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  • "Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles"

    In a recent story by the Wall Street Journal Eddie Benally, a Navajo conservation officer was quoted as saying that "Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles".

    You can read the article here, reprinted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
    Powwows' Popularity

    While PowWows.com supports all Eagle feather policies and regulations, we are interested in hearing your thoughts on this story.

    Please see information about our support of Eagle feather policies:
    http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=36453

    Are Pow Wows causing an increase in the sales of Eagle feathers?

    Is there a "Black Market" for feathers and birds?
    Last edited by Paul G; 12-26-2006, 11:09 PM.
    New to the site--Introduce Yourself

    Find a Pow Wow Near You!

  • #2
    Of course there is a " Black Market " for feathers.....There's a black market for anything illegal. I myself have been approched to see if I would buy feathers. They were people I didn't know and with the penalties....there's just no way I would ever take the chance ! I wait , on the list , just like all the rest who get their feathers from the Repository. I usually order small amounts and don't have the wait that a whole bird would take. I've seen and called on some of the listings on e-bay that looked like real eagle feathers.
    With the banning of DDT the eagles are again thriving ! They are no longer on the endangered species list. That's a good thing! They are still protected. That to , in my opinion is a good thing.
    The greedy black market folks will get caught eventually. They can't help it. They start by selling 1.....and the longer they get away with it the easier it gets , and eventually they are selling enough that word gets out and then they get busted.
    Some of the younger pow-wow people have not been taught enough about possessing feathers and some ( I think few ) resort to the black market to obtain them. I think some of the big prize money at these super contest dances is a big influence. The bigger better bustles amoung the Tradish and I've been seeing double fancy bustles....all eagle.
    It takes about 3-4 years to get a bird.....How are they getting these big tail bustles , if not the black market ? Yes a few have big families , but I could almost gaurentee
    that some are buying them.
    I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


    They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

    There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

    Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
    It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


    sigpic


    There's a chance you might not like me ,

    but there's a bigger

    chance I won't care

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Paul G
      In a recent story by the Wall Street Journal Eddie Benally, a Navajo conservation officer was quoted as saying that "Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles".

      You can read the article here, reprinted in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
      Powwows' Popularity

      While PowWows.com supports all Eagle feather policies and regulations, we are interested in hearing your thoughts on this story.

      Please see information about our support of Eagle feather policies:
      http://www.powwows.com/gathering/showthread.php?t=36453

      Are Pow Wows causing an increase in the sales of Eagle feathers?

      Is there a "Black Market" for feathers and birds?
      Like I feel about guns, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." It is not the powwows, it is the individual people that have chosen to break the laws and those that disrespect the eagle itself. Yes, competition money could be a incentive; but I don't think most good people would obtain eagle feathers this way. It's best just to wait on the list or wait until a feather is gifted to you, it makes it that more special to myself and my family.

      Comment


      • #4
        Id like to think the black market is for feathers that people who dont dance get legally just for the purpose of selling. Im sure everyone knows someone who always has some stuff. Next time, ask where they came from. Not that they are gonna say they shot the bird, but if everyone starts questioning them and not buying, maybe they will stop.

        its more honorable to dance with your own feathers than to buy them just to look good.

        but Im a white guy with painted feather, so what do I know.
        There are 2 types of people in the world...
        Really stupid people who think they are smart
        and
        Really smart people who think they are smart.

        Comment


        • #5
          I just heard on the TV news that the bald eagle will be removed from the threatened list by the end of February.

          Comment


          • #6
            Didn't get to see the article....

            But what happened to the ole....feathers are earned not bought....??

            I have always raised my lil one to honor the fact that each of the feathers he has received or given is that he earned them. We have been blessed upon receiving numerous amounts of feathers, however, I know traditionally we're never to buy them. Its like dancing, its suppose to be a earned right, not just something you do cuz you get up one day and 'feel like dancing'. I have also taught my son to give some of the feathers he has earned to those who need them. I heard wind of a very close friend son's feather dropped as he was dancing, knowing he was from a tradish family, and how he has regarding my lil one as his own brother. My lil one gifted him with another pair of feathers as he knew he'll need them at another time.

            I have always known my lil one will be gifted with many many feathers but I have always taught him to give things to those who need it. If we see fit, it will be done.

            I have also known some dancers who are known for 'supplying' eagle parts they have shot or hunted down. It is sad and I don't respect those who do. But its out there, if you do receive feathers, get it from the Dept of Game/Wildlife or family members, even if you do have to wait 4 or so years, good things come to those who wait.

            Just the way I see it, feathers are earned and if you live life in a good way, you'll recieve them. Just like dancing, its earned.
            You have crossed my path, You will never be forgotten......


            EMAIL ME for GON 2014 Special Hotel, Air, and Car Rates...limited availability. Powwow special rates across the US and Canada. I also offer great vacation, business, and specialty fares to every destination in the world! Email for the rates
            [email protected]

            Comment


            • #7
              But do you all think it is as big a problem as the article implies?

              Are Pow Wows really the biggest killer of Eagles?
              New to the site--Introduce Yourself

              Find a Pow Wow Near You!

              Comment


              • #8
                Paul...the link to the article doesn't work...it is taking me to a 'yahoo search' of the word http???? thanks...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Joe G
                  Paul...the link to the article doesn't work...it is taking me to a 'yahoo search' of the word http???? thanks...
                  Try it now.

                  http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06356/748287-113.stm
                  New to the site--Introduce Yourself

                  Find a Pow Wow Near You!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by billyjoejimbob
                    but Im a white guy with painted feather, so what do I know.
                    It appears that you know honor and truth. You also seem to live by them as well!

                    Paul, The same goes for me. The link doesn't work. Please repost and fix the link.

                    Ken
                    Don't ask me what I think about something unless you want a truthful anwser. It may not be the anwser you are looking for.

                    It's better to fly with the eagles then drive with the turkeys.

                    Duct tape has a light side and dark side that binds our universe together.

                    Bad attatude lessons available here. To inquire, Check the box to the right. []

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Paul , the link works now ! I was sent the article by another friend of mine. Good article. The issue of pow-wows being the biggest killers of eagles....well I don't entirely believe that. I know there is a black market for feathers and I think the governments waiting list inspires that ! People now days are typically impatient. They don't want to have to wait , for anything.
                      I think the Golden Eagle population may suffer because of the pow-wow scene , but there is an enormous population of Bald Eagles. I've read that in some parts of Alaska , the Bald Eagle is considered a nuisence bird !
                      I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


                      They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

                      There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

                      Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
                      It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


                      sigpic


                      There's a chance you might not like me ,

                      but there's a bigger

                      chance I won't care

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah it's a nuisance bird to non-natives....

                        Is the article harsh..... that's a good question. Maybe if the article said, "competition powwows" are the biggest kiler of eagles, I would probably lean more to saying yes, but the truth is, all it takes is demand and indians are'nt the only people demanding eagle feathers.

                        But if you buy your feathers, you have to know that they come from most likely poached birds, or stolen outfits.... how do people live with their feathers knowing that? Not to mention these non natives who are trying to "live in indian tradition" and claiming that they need them for religious purposes? If they buy eagle feathers, how does the fact that someone shot an eagle to sell them a feather just to make money off that sale fit with their religious beliefs?

                        No, I dont' think it's the biggest factor in the killing of eagles but it does play a huge role in it.
                        Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I finally was able to read this article.....


                          Why is this haastiin Benally limiting it to only powwows? I can understand that he's trying to protect the eagles, etc but he also should know about the San Francisco Peaks protection of the lands in Flagstaff. Many many medicine men go up there to not only collect medicine but seek eagles as well. From wayyyyyyyy back we have the stories of how our elders, medicine men collect eagles, etc. I also know we're not the only tribe that used to do this. Not only do our own tribal medicine men do this but then we have all the roadmen in NAC and everyone else that uses eagles fans or parts. This shouldn't be just limited to powwows.

                          Powwows are the most exploited thing that we have which shows more eagle bustles, feathers, etc in public but its definitely not the only thing that will kill off the populations of eagles.

                          There are more things that are killin the population, like the environment, lack of forestation, the black market, etc. People want or desire more things that they are not allowed to have.

                          Anyhow,,,,,,,,,,,,that's my 2 cents there. Don't just sit there and blame the powwows..........
                          You have crossed my path, You will never be forgotten......


                          EMAIL ME for GON 2014 Special Hotel, Air, and Car Rates...limited availability. Powwow special rates across the US and Canada. I also offer great vacation, business, and specialty fares to every destination in the world! Email for the rates
                          [email protected]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ya gotta love how people are so willing to give their names and how they got feathers.

                            funny that the 2 people who commented were 1/8th cherokee and white.
                            There are 2 types of people in the world...
                            Really stupid people who think they are smart
                            and
                            Really smart people who think they are smart.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm not Cherokee and I'm not white ! Not that there's anything wrong with being either !
                              My first feathers , a wing set , were brought to me by one of our Holy Men. I've gotten several more from others as gifts , and I've recieved about 7 wing sets from the repository , plus 4-5 misc orders from them. I do have all my papers !
                              I've been blessed to be able to gift away 3 eagle bustles to people that I felt deserved them and have given several fans , roach sets , plumes and drop feathers away. It how we do things.....we give
                              I've found that over the years , the more I give , the more I get back !
                              Oh , by the way , I'm Southern Cheyenne.
                              I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


                              They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

                              There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

                              Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
                              It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


                              sigpic


                              There's a chance you might not like me ,

                              but there's a bigger

                              chance I won't care

                              Comment

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                              • Blackbear
                                eagle feathers for powwow money
                                by Blackbear
                                ************************************************** ******
                                This Message Is Reprinted Under The Fair Use
                                Doctrine of International Copyright Law:
                                http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html
                                ************************************************** ******

                                EPISODE 2...
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