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Eagle Feathers?!?!?!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Coyot_In_The_House
    I sort of know how Sitting Bull felt when he stated...."I'm the last Indian"

    Granted there are several answers, but why do we give so much Authority to the federal government? Who gives them the right to create and manipulate law as they see fit? Are they the great justification? Has anyone read 1984 lately?

    Oh yes there's a flip side to that coin.....

    Maybe it's a good thing? Maybe "Big Brother" should keep "his children' in check? Just maybe there are too many "unworthy" Eagle Feather carriers out there???

    Although i'm a member of the "Book Club" I'm entitled to my "book"! Gimme my imaginary rights.....What's next air or water....?
    Riparian rights (water rights) are very real in areas of the country that are arid - so that one is already covered, Yote.

    Air rights (in regards to real estate) is also just as real as mineral rights (from wiki-pedia for clarity and brevity):

    Air rights are a type of development right in real estate. Generally speaking, owning or renting land or a building gives one the right to use and develop the empty space above the property. Those rights are air rights. Supposedly, this legal concept is based on an ancient Latin saying: Cuius est solum, ejus est usque ad caelum et ad inferos ("To whomever owns the land, shall own the earth to its center and up to the heavens").

    It is all nonsense to me because I never have understood - how can anyone own the land?

    Comment


    • #17
      I like this quote....

      Originally posted by between2worlds
      Riparian rights (water rights) are very real in areas of the country that are arid - so that one is already covered, Yote.

      Air rights (in regards to real estate) is also just as real as mineral rights (from wiki-pedia for clarity and brevity):

      Air rights are a type of development right in real estate. Generally speaking, owning or renting land or a building gives one the right to use and develop the empty space above the property. Those rights are air rights. Supposedly, this legal concept is based on an ancient Latin saying: Cuius est solum, ejus est usque ad caelum et ad inferos ("To whomever owns the land, shall own the earth to its center and up to the heavens").

      It is all nonsense to me because I never have understood - how can anyone own the land?
      "One does not own the land upon which the people walk...."

      Tashunka Witko
      "She also has a very soft skin. The only trouble with snake women is they copulate with horses, which makes them strange to me. She say's she doesn't. That's why I call her "Doesn't Like Horses". But, of course, she's lying."

      Comment


      • #18
        Look at it another way. Possession of eagle feathers is one right - maybe the only one - that the feds are trying to make sure stays with Indians and only Indians. How often do you see the feds working to KEEP something Indian?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by between2worlds
          Supposedly, this legal concept is based on an ancient Latin saying: Cuius est solum, ejus est usque ad caelum et ad inferos ("To whomever owns the land, shall own the earth to its center and up to the heavens").

          It is all nonsense to me because I never have understood - how can anyone own the land?
          Hey,

          So according to this law then, every time the moon orbits and goes over my house then its mine right? Hmm I wonder how much moonfront property is appraised at these days eh? Lets not stop there, lets go to Mars, heck all the way to Pluto. And if all the above is true then I want free satelite TV every time that sucker goes over. LOL.

          Seriously I feel like these feather laws, although guiesd under the attempt to preserve a species were aimed at us. They killed our food source and gave us small pox blankets, put our kids in mission schools and force english on them, take our language well why not finish us off and take our spirits too.

          My mother is enrolled, and legally she can sign up for feathers. She decided against is, saying that, even though I could use them for a time, they would get taken when she crossed over, since I am not an enrolled member, they cannot be passed to me, according to the laws right? Secondly, when you sign that paper, (and we all know how NDNs feel about signing papers right) it gives the feds the right to search your house at any time without any kind of warning for feathers that are not legal. It was written right into the application form that came in the mail to us, in the FINE print.

          Next, if you are at a pow wow, dancing your butt off and having a good time, meeting lots of people. Lets say you meet this elder, he likes the way you danced, your singing touched his heart in some way, and he invites you to his house after the pow wow to stay a day or two. You go over, and sit in his back yard, smoke his pipe, and he offers you a feather. If you tell him no, you are deeply gonna offend this guy.

          Finally, I have it under good authority that the feds are going up and down the eastern seaboard, raiding pow wows, ceremonies and just about wherever they can stick their brown noses into searching for feathers. They are also going around the country to sun dances, although this is just a rumor. My question is, why the sudden interest?

          Derek
          I believe in something I want to believe, not what someone wants me to believe.

          Comment


          • #20
            The red butted baboons have no need for things to let them know they are red butted baboons. If we have them we are red butted baboons. If we don't we are red butted baboons. We have no worries because our focus is not on such things.

            Hakuna Matata
            Follow Rafiki! He know da' way!

            Comment


            • #21
              Cherosage.. I think you should call fish and game to make sure you understand what they are saying. Last I knew, you could give your feathers to family members or anyone who is a federally recognized native, but that you must call to let them know what's up so that it's on record should someone try to confiscate them. Same goes that if you recieve a feather from someone, that you should call them to have it added to your permit... HOWEVER... they also say that as long as you are carrying something that shows you are an enrolled native, that as long as you have a permit for most of your feathers, not all have to be accounted for since gifted feathers run in people's families. Just call your fish and game to make sure you know for sure what's ok and don't take anyone's word for it.
              Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

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              • #22
                When you wake up from that dream.....

                Originally posted by trob226
                Look at it another way. Possession of eagle feathers is one right - maybe the only one - that the feds are trying to make sure stays with Indians and only Indians. How often do you see the feds working to KEEP something Indian?
                "She also has a very soft skin. The only trouble with snake women is they copulate with horses, which makes them strange to me. She say's she doesn't. That's why I call her "Doesn't Like Horses". But, of course, she's lying."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by straightboy
                  I had it explained to me this way "son it's just another way for the government to control us"
                  As I stated earlier(see above quote)!! The problem I see with this issue is that there are so many ways people can receive feathers other than the government( gifts, awards, roadkill, honors, trading etc.) Have any of you experienced doing it the way the government wants?? It's a hassle. You've got to fill out alot of paperwork. Then on the average in three years later you MAY get your bird?! I say may because I've heard stories of people getting different parts of different birds. This raises another question from me who handles the feathers at the repository?? Do you want that person touching someting as sacred feathers?? I'm not downing the people that work there , but just a question??

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Coyot_In_The_House
                    ... Gimme my imaginary rights.....What's next air or water....?

                    I'm hearin' ya 'Yote.

                    When I was in middle school, my history teacher asked me to eat with her after a lesson on Indian history.

                    In the middle of our lunch she commented that she, "wished she had my appetite."

                    Being politically adolecent I responded, "first your people took my land, then they took our culture away .... NOW you want my appetite?!!! "


                    *L
                    Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I'll never grovel 2 da "man"

                      Originally posted by WhoMe
                      I'm hearin' ya 'Yote.

                      When I was in middle school, my history teacher asked me to eat with her after a lesson on Indian history.

                      In the middle of our lunch she commented that she, "wished she had my appetite."

                      Being politically adolecent I responded, "first your people took my land, then they took our culture away .... NOW you want my appetite?!!! "


                      *L
                      Good 1....It bothers me when folks seem to lose their sense of independance....Yes we are dependant on the mainstream society, but can't we draw the line somewhere? The "good ndn mentality" is something I don't possess....
                      "She also has a very soft skin. The only trouble with snake women is they copulate with horses, which makes them strange to me. She say's she doesn't. That's why I call her "Doesn't Like Horses". But, of course, she's lying."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Blackbear
                        Cherosage.. I think you should call fish and game to make sure you understand what they are saying. Last I knew, you could give your feathers to family members or anyone who is a federally recognized native, but that you must call to let them know what's up so that it's on record should someone try to confiscate them. Same goes that if you recieve a feather from someone, that you should call them to have it added to your permit... HOWEVER... they also say that as long as you are carrying something that shows you are an enrolled native, that as long as you have a permit for most of your feathers, not all have to be accounted for since gifted feathers run in people's families. Just call your fish and game to make sure you know for sure what's ok and don't take anyone's word for it.
                        This makes sense Blackbear, but what is there to stop a member of a federally recognized tribe with an eagle permit from feathers from the repository going out and shooting an eagle, and then claiming the feathers were gifted?

                        What is to stop anyone, Indian or non, from claiming their eagle feathers were from before the 1940-something and 1962 bald and golden eagle laws were passed (and thus legal to possess)?

                        This law to me seems to have too many loopholes/lack of clarity.

                        My sister worked for Fish and Game one summer and fall through an internship program. She said they had a box of loose eagle feathers that they would find on the preserve, or people would turn in, etc. "Eventually" those feathers were supposed to be turned into the Repository. But she worked there for about 6 months, and they never were. I think its a shame that eagle feathers are thrown into a box and left when Indian people legitimately have requests for them and need them for our religion and ceremony. Its no wonder to me that people resort to ways other than the Repository when this is going on.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by straightboy
                          As I stated earlier(see above quote)!! The problem I see with this issue is that there are so many ways people can receive feathers other than the government( gifts, awards, roadkill, honors, trading etc.) Have any of you experienced doing it the way the government wants?? It's a hassle. You've got to fill out alot of paperwork. Then on the average in three years later you MAY get your bird?! I say may because I've heard stories of people getting different parts of different birds. This raises another question from me who handles the feathers at the repository?? Do you want that person touching someting as sacred feathers?? I'm not downing the people that work there , but just a question??
                          ...What you WILL get is alot of phone calls and a "visit"or two from them before you even get the bird....like if you were adopting or something!!And like you said,you'll most likely get pieces from different birds.I've heard horror stories of folks waiting for yearsand then finally getting the package,opening it,and finding the bird or feathers in horrible shape!Or finding that it wasn't what they wanted,contacting them,and being told that that was what they were given so make due.And then of course now they got you on file and will bother you every chance they get.This is no lie folks,You forfeit all your info,therefore you are subject to their scrutiny,and any indiscrepency they find,your feathers,and the right to possess are yanked away.This whole contacting them whenever you want to do things right and stay within the laws is not only a hassle,but can work against you.They can tell you they're gonna take care of it,but it will take a few days or weeks,and the NEXT DAY show up with a warrant to search your premises for illicit feathers.....Hell,you did tell them you had a feather,right??So they have probable cause.I'm not saying that you shouldn't say anything if you feel it's the right thing to do,but it's also said the road to Hell is paved with good intentions....keep smilin'1

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                          • #28
                            Sounds like a scenario.....

                            from Secret Squirrel and Morraco Mole.....
                            "She also has a very soft skin. The only trouble with snake women is they copulate with horses, which makes them strange to me. She say's she doesn't. That's why I call her "Doesn't Like Horses". But, of course, she's lying."

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Coyot_In_The_House
                              from Secret Squirrel and Morraco Mole.....
                              ...Yaahh,no kiddin',Cuzz....keep smilin'1

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                [QUOTE=Coyot_In_The_House]from Secret Squirrel and Morraco Mole.....[/QUO
                                Yea, we can joke about this here. But this is the fish and game mentality sometimes. I know a respected man in my community. Fish and Game knocked on his door and took everything he had(feathers, buffalo hide, deer tails). He had to go to court (and pay thousands of dollars, which the community pitched in and helped pay) to get everything back. He told me later that what botherd him most was that other people were handling his ceremonial objects. To them it's just parts of a bird! To us it's a gift from the creator! Wee cha

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                                  This info was posted on MySpace. Just sharing....

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