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  • Originally posted by whitewave View Post
    Very true. Just like men (and women) of ALL races right now do not have 'it' together. AND I'd say there are plenty of Native men that DO have it together as well. I think there are plenty here who will agree with me on that.
    Plumes? Superndngirl? Am I right?? I know I am because the very few men I personally know that DO have it together ARE Native men.
    Yes, very true. There are men who do have it together, but most of them are taken. The few that are not, like one I know, would rather be single and have fun.

    thats what u get 4 breaking my heart...

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    • Originally posted by Mud_Woman View Post
      Zeke . . .

      You sure are the hot item here
      It happens. No worries!

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      • Originally posted by whitewave View Post
        Is there no grey area??
        I tend to think, "no."

        I mean you either ARE personally responsible for your lot and success in life, or you are NOT.

        If folks desire to continue blaming the Great White Father for everything that comes down the pike, well, "it's inherently limiting."

        If there is a cycle, we are responsible for perpetuating it. Conversely, it is OUR responsibility to break it.

        Believing anything else continues our existence as mere wards.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Zeke View Post
          I tend to think, "no."
          Well that's your opinion....and THAT is precisely why we will never see eye to eye....which is fine.
          "To ignore injustice is to allow it"
          sigpic
          Peace, Love, and many blessings,
          White Wave

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Zeke View Post
            That's crap.

            GROW UP.

            The fault lies with the folks who commit the self-abusive behavior.

            I'll bet you romanticize ritual suicide, too.

            Perhaps 200 years ago, your argument had merit. TODAY? No way.
            You're a fool - the situation of substance abuse with indigenous people is a DIRECT result of the colonisation. Don't make me write out a long spiel about how and why.

            Is it just a coincidence it's higher for native peeps, than any other race?

            You must really have been abused by natives when you grew up... or was adopted into a white family with plenty of money.

            You've got no concept or understanding of substance abuse with ANY race, and definitely need to read up on what causes the abuse for indigenous people.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by othellobloke View Post
              You're a fool - the situation of substance abuse with indigenous people is a DIRECT result of the colonisation.
              (sigh) The situation of substance abuse among Natives is a direct result of them abusing substances.

              Originally posted by othellobloke View Post
              Don't make me write out a long spiel about how and why.
              Go ahead. I'd adore seeing your defeatist, "poor me," and "we can't do any better" rhetoric.

              Start typing...

              Comment


              • Resposibility

                Originally posted by Zeke View Post
                I tend to think, "no."

                I mean you either ARE personally responsible for your lot and success in life, or you are NOT.

                If folks desire to continue blaming the Great White Father for everything that comes down the pike, well, "it's inherently limiting."

                If there is a cycle, we are responsible for perpetuating it. Conversely, it is OUR responsibility to break it.

                Believing anything else continues our existence as mere wards.
                I agree that there are no real grey areas,,,,What is sad is that many refuse to accept that they only have one real power,,that is the power of choice,,the power to chose. All too often we want someone to blame and that is our way of empowering the other with our power of choice. What is past we can not change,,,,but we can change the future. And it is in the choices we make here today. today I chose to live clean and sober. today I chose to accept the ways of the ancients. Today I chose to build towards the future. Today I chose not to hate. Today I chose to help a brother or sister up from thier death. Today I chose to serve my people. And today I chose to be a giver of life and not death. We as a peoples are all too often making the same mistakes of the outsiders,,we war amoungst ourselves just as they war amoungst themselves. We chew eachother up and spit us out like bile. We see it all the time with the whites in europe,,the blacks here in the americas,,,the latinos in the cental americas,,, the africans inafrica,,,and the semitics in the middleast. This is what is our downfall. this is what keeps us from being a strong and vibrant peoples.
                There is away to re-claim back our heratage,,,a way to re-claim back the lands. It is through the dance,,,the language,( I so wish I knew mine!!!),,, working the land,, even using the us gov money to buy and annex lands back to our lands,,extending our territories again,,,, to become self sufficient and learn to make a native economy. Here in WA state the Muckelshoots have even thier own liscense plates,,,cutting out the state and the feds out of their powers,,,hehehe,,and we as a people even by the federal laws have the right to form our own currency,,,, we have the power to form our own economy and make it blossom. this forum has gone way beyond the issue of native dating/marrying outsiders,, it in truth is cutting deep into what is really hurting us,,, the division,,,the warring,,the abuseiveness that has been adopted from our enemies. I went to the Sobriety Pow Wow two weeks ago at Muckelshoot and was dismayed that not as many came as the year before. The pride was diminished. Next year in the last weekend of July is the 10th annual Sobriety Pow Wow and I encourage that all who really love our peoples to come out here and not just show support,,,but to even be an encouragement to our peoples that we do not have to be divided nor succumb to the disease that plagues our peoples. We can rise again and trust me in this,,,it is not by war,,but by cooperation one with another. Peace!!!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Zeke View Post



                  Now, if you must, you can be the "proud warrior" who refused to change his way of life, in 1890, as the world changed around him -- with no hope of the "old way" returning -- in an effort to be some modern day, ridiculous, windmill-tilting, isolationist and forlorn hero: but you better understand something.

                  That guy died.

                  And so did the children who were indoctrinated into such determinate thought.

                  I seriously hope your not pissing on who I think your pissing on!!

                  Comment


                  • I believe for a marriage to be strong we need the same spiritual belief system, be physically/sexually compatible, mentally compatible, be a helpmate to each other and trust each other…

                    Good luck finding all that!

                    If I follow Native Traditional beliefs the man I am with should too or we’re probably headed for turbulent waters. That is the same for Natives that follow the Jesus Way; if your spouse doesn’t there could be issues down the road.

                    I was married to a Dutch man for many years and he and his family always thought I was involved in some weird religion. They were Catholic; didn’t understand our ceremonies.

                    Probably not many white people follow our beliefs b/c they don’t understand them. Many of the ones I meet, that think they follow Native ways are mostly into New Age stuff.

                    That is their path; I am not knocking it, that’s their business.

                    The point for me is, if you follow Ndn beliefs you're probably going to end up with another Ndn... or it's going to drive you crazy.
                    tchrcoun.blogspot.com

                    No one "makes us" feel anything, we choose to feel, act, and react the way we do. ~~Nino's Philosophy

                    I am not the Creator and therefore cannot "save" anyone. The path one walks is between the individual and the creator; not to be judged by me. ~TurtleWoman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ariesfire View Post
                      I agree that there are no real grey areas,,,,What is sad is that many refuse to accept that they only have one real power,,that is the power of choice,,the power to chose. All too often we want someone to blame and that is our way of empowering the other with our power of choice. What is past we can not change,,,,but we can change the future.
                      Concur in all respects.

                      Of course, to change the future, one must have the actual ability to grow.

                      Such appears to not always be in abundance.

                      "Fear."

                      Comment


                      • Well......... I think............... that any native person who marrys a non-native should have their spouse automatically, officially, without any recourse, on their wedding day, enrolled in their husbands/wifes tribe/nation and recieve all benefits, percaps, tanning(if required) and all tribal members should accept (lovingly embrace) these new Indians as one of their own. Maybe even the spouses families too as in-laws would now be extended family. (provided they smoke the peacepipe)

                        This would end any further arguments about who should marry who.

                        Comment


                        • Here I am, a German with accidently having some Native American genes inside, not even speaking your language fluidly.
                          This thread made me think, although I haven't had the time to read every post yet today.

                          My opinion- and it is about opinions, right?- is:
                          When two people decide to marry,
                          they should not try to become one circle,
                          each of them should be 'complete' before they marry.
                          This way they are able to accept the other, able to love,
                          able to make decisions they really want to make...
                          To me it makes no difference what blood is inside,
                          but to me it is important that my 'going to be hubby'
                          accepts me and my past, doesn't make me responsible for
                          his mistakes and visa versa, accepts my children and my parents and of course
                          'my' history as well. Same for him. Of course I will want to learn!
                          I wish your culture will stay alive forever and always,
                          but marrying just among your skin color doesn't mean that
                          your culture will survive that way.
                          One is biology, the other is heart-soul-mind...
                          To me this question can be answered like this one:
                          Is it colder outside than in the night time?
                          Follow your heart. When the heritage of your 'going to be partner for life' is so very important, then you have already answered your question on your own. Could you be happy with anybody else?
                          And about having sex with x or y - that happens - in a way that you usually allow and choose it to happen.
                          And now I'm heading off for my work, read more later. Have a great day everyone*g*

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kiwehnzii View Post
                            Well......... I think............... that any native person who marrys a non-native should have their spouse automatically, officially, without any recourse, on their wedding day, enrolled in their husbands/wifes tribe/nation and recieve all benefits, percaps, tanning(if required) and all tribal members should accept (lovingly embrace) these new Indians as one of their own. Maybe even the spouses families too as in-laws would now be extended family. (provided they smoke the peacepipe)

                            This would end any further arguments about who should marry who.
                            I don't disagree: although the idea of extended family could be too far in some respects.

                            Back in the day, when someone became part of the tribe, they became part of the tribe.

                            Comment


                            • Provided they smoke the peacepipe. Ayyee.

                              Comment


                              • Okay, my two cents worth. Not that it's all that much.LOL

                                That just depends on who, when and where. Now, let me explain please.

                                I know of many non-native's who marry natives and they are very happy and they both honor each other's lives and the way that they are. They share their lives together and it seems to work.

                                But what about all those who are out there looking to hook up with someone (anyone) just because they are native? I have seen alot of this. Both men and women who go to pow wow's in the hopes of meeting and getting together with a native person. It gets really bad. I have actually had people come to me and ask if I know of a native person who is single who would be interested in them. Now, that's not right.

                                What about the non-natives who marry a native and then become these great teacher's and experts to the point that they exclude or push away their own spouse who really is native? I have seen this as well and that gets really ugly to a point where the one spouse will totally take over the other spouses life and tell them how to live and when they need to do things and when they don't.

                                I have seen both of these situations more then I care to think about it. But either way if you meet someone and there is a connection (a true connection), then should it matter if they are native, non-native or anything else? Two people who truely fall in love should be together. I have seen many families and tribes accept the non-native spouse as a part of them wether or not they have native blood based on the marriage and children who come along.

                                Comment

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