What do you think of CIB and Tribal cards?

[seaotter]

Okay was repling to Annie Deer's - things to think about at pow wows, and got off on a tangent- so here goes.

The Dawes Act. Was supposed to "help" the natives by assilmilating them into the white culture. It broke up reservations into family plots and handed them out to each male head of household. And if there were more plots than tribal head of households, then those were put up for sale to pioneers! Then it held the land in trust for 75 years if the person was full, since they weren't as intelligent and could be swindled out of their land. Mixed bloods could sell right away, since they had non native blood and were obviously more intelligent. Then it brougt in outside experts to determine who was full or mixed. They measured heads, hair, teeth. Of course many of the tribes that were hit by this turned out to be mostly mixed (imagine that!). Our tribe has only a few acres left because 1 family returned some to the tribe. Most people lost their lands in a few years. And tribes that were not as lucky as mine, actually got assilmilated, and declared not a tribe anymore. If the Dawes act had been up and running a few more years, the Miami would not be recognised either. So there are people from tribes that were dissolved by the government.
Guess what I'm aiming at is fear. The government has already tried to eliminate Native people by rule of law once. And given some of the attitudes out there, I can see it happening again.
I don't think the government should be allowed to hand out CIB cards. I think the Tribes should say these are our members - and keep all the other stuff to themselves. I can see the possiblity that one day the gov will annouce that this tribe doesn't have this many full bloods, it's not a tribe anymore. I find it scary and disturbing.
What say everyone else?

[sokoki_wolf]

Okay was repling to Annie Deer's - things to think about at pow wows, and got off on a tangent- so here goes.

The Dawes Act. Was supposed to "help" the natives by assilmilating them into the white culture. It broke up reservations into family plots and handed them out to each male head of household. And if there were more plots than tribal head of households, then those were put up for sale to pioneers! Then it held the land in trust for 75 years if the person was full, since they weren't as intelligent and could be swindled out of their land. Mixed bloods could sell right away, since they had non native blood and were obviously more intelligent. Then it brougt in outside experts to determine who was full or mixed. They measured heads, hair, teeth. Of course many of the tribes that were hit by this turned out to be mostly mixed (imagine that!). Our tribe has only a few acres left because 1 family returned some to the tribe. Most people lost their lands in a few years. And tribes that were not as lucky as mine, actually got assilmilated, and declared not a tribe anymore. If the Dawes act had been up and running a few more years, the Miami would not be recognised either. So there are people from tribes that were dissolved by the government.
Guess what I'm aiming at is fear. The government has already tried to eliminate Native people by rule of law once. And given some of the attitudes out there, I can see it happening again.
I don't think the government should be allowed to hand out CIB cards. I think the Tribes should say these are our members - and keep all the other stuff to themselves. I can see the possiblity that one day the gov will annouce that this tribe doesn't have this many full bloods, it's not a tribe anymore. I find it scary and disturbing.
What say everyone else?

i couldnt agree with you more...i am tribally enrolled and will never carry any form of US govt id...thats a seperate nation's govt imposing their laws on sovereign nations...not much different than what happen in south africa ..but then again south africa got their model for apartheid from the us reservation system...it is all just another form of control and i firmly believe its a design to as you said one day say theres no more ndn's left...but thats IF we let them

[Comanche74]

CIB cards

I agree with you on this.

Before the "Government" ever started their CDIB cards and the agency (BIA). Indians did not need cards to tell them that they were Indian!!
Come on! a piece of paper to prove who you are!! that's like being born with an owners manual; what are we Cars??
For god's sake were are humans...and no other race has to prove their ethnisity..execpt for the American Indian...we are not sub-human...we are not lower than them we are all equal human beings...only our cultures, traditions and beliefs differ...

I am not tribally enrolled..because my family has a problem with accruate names on birth certs..i.e. (my grandfather's (RIP) and mine) both have our stepfathers' listed as birth father which through DNA testing I disproved in 2001 after finding my real father...he is 1/4 Comanche which makes me 1/8 Comanche. But according to the "Government" we are not!! So because of a peice of paper my rights as a mixblood American Indain have been revoked due to "government beuracraps" as my Grandfather called them...
My mom's family was denied enrollment to the Eastern Band Cherokees in 1906 due to "paperwork" but one family member was allowed to enroll (Sarah Mashburn) so her descendants are also enrolled. The family was denied becuase it was believed that we were not Cherokee, but Cheraw Indian, and some family members had been assimilated so long that they thought they were white...In fear of losing the land they had...
My mom's dad is of Cherokee blood, His father (Cherokee/German) and his mother (who passed in 1932 N.C.,when he was two ), both Cherokee and they even spoke the Cherokee language. Back then speaking the language was only if you were emersed with the people....not many books or audio cd's to learn from....my grandfather still speaks it but is his second language now.

I don't want a CDIB card for land or benefits...I know who I am and will teach my children who they are...They are of Cherokee/Comanche/ and European descent...

However...it seems to me that I have to prove it to other Indians for who I am if I don't have a CDIB card in the first place....you don't see people carry cards to prove that they are African American, or even white, so why should American Indians be different.....

[Blackbear]

he is 1/4 Comanche which makes me 1/8 Comanche. But according to the "Government" we are not!! So because of a peice of paper my rights as a mixblood American Indain have been revoked due to "government beuracraps" as my Grandfather called them...

Which "government"? The USA or the Comanche? Like the blood quantum or not, the indian nations do choose their own criteria and can change their criteria as well... so were you turned down by the comanche government or for a CDIB which states you have to be at least 1/4?

My mom's family was denied enrollment to the Eastern Band Cherokees in 1906 due to "paperwork" but one family member was allowed to enroll (Sarah Mashburn) so her descendants are also enrolled. The family was denied becuase it was believed that we were not Cherokee, but Cheraw Indian, and some family members had been assimilated so long that they thought they were white...In fear of losing the land they had...

You know what.. I got a hunch you should present your paperwork and such to the Lumbees. If EBC is saying you are cheraw, then this is probably what they mean. The Lumbee's history includes a time when it was said that their ancestors were cherokee and were called cherokees, and although there might actually be some cherokee in the makeup that is Lumbee, they were not cherokee people.

[WhoMe]

CDIB cards are issued by "federally recognized tribes."

It is these tribes that determine their own blood quantum and criteria for membership.

If there were not "tribally issued CDIB cards" anybody could be American Indian simply by claiming it.

If the US did not establish strict criteria for federal recognition, over 200 Cherokee "tribes" would also be American Indian.

[Blackbear]

Whome, you should also add... at their convenience.

[WhoMe]

Whome, you should also add... at their convenience.

That is an interesting point, if you're talking about tribes.

Some tribes such as the Shakopee Mdewankanton in Minnesota have simply closed their membership and will not allow new members in.

Others such as the Pechanga in California, have begun cleaning house and "dismembering" individuals on their rolls who claim tribal membership from a decendent who was not of their tribe to begin with.

And, others such as the Cherokee Nation (in Oklahoma) whose tribal chief has taken a stand against the Dawes roll in saying if your NOT Cherokee, then a referendum election should be held to determine if you will be allowed to be a member.

[Blackbear]

nope.. I was responding to...

If there were not "tribally issued CDIB cards" anybody could be American Indian simply by claiming it.

sorry I was'nt clearer on that LOL

[seaotter]

Yeah the tribes determine who is a member. But it is the Feds that issue the blood cards. Met 1 lady at IAIA, and she was listed as 1/4. She was full, but 1/4 of 4 tribes. I really think it would be better for the tribes to issue tribal cards only. Keep all the other stuff where it cannot be seen. They will use it against us sooner or later.
And as for people waiting in the wings. The government has messed with the tribes so much, to straigten it out will take a long time. The Miami had several "sister" tribes, a bit like the council fires of the "sioux". One of the first Miami that the whites met was actually a Wea, one of the closet of these people. When the Miami were herded for the 4th time into Oklahoma, what was left of the Wea and some of the others were stuck with what was left of the Illinni and the gov created the Peoria tribe. Many tribes out there don't even get to use their own names. It's a mess. Heck the name Miami isn't something we had orginally and the real name has been lost for some time.
I guess what the rant is about is that no cure for a problem or any issue can come from someone who does not understand the issue. And like it or not if you are not Native (like us or hate us) you do not really know what and who we are. It is like someone looking in a window, they are still standing outside. Just like men dont get women, yadda yadda. We have to find a way to be the ones making Native policy, rather than allowing it to be made at us. It also concerns me that the cards are used by many as another way to get us to fight amongst ourselves. I remember someone telling me that no one without a card would be allowed in his pow wow, and then the guy next to me saying - hey isn't he a X? he's only state recognised he's not a real indian.
Oh boy.

[apacheheart]

This is always going to be a problem.....

With all the many good reasons to get your "Indian"card,there are twice as many not-so-good reasons to get it.Too many folks are doing it for the money and benefits.You don't know how many times I have heard"I need to get my paperwork in order so I can get money for college,or a loan from the tribe,or a casino job"how about"cause I want to be an asset to my people,give something back to them,and be able to help break the cycle of oppression that has kept us the second class citizens everyone thinks we are.Greed and selfishness has been the downfall of many peoples,and I don't want to see any more of this and what it causes.It's just too painful to see people who should be banding together being divided over a buck....or how much NDN blood you have.I am a proud Native Man,and even though I'm eligible for enrollment,I never did.So many poor folks on many rez's across the country.I would sure hate to know that I'm taking food out of some baby's mouth or keeping someone's granny from buying herself some clothes,all because I felt I could cash in on what I am.So, none of y'all worry...I won't be enrolling anytime soon!!lol....keep smilin"1

[seaotter]

When elders tell us that mankind has a "fatal flaw" and that is arrogence.
That it must be guarded against at all times. I try but I'm human, which means flawed and imperfect. So I fall down sometimes. Try not to make it a habit.
I hope we can all find ways to help our people. Everything seems to be in limbo, there are no clear, strong visions of how to proceed.

[CHEROSAGE]

I have many friends that are Miami and Peoria in the Miami OK area. I have some friends who as mentioned are of several nations, Full Blood but not much more than 1/4 or even 1/8 of any one tribe. I have Stomp danced with those of these Tribes. The Miamis' have a Stomp Dance the first of the year.

I have mixed feelings on the issue of the CDIB and Tribal Card. I hate that we are the only people in the U.S. who must carry an ID to prove we are NDN. The Blacks don't have to prove they are Black even if they are 1/1billionth Black. I know that in our history Blacks were treated poorly and may have been bred as Live Stock(so to speak). I also know that many Non-Blacks inter-bred( again so to speak) with with Black folks. This was done whether while in Slavery or not. A White(Caucasion) doesn't need to show a birth Certificate to prove they are White Non Hispanic, as the Race catagory request. If I'm not mistaken in history if someone was of any Black heritage they were Black even if it was 1/1billionth.

I have enrollment, My Wife has enrolled, our Children were enrolled at birth, but for what reason. Is it so we can possess Eagle Feathers (as I have), register for school(as I did), get casino money(not us), or just about any reason. I myself could care less about most of this. I have heard on here that people just want to be NDN to get health benies, casino money, oil money, school money, etc. I have used my NDNship to get an NDN Health Stipend for school and I sure did appreciate it, but where I live we don't have NDN health services. I could have gone real hungry otherwise. One of my Cuzs was enrolled Siminole from birth and didn't get anything from it but just self satisfaction and memories. I personaly don't see a need for an ID card other than just a way of being better than thou, I'm a Fed and You're not, simply a status card. (now that just doesn't seem very good when you put it that way.) I believe that we have many friends who are NDN but for what ever reason their Families were not authorised enrollment. I have been told many were denied because they just didn't live in the right community. Just got to love that Dawes Act.

Enough of the soap box, in any way, I'm just plain Proud to be NDN even though not a Full Blood of any one Tribe.

[SDSIOUXGIRL]

Yeah the tribes determine who is a member. But it is the Feds that issue the blood cards. Met 1 lady at IAIA, and she was listed as 1/4. She was full, but 1/4 of 4 tribes. I really think it would be better for the tribes to issue tribal cards only. Keep all the other stuff where it cannot be seen. They will use it against us sooner or later.
And as for people waiting in the wings. The government has messed with the tribes so much, to straigten it out will take a long time. The Miami had several "sister" tribes, a bit like the council fires of the "sioux". One of the first Miami that the whites met was actually a Wea, one of the closet of these people. When the Miami were herded for the 4th time into Oklahoma, what was left of the Wea and some of the others were stuck with what was left of the Illinni and the gov created the Peoria tribe. Many tribes out there don't even get to use their own names. It's a mess. Heck the name Miami isn't something we had orginally and the real name has been lost for some time.
I guess what the rant is about is that no cure for a problem or any issue can come from someone who does not understand the issue. And like it or not if you are not Native (like us or hate us) you do not really know what and who we are. It is like someone looking in a window, they are still standing outside. Just like men dont get women, yadda yadda. We have to find a way to be the ones making Native policy, rather than allowing it to be made at us. It also concerns me that the cards are used by many as another way to get us to fight amongst ourselves. I remember someone telling me that no one without a card would be allowed in his pow wow, and then the guy next to me saying - hey isn't he a X? he's only state recognised he's not a real indian.
Oh boy.

MY BROTHER HAS A TRIBAL I.D. CARD, AND EVEN THOUGH HE'S A FULL BLOODED NDN, IT SAYS HE'S ONLY 1/2! THE REASON FOR THAT IS BECAUSE MY MOM IS SIOUX AND HIS FATHER IS CHEROKEE. WE ARE ENROLLED MEMBERS OF THE CROW CREEK SIOUX TRIBE. I JUST RECENTLY GOT MY TRIBAL CARD, BUT NOT TO HAVE TO PROVE TO SOMEBODY THAT I'M NATIVE AMERICAN. I AM ENROLLED BECAUSE MY MOTHER ENROLLED US KIDS, WHEN WE WERE BABIES. I DON'T GET ANY KIND OF CASINO MONEY (DUE TO THE FACT PEOPLE HAVE EMBEZZLED IT), AND REALLY DON'T CARE IF I DID. SOMETIMES I GET MAD WHEN I GO TO MY REZ, AND GET MEAN LOOKS (MOSTLY BECAUSE I'M A MIXED BLOOD), AND THAT'S WHEN I WANT TO FLASH THAT CARD IN THEIR FACE, AND PROVE THAT I'M NATIVE. BUT THAT WOULD BE CHILDISH! I KNOW WHO I AM, AND I KNOW I DON'T NEED TO PROVE IT TO ANYONE. THE ONLY PERSON WHO MADE ME FEEL LIKE I DIDN'T BELONG WAS MY MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER. ON A DAILY BASIS, SHE CHALLENGED MY INTELLIGENCE, AND MY WILLPOWER.BUT I ALWAYS OUTSMARTED HER, AND NEVER LET HER BREAK MY SPIRIT.

[heavens]

With all the many good reasons to get your "Indian"card,there are twice as many not-so-good reasons to get it.Too many folks are doing it for the money and benefits.You don't know how many times I have heard"I need to get my paperwork in order so I can get money for college,or a loan from the tribe,or a casino job"how about"cause I want to be an asset to my people,give something back to them,and be able to help break the cycle of oppression that has kept us the second class citizens everyone thinks we are.Greed and selfishness has been the downfall of many peoples,and I don't want to see any more of this and what it causes.It's just too painful to see people who should be banding together being divided over a buck....or how much NDN blood you have.I am a proud Native Man,and even though I'm eligible for enrollment,I never did.So many poor folks on many rez's across the country.I would sure hate to know that I'm taking food out of some baby's mouth or keeping someone's granny from buying herself some clothes,all because I felt I could cash in on what I am.So, none of y'all worry...I won't be enrolling anytime soon!!lol....keep smilin"1

Dear apacheheart,
Hello.
What a kind-hearted soul you are!.
This forum is LUCKY to have you .
~heavens~

[Blackbear]

You know.. you don't have to have a card of any kind... just a letter from your tribal official on nation letterhead stateing who you are and that they recognize you. I have a tribal card (that needs to be renewed, it's so tattered now) but I also have more current letters from our tribal clerk. So if you don't want a CDIB, then get a letter from your tribal official/council/clerk... whatever that person who had the authority is called LOL.