is the issue of wannabes,fakes etc important to you??

[Rezkat33az]

Another one that gets on my nerves is 'Princess' Pale Moon. She has been going on for years as a wannabe. I really don't think she is NDN at all, especially since she calls herself Princess. I've heard of many dogs named Princess, but not an NDN. Here is alink to an article I found on her, sorry I haven't found anything more recent...
the People's Paths home page! - Articles - Princess Pale Moon Gets the Boot

[Rezkat33az]

another link to the Princess Pale Moon weirdo:
Pale Moon Madness Tale

[Rezkat33az]

Thats how the aliens, i.e. Europeans, were able to take over our land & kill us off. We havn't been able to come together as one group of NDNs-all nations- & get anything resolved or solved. They divided & tried like heck to conquer us....

[Zeke]

Thats how the aliens, i.e. Europeans, were able to take over our land & kill us off.

Oh, it wasn't Utopia, before they arrived. There's no immediate reason to believe that, left to our own devices, things wouldn't have turned out in a similar manner.

We havn't been able to come together as one group of NDNs-all nations- & get anything resolved or solved.

Which is, of course, our fault. For example, this entire thread was started by an individual -- eventually banned for reasons unknown but you have to EARN such, here -- whose entire forlorn existence rests upon the idea of acting as Indian Police: basing an entire ideology upon how much $$$ can be made available to those who recognize only the conqueror as their vetting body, for capitalistic benefit.

DUMB. And a prime example of militants among us who foster such separatist isolationism for their own, personal, gain. (Sort of like Custer's scouts.)

They divided & tried like heck to conquer us....

To a vast degree, specifically related to the former, WE did it.

"Wannabe's, fakes, etc." are only an issue to those whose livelihood, validity or identity are threatened by them. (Then, of course, those folk squeal like the proverbial stuck pig.)

The rest of us don't really care what white folks listen to or spend their money on.

It's not our target audience.

[SuzzeQ4]

Oh, it wasn't Utopia, before they arrived. There's no immediate reason to believe that, left to our own devices, things wouldn't have turned out in a similar manner.



Which is, of course, our fault. For example, this entire thread was started by an individual -- eventually banned for reasons unknown but you have to EARN such, here -- whose entire forlorn existence rests upon the idea of acting as Indian Police: basing an entire ideology upon how much $$$ can be made available to those who recognize only the conqueror as their vetting body, for capitalistic benefit.

DUMB. And a prime example of militants among us who foster such separatist isolationism for their own, personal, gain. (Sort of like Custer's scouts.)



To a vast degree, specifically related to the former, WE did it.

"Wannabe's, fakes, etc." are only an issue to those whose livelihood, validity or identity are threatened by them. (Then, of course, those folk squeal like the proverbial stuck pig.)

The rest of us don't really care what white folks listen to or spend their money on.

It's not our target audience.

Just because it wasn't utopia, doesn't mean that taken our land and all that followed was ok, and it;s not like they created utopia either.

It maybe "our fault" that we haven't all come together as all Nations but come on Zeke thats a lot of Nations, and tell me one race that has come together with all the Nations within their race. So big deal, I think we don't do a half bad job. We regularly come together, celebrate together dispite the differences in our beliefs, & because of our similarities. Imagine if the jews, christians and muslims could focus on their similarities and shared origins rather then their differences what a more peaceful world it would be...yep they could learn a lot from us.

No Zeke they divided and conqured, sure a few of our own aided, but not the vast majority and as for the wannabes I think it is a problem cause we got a lot of our people who were raised by whites go looking to learn their culture and get dragged in by these wannabes who need an NDN who knows squat to validate them,,,I've seen it and its sad, also I think the paler NDN's out there would feel less like they needed to explain themselves if there were no wannabes.

[MtnLiving]

I get po'd at people like Lynn Andrews, et,all, that act out a "part" that they've created for themselves at the expense of others and their falling prey to it, yes. However, I don't get angry when someone claims to have a native connection somewhere in their history and are wanting to research it and become more connected to it.

Don't pretend to be something you're not. If it's a real connection and you want to be a part of it, great, take the knowledge, make it your own, but make it personal.....don't capitalize on it.

[Zeke]

No Zeke they divided and conqured...

That's romanticist rhetoric.

We failed to act -- or remain -- together, even in circumstances wherein it was immediately obvious that it was in our best interest to act in unison.

We, willingly, divided and, as a direct result, they conquered.

Still happens, today.

We, have to grow up and pull our collective heads from our posteriors. Instead, we're all -- individually -- begging for table scraps.

Get together, and you can demand a SEAT at the table. But, of course, the apologists amongst us only desire entitlements, not opportunities.

Screw 'em.

[SuzzeQ4]

That's romanticist rhetoric.

We failed to act -- or remain -- together, even in circumstances wherein it was immediately obvious that it was in our best interest to act in unison.

We, willingly, divided and, as a direct result, they conquered.

Still happens, today.

We, have to grow up and pull our collective heads from our posteriors. Instead, we're all -- individually -- begging for table scraps.

Get together, and you can demand a SEAT at the table. But, of course, the apologists amongst us only desire entitlements, not opportunities.

Screw 'em.

No Zeke We acted, we fought with all we had, many of us still fought when it was obvious we would not win, many still fight. We were not one people who divided amoungst ourselves. We were 500 different Nations. Certainly many had allies, and some had confederacy's, but we did pull together. Did all 500 Nations pull together as one? No, how could they have, but many pulled together with their Neighbour Nations. Did enemies suddenly join hands and sing?...not all but some in fact did and that in itself is a remarkable act of putting aside differences to fight for ones people. We may not have won, but we did not totally lose, if we had they would not have needed to make treaties with us. The only reason they didn't have an absolute win is because of all that I have mentioned so far.

Do we need to pull together now? Sure, is it happening? I dopn't know about the US, but up here chiefs meet with other chiefs in their province (which is a whole lot bigger then a state) and decide what they need to do together when dealing with the province, sometimes up here we pull together all across canada. Sometimes they join land claims for a stronger fight as the Algonquins did on their latest land claim. Does every single NDN up here get along, and agree in ideology?...don't be ridiculous, the thing is though that change can happen as long as many get together. And many do.

This is not romantisized bull Zeke, theis is history and this is pride in who we are.

Where are you comming from? Are you so beaten down that you look so terribly on your roots? So beaten down that you want to assimilate and be "just like them"? How do live in a life where you look at your people and say "its all our fault, thank god the white people have a better way for us"?

If I am totally wrong about you..and I really hope I am...then tell me explain to me where your pride in you, your roots and your history.

[NorthofAda]

Also I think the paler NDN's out there would feel less like they needed to explain themselves if there were no wannabes.

I agree!

[beeleaf]

and as for the wannabes I think it is a problem cause we got a lot of our people who were raised by whites go looking to learn their culture and get dragged in by these wannabes who need an NDN who knows squat to validate them,,,I've seen it and its sad, also I think the paler NDN's out there would feel less like they needed to explain themselves if there were no wannabes.

Have seen this as well. This paler NDN has also been approached by a coupla people with some "suspect" ideas. In both cases, they were not in the neighborhoods of the tribes they claimed to receive their "gifts" from. Wonder why?

It bothers me to see people misusing things they should be protecting. Some of the other stuff lumped in, not so much.

[Disappearing Hawk]

my sister got a detention in school a few years back... she was doodling on her paper, and she wrote "wannabes=eww".The teacher claimed to be cherokee, which my sis didnt know.

[Gache]

Zeke is referring to the historical fact that there is not a tribe out there that didnt have a faction that either betrayed the ones resisting by siding with the whites or just didn't join in. Take the sioux nation for example out of the 20,000 that were around in the 1870s only 3000 were actively resisting, the rest were begging for scraps at longshanks table.

Or another example it wasn't whites who tracked down apaches, it was apaches. I can go on with each and every tribe.

Zeke is obviously more than proud of his ancestry, obviously so because he doesn't want to be a part of the system of begging we have today.

[SuzzeQ4]

Zeke is obviously more than proud of his ancestry, obviously so because he doesn't want to be a part of the system of begging we have today.

Plenty of us are proud, believe in their traditions and don't beg for scraps! Asking for whats due is fair enough, we shouldn't roll over like dogs saying "oh thats Ok you can keep that too" But that is different then begging for scraps.

[IlnuSoldier]

What I've been saying..

Again, I agree with you Zeke...


That said :


What I am saying is not that I am ashamed of my roots or anything...

I am in fact probably OVER-proud and overly sensative about my roots...

... when you love and respect something so much, it is hard to balance on the line of being "healthy" and "zealous"...


anyway..


Because I love and respect my elders, family, etc.etc... I want to make sure that we don't degrade into a bunch of hypocritical beggars who spend all their time pointing fingers and demanding to be given something

rather than

standing up and just making it happen.


Wannabes don't mean anything to me... in fact, they are a good source of income if you'd use your brain and actually figure out how to USE them instead of abuse them, eh ?

I don't know about you, but white wannabes are the "sacred animal" of the modern day Indian...

you know why ?

Cause you can use everypart of them without wasting anything.

You can use their money to pay your bills
You can use their social pull to get your goals accomplished

LoL... every Indian should have a herd of wannabes... you know ?

Worst than wannabes are all these beggars sitting round complaining and making an over-all spirit of negativity spread throughout the tribes...

This sense of being a victim....

I don't want my two sons growing up feeling like victims..

... we walk in the shadows of ancient gods--- those old timers whom we hear about in the stories handed down...

Every tribe has them... those old timers who we all wish we had the nuts to be like..

Well... I DO want my sons to be like them.

I do not want them to "perserve" their way of life... I want them to live it !

None of this sitting around and talking about it.. I want them to just get out there and do it !

The Lnu people are warriors--- I know my history. So, my sons will grow up as warriors-- end of story.

Like Zeke said... they won't sit around blaming "wannabes" for their problems... my sons WILL have a seat at the table..

Hell... They will sit at the head of table.

Why ? Because I know that the old timers would have done the same.

Soldiers...not beggars.

Im not saying to pick up arms in some kinda of insane AIM-like venture..

I'm saying to get your mind and direction clear and focused and then get your goals accomplished via your own power, prestige, and resources.

[Josiah]

my sister got a detention in school a few years back... she was doodling on her paper, and she wrote "wannabes=eww".The teacher claimed to be cherokee, which my sis didnt know.

Carefull there
Many claim
But 76,000 here in Oklahoma IS...