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"Powwows are the biggest killer of eagles"

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  • Father Eagle, Brother Turkey

    For those who do not know me yet, my name is Starr, and I am new here, so I would like to begin by saying "Hello". I find this thread interesting, as I am just beginning to learn about my Dine' heritage, and don't know the first thing about feathers and their significance to my People. But I know what they mean to me. Symbols, even those considered most Holy, are still just that, symbols. It is a terrible thing that, in these troubled times of ours, the very things we have used as part of our Faith are now growing scarce, regulated, and rationed. Perhaps it is a sign that we need our Faith and the Old Ways more than ever. Our connection to the Earth, our Mother is something other races have used to alienate us, exploit and patronize us. And yet, it is that very connection that draws wonder, hope and fascination from them as well. I have, on an altar I have made for my house, four feathers. They are turkey feathers I found in my path as I walked on my fiance's family land in North Carolina. They are not rare, or endangered. They are as common as dandelion fluff. But they are wild and beautiful, and were sent to me when I needed them most. Two are large, and I found them together. Shed at the same time, the same feather from each wing. The other are smaller, equal in size, also in my path as I walked. A feather for myself, my Man, and both my children. When I have been up all night with worries of my family and our future swimming in my head, I look to these feathers, and am reminded of my love for them, and find peace. The Spirits send us many signs and portents, it is a human quality to assign meaning to them. My Carolina turkey feathers may not mean much to other Dine', though the manner in which I found them might. And I cannot imagine a time when it could be said that feathers such as mine were no longer attainable. That I would have to write my name on a list and wait, or risk jail or a fine for simply possessing them. But that is what has happened and is happening for many Native People, their Eagles were once my Turkey. There is no one question or solution. And my heart goes out to those who are trapped between modern species conservation, and spiritual tradition. In my heart and mind, they are one and the same.

    Comment


    • What will they do?,
      what can they do?,
      take our feathers away from us next?.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by MNsitting View Post
        if they have to ask then they half to ask. I would rather someone stop me for a 10 second discushion and possibly even lose my feathers (although I would probly cry about it for the rest of the event) then allow something so important to me and my beliefs die out.
        i agree with that but i also am half way not agreeing bc we shouldnt kill no animal without eating and using all its parts we waste enuf in this country
        A~WE~HEH and have faith

        Comment


        • Agreed, I recall being taught "never kill unless your going to eat what you kill or you are defending yourself or your family."

          My tribal identification & feather permit papers, I never leave home without them!!


          .
          Traditions.....keep them and keep them sacred!

          I am NOT Indian. I have never been to India, nor has any of my family before me! I have met these people from India, of whom you speak, and I am nothing like them. Why do you call me an Indian?

          .

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Svnoyi Gvtsanoste View Post
            Of course Pow wow dancing is religious, if the dancing is done for that reason.

            Svnoyi,

            I have to disagree with you. I don't believe powwow dancing is religious. I do not think there is a said "Powwow Religion?" Powwows are too new with the oldest around 150 years old.

            However, there are elements of spirituality at powwows including prayer, the use of eagle feathers and wearing of personal objects.

            From what I have witnessed, powwows are generally social in intent and open to the public. People at powwows laugh, joke, tease and cut up. Drama occurs too.*L

            Powwows are different than true tribal spiritual ceremonies.
            Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

            Comment


            • it come down to the old sayin if people are gonna buy em then people are gonna sell em...cant do a damn thing about!!

              Comment


              • Just an observation...

                In Canada, eagles are an absolute nuisance animal. They're like crows or vultures here. Very plentiful.

                Eagles in the US are also no longer endangered and are coming back in mass -- here in Indiana we even have them flying along Eagle Creek and White River which hasn't happened in decades.

                With that in mind -- whether you think you should earn it or its okay to buy one -- the issue of the black market for eagles doesn't seem to be impacting the eagles recovery very much. It's certainly wrong but to blame PowWows... I would think fisheries and landowners kill more themselves (through licenses or illegally) than are killed for the black market.

                But that's just my opinion. To blame one group... really.

                Comment


                • Simply put, there are not enough eagles in the world to accommodate NA's as far as their attire is concerned. Such as a head piece for example. I am torn between what's right as far as ones culture and that of the fact we need to conserve our eagles. They are sacred creatures which hold a special place among all NA's and to abuse them for even their feathers is not a wise or practical way of dealing with the issue. As in......where does one get these feathers from if they cannot get them from an actual eagle? Well,
                  that is a difficult question to answer for sure. I happen to like eagles very much and anyone who kills them simply for their feathers is not a decent human being in my opinion. So what do we do? Do we opt for fake feathers? Ones man made that look so real, one cannot tell they are fake. Or do we just not have them at all and instead use a variety of bird more plentiful in numbers. The OP title is actually rather
                  odious. I mean think about it. On any given day, how many NA's have head pieces adorned with multiple amounts of eagle feathers in this country? How many tribes are their that use eagle feathers? How many nations? So perhaps its true, maybe our powwows are the biggest killers of eagles. If true, we are in need of a way to deal with this. Since NA's have long claimed to be one with this land and its animals, we need to learn how to evolve as far as the use of animals are concerned. As I stated above, eagles are not exactly in great supply and I cannot myself, condone the killing of an eagle simply for its feathers. I cannot do that.
                  I do understand the significance of eagle feathers being used in tribal ceremonies, but we need to look ahead and think logically about this. Are we guilty of killing the very things we so treasure? If so, then what do we propose to do about it?


                  horse

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by anishinabealltheway View Post
                    I have never heard of the ''kill a bird for religious purposes permit" anyone else???

                    Any NDN I know would be furious to hear that someone has killed one of our messengers, and might kill the person that did it. lol

                    I support all laws regarding this issue and would be quick to turn in anyone that I knew committed such an act.

                    Anywayz here's another link.http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/eagleslaughter/

                    It's about a year old but it's because of things like this that stories get written and I think they should.
                    I just read the article about eagle murders I just felt sick when seen the head of eagle.
                    Asema Is Sacred
                    Traditional Use, Not Misuse
                    Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me.
                    OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Pete walkswithhorse View Post
                      Simply put, there are not enough eagles in the world to accommodate NA's as far as their attire is concerned.

                      I respectfully disagree ! It just an issue for those who do not wait to get them legally !


                      I happen to like eagles very much and anyone who kills them simply for their feathers is not a decent human being in my opinion.
                      That , I can agree with !

                      So what do we do? Do we opt for fake feathers? Ones man made that look so real, one cannot tell they are fake.

                      There is no honor in that. As an individual, you would know, whether anyone else could tell or not. Could you live without the self respect ?

                      Or do we just not have them at all and instead use a variety of bird more plentiful in numbers.

                      Why ? really , there are enough Eagles ! They have been taken off the endangered list. Everywhere they are thriving.

                      The OP title is actually rather
                      odious. I mean think about it. On any given day, how many NA's have head pieces adorned with multiple amounts of eagle feathers in this country? How many tribes are their that use eagle feathers? How many nations?

                      Most....


                      So perhaps its true, maybe our powwows are the biggest killers of eagles. If true, we are in need of a way to deal with this.

                      Go after the black market feather industry. Make penalties more harsh, fines higher , jail terms longer.

                      Since NA's have long claimed to be one with this land and its animals, we need to learn how to evolve as far as the use of animals are concerned. As I stated above, eagles are not exactly in great supply and I cannot myself, condone the killing of an eagle simply for its feathers. I cannot do that.

                      Very few would condone the wanton killing of eagles, but just like the recent rash of shootings , it's not the law abiding Indians that are killing them. It's the black market. All those who can't get them legally so they buy them.....and they've already lost their honor.....but like said above in another post , as long as someone will sell , someone will buy.....let's go after them !
                      I do understand the significance of eagle feathers being used in tribal ceremonies, but we need to look ahead and think logically about this. Are we guilty of killing the very things we so treasure?

                      No

                      If so, then what do we propose to do about it?


                      horse
                      I think it's being done. Enforcement is up.I hear about more and more spot checks at powwows. Some 'known' dancers geting busted for selling them.
                      I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


                      They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

                      There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

                      Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
                      It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


                      sigpic


                      There's a chance you might not like me ,

                      but there's a bigger

                      chance I won't care

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by wardancer View Post
                        I think it's being done. Enforcement is up.I hear about more and more spot checks at powwows. Some 'known' dancers geting busted for selling them.

                        Thanks wardancer

                        I do realize some of my postings may not be accurate or reflect on current events with regards to this issue.


                        Its good to see some form of enforcement here so those that want eagle feathers legally can continue to
                        get the,


                        BTW Question for you. How many feathers does the average head dress normally require? I mean is there a certain amount or is this merely a personal choice. I have only been to two powwows in my entire life (sad) and the pieces I observed the dancers wearing varied......Anyway just curious. Thanks horse

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Pete walkswithhorse View Post
                          BTW Question for you. How many feathers does the average head dress normally require? I mean is there a certain amount or is this merely a personal choice. I have only been to two powwows in my entire life (sad) and the pieces I observed the dancers wearing varied......Anyway just curious. Thanks horse


                          I can't say for sure as I've never built a 'head dress'. I suppose it would be personal choice, and style of head dress....a stand-up bonnet as opposed to a Sioux style w/trailer....could be a big difference.But really , you don't see too many bonnets in powwow land .
                          I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


                          They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

                          There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

                          Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
                          It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


                          sigpic


                          There's a chance you might not like me ,

                          but there's a bigger

                          chance I won't care

                          Comment





                          • Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife need your help:

                            On January 9th 2013 four dead eagles were discovered floating in a lake outside of Granite Falls in Snohomish County, Washington. The four eagles were retrieved by officers on January 10th. Initial observations suggests at least three of the birds were killed using a small caliber rifle. It appears that the birds had been perched in trees before they fell to their death into the water. Bald eagles are protected under state and federal law. The federal violation for killing an eagle is a Class A misdemeanor. It is also a state crime with a maximum penalty of $1,000 and 90 days in jail. Also, under state law, $2000 per eagle killed is assessed upon conviction. WDFW, Humane Society of the United States, and Conservation Northwest have collaborated to offer up to $3,750 cash reward. In order to qualify for the total amount, the information must lead to an arrest and conviction. Anyone with information related to this egregious act is encouraged to call the Fish and Wildife Police on our TIP line at 1.877.933.9847 or email us at [email protected]. Information will be treated confidentially.

                            http://wdfw.wa.gov/enforcement/repor...iolations.html

                            "Be good, be kind, help each other."
                            "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

                            --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Historian View Post



                              Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife need your help:

                              On January 9th 2013 four dead eagles were discovered floating in a lake outside of Granite Falls in Snohomish County, Washington. The four eagles were retrieved by officers on January 10th. Initial observations suggests at least three of the birds were killed using a small caliber rifle. It appears that the birds had been perched in trees before they fell to their death into the water. Bald eagles are protected under state and federal law. The federal violation for killing an eagle is a Class A misdemeanor. It is also a state crime with a maximum penalty of $1,000 and 90 days in jail. Also, under state law, $2000 per eagle killed is assessed upon conviction. WDFW, Humane Society of the United States, and Conservation Northwest have collaborated to offer up to $3,750 cash reward. In order to qualify for the total amount, the information must lead to an arrest and conviction. Anyone with information related to this egregious act is encouraged to call the Fish and Wildife Police on our TIP line at 1.877.933.9847 or email us at [email protected]. Information will be treated confidentially.

                              http://wdfw.wa.gov/enforcement/repor...iolations.html
                              Makes you wonder if more were killed and these are the ones they couldn't get collected ! Hmmmm.... I hope they catch the one that did it.
                              I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


                              They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

                              There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

                              Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
                              It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


                              sigpic


                              There's a chance you might not like me ,

                              but there's a bigger

                              chance I won't care

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Historian View Post



                                Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife need your help:

                                On January 9th 2013 four dead eagles were discovered floating in a lake outside of Granite Falls in Snohomish County, Washington. The four eagles were retrieved by officers on January 10th. Initial observations suggests at least three of the birds were killed using a small caliber rifle. It appears that the birds had been perched in trees before they fell to their death into the water. Bald eagles are protected under state and federal law. The federal violation for killing an eagle is a Class A misdemeanor. It is also a state crime with a maximum penalty of $1,000 and 90 days in jail. Also, under state law, $2000 per eagle killed is assessed upon conviction. WDFW, Humane Society of the United States, and Conservation Northwest have collaborated to offer up to $3,750 cash reward. In order to qualify for the total amount, the information must lead to an arrest and conviction. Anyone with information related to this egregious act is encouraged to call the Fish and Wildife Police on our TIP line at 1.877.933.9847 or email us at [email protected]. Information will be treated confidentially.

                                http://wdfw.wa.gov/enforcement/repor...iolations.html
                                WTF Man that just sick!! they should be put to death for murdering a eagle.
                                Asema Is Sacred
                                Traditional Use, Not Misuse
                                Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me.
                                OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

                                Comment

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                                • Blackbear
                                  eagle feathers for powwow money
                                  by Blackbear
                                  ************************************************** ******
                                  This Message Is Reprinted Under The Fair Use
                                  Doctrine of International Copyright Law:
                                  http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html
                                  ************************************************** ******

                                  EPISODE 2...
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