UK Powwows?

[they_drag_him]

Hi, I don't mean to sound disrespectful but I'd like to say that we are all new agers in the sense that we are living in a new age. Why state the obvious?
Sorry, although I do know what you mean. It would be wise to keep in mind that many tribes hold different ways of viewing things. It is to my knoweldge that the Anishinabe people thought highly of the concept of complete autonomy for every person. I see this within my family and in other families.

Saying that I am an embaressment to all native people is negative thinking and a negative expression, this kind of thing can be viewed as disrespecful to some.

It is only respectful to state that those people can do whatever they like. I hold an open opinion that what they're doing is not wrong because they are autonomous beings, I may disagree with it but I won't say it's wrong. It is none of my business what they do. As long as we know what is right in our hearts and minds then it may be wise not be concerned with tedious things such as europeans practings pow wow culture.
You do realise that many pow wows are "new age". Some tribes weren't competative, many didn't put fame to those that were "better" dancers then others. Competition was highly instilled into native people through euro culture. It makes a lot of people feel left out and therefore was not a tradition to many many tribes. I was taught that pow wows were celebrations put on by neighboring tribes or communities for certain occasions, most often when tribes came together to trade, or other important events.

Getting negative and riled up may be viewed as disrespectful in itself. I come from a teaching of respect. I respect your right to your viewpoint and understand it but I do not agree with your expression of thought whatsoever.

My expression of thought is from my life experiences. Again, you know nothing. You go right ahead and spit in your ancestors faces and I will laugh at you.

My tribe is on it's 147th annual wacipi, there's nothing new age about it. It is a reservation powwow which is something that you probably aren't familiar with. We have visiting tribes but things are done the D/L/Nakota way.

Are you stupid too? Competition was not instilled via the wasicu, competition was instilled by war and killing against enemy tribes. So, as not to kill each other off, we started counting coup in wargames and that competitiveness moved on to wacipis.

[OLChemist]

It is to my knowledge that the Anishinabe people thought highly of the concept of complete autonomy for every person. I see this within my family and in other families.

My people too believe that one man (or woman) cannot tell another what to do. However, a mature person was expected to curtail his or her exercise of their personal autonomy for the good of the people. Satisfying your whims and impulses may make you feel good, but in fact may have negative consequences for your family and/or nation as a whole.

It is only respectful to state that those people can do whatever they like. I hold an open opinion that what they're doing is not wrong because they are autonomous beings, I may disagree with it but I won't say it's wrong. It is none of my business what they do....

Well -- to use a retro turn of phrase -- what a cop out. Abdicating moral judgement is easy and people like you. The dominant culture will even give you kudos for open mindedness. But without common values and standards a culture can't survive.

So is it still none of your business when they are stealing the bones of your ancestors? Is it still none of your never mind when they sell your sacred ways to the highest bidder? Where do you draw the cultural integrity line?

[JayFive]

NEW AGER ALERT!

you go right ahead jayfive and let other's think that we can be downtrodden and pushed behind the scenes. it's people like you who are an embarrassment to us all.

Hi, I don't mean to sound disrespectful but I'd like to say that we are all new agers in the sense that we are living in a new age. Why state the obvious?
Sorry, although I do know what you mean. It would be wise to keep in mind that many tribes hold different ways of viewing things. It is to my knoweldge that the Anishinabe people thought highly of the concept of complete autonomy for every person. I see this within my family and in other families.

Saying that I am an embaressment to all native people is negative thinking and a negative expression, this kind of thing can be viewed as disrespecful to some.

It is only respectful to state that those people can do whatever they like. I hold an open opinion that what they're doing is not wrong because they are autonomous beings, I may disagree with it but I won't say it's wrong. It is none of my business what they do. As long as we know what is right in our hearts and minds then it may be wise not be concerned with tedious things such as europeans practings pow wow culture.
You do realise that many pow wows are "new age". Some tribes weren't competative, many didn't put fame to those that were "better" dancers then others. Competition was highly instilled into native people through euro culture. It makes a lot of people feel left out and therefore was not a tradition to many many tribes. I was taught that pow wows were celebrations put on by neighboring tribes or communities for certain occasions, most often when tribes came together to trade, or other important events.

Getting negative and riled up may be viewed as disrespectful in itself. I come from a teaching of respect. I respect your right to your viewpoint and understand it but I do not agree with your expression of thought whatsoever.

[they_drag_him]

Oh, so we never traded with the white people then?

You tell me who and why people would be so desperate to trade with the wasicu? When was this? The Hunkpati were always having skirmishes with the white folk from the beginning until we were forced into Ft Thompson, SD. I don't know what you are talking about.

[anishtradish]

so many words written but no meaning whatsoever. you need to think before you type. don't get me wrong but i feel that you need to re-evaluate what you've been taught.

Oh, so we never traded with the white people then?

[they_drag_him]

I agree that they shouldn't be copying designs and patterns because those are family and tribal specific for the most part.





we bartered all the time for different things, and feathers are among them. Just like how peyote people use macaw and parrot feathers in their fans, and other exotic birds. They trade them from all over the place, and I don't see anything wrong with trading stuff. I mean even pipestone for example, from up here in Minnesota, has been found in burial mounds in South America, just like how some of their materials and items have been found way up here. We had trade routs all over the place, and even though some of the things we traded for, were not native to our own lands, we still traded for them and used them. I mean feathers were traded mainly like beads, for ornamental purposes. So I don't see anything wrong with using non-native species for powwow regalia, maybe when it come to sacred prayer items, to not use exotics. Though I suppose you have a point that you might not know how they came across them, but they have just as strict laws over there protecting wildlife, so I would imagine they collect them legally over there too some how. We tend to forget that even white people utilized feathers from the birds where they lived, so there is still a lot of traditional crafters and feathersmiths and flytyers over there that legally acquire these things, and sometimes they will trade and barter. Like when they find an eagle or hawk or something dead on the road in Europe, they can pick it up and keep it for whatever personal use, like taxidermy or whatever, but they can't go out and shoot them. The woman I get most of my stuff from, like my hornbill feathers on my roach, just has a large private aviary, and I know a few falconers who save them when the birds molt, so I guess I can say I know no birds are being harmed, so I don't have to worry about any birds being harmed. So if you can find contacts like that who do raise birds or whatnot, I don't see anything wrong with trading.

so many words written but no meaning whatsoever. you need to think before you type. don't get me wrong but i feel that you need to re-evaluate what you've been taught.

[anishtradish]

I agree that they shouldn't be copying designs and patterns because those are family and tribal specific for the most part.

Why the heck would you want to barter with non-Native people for sacred eagle feathers? Who knows what they do with them or how they take of them. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard a Native suggest. I was taught that everyone was given original instructions for how to live with the land where they live. I'll keep praying with eagle feathers that are just as indigenous to this land as my ancestors!

we bartered all the time for different things, and feathers are among them. Just like how peyote people use macaw and parrot feathers in their fans, and other exotic birds. They trade them from all over the place, and I don't see anything wrong with trading stuff. I mean even pipestone for example, from up here in Minnesota, has been found in burial mounds in South America, just like how some of their materials and items have been found way up here. We had trade routs all over the place, and even though some of the things we traded for, were not native to our own lands, we still traded for them and used them. I mean feathers were traded mainly like beads, for ornamental purposes. So I don't see anything wrong with using non-native species for powwow regalia, maybe when it come to sacred prayer items, to not use exotics. Though I suppose you have a point that you might not know how they came across them, but they have just as strict laws over there protecting wildlife, so I would imagine they collect them legally over there too some how. We tend to forget that even white people utilized feathers from the birds where they lived, so there is still a lot of traditional crafters and feathersmiths and flytyers over there that legally acquire these things, and sometimes they will trade and barter. Like when they find an eagle or hawk or something dead on the road in Europe, they can pick it up and keep it for whatever personal use, like taxidermy or whatever, but they can't go out and shoot them. The woman I get most of my stuff from, like my hornbill feathers on my roach, just has a large private aviary, and I know a few falconers who save them when the birds molt, so I guess I can say I know no birds are being harmed, so I don't have to worry about any birds being harmed. So if you can find contacts like that who do raise birds or whatnot, I don't see anything wrong with trading.

[Kaina1128]

some of those powwows will pay dancers to fly dancers over there to attend those things. But some of them have taken advantage of the Europeans, like there were native people going to Europe and charging them to have sun dance ceremonies and sweat lodges and what not, and these were actual natives, not them Cherokee crystal rainbow people.

My cousins recently did a tour in about 4 European countries. They did exhibitions and had a great time. They are champion dancers in the US and honorable people. Natives who go over there and do crazy stuff are dishonorable. I have nothing wrong with NATIVES sharing cultural dances with non-Natives. I highly protest non-Native start-ups and hobbyist clubs claiming to be supporting our culture. How about they petition their government to pressure the US to sign the UN Rights of Indigenous Peoples declaration instead of playing Indian on the weekends?

I know once in a while a group from another country will show up to one of our powwows to watch the powwow and learn, and sometimes they will get a special song or introduction of some sort or something, and make them go out there and dance. I suppose it's a way of welcoming other people into our celebrations, and showing some native hospitality.

My people have always included outsiders by marriage and adoption in order to form ties. People who steal beadwork patterns and dance styles without the proper initiation rituals and without knowing the history are disrespectful. Spectators usually just come to watch and have fun.

one thing I must admit though, some of them Europeans have some nice *** feathers. From like the eagles and hawks that come from over that way with different patterns and designs, and there easy to barter with over the net. They will send you all kinds of crazy feathers for just doing a little bead work or something for them.

Why the heck would you want to barter with non-Native people for sacred eagle feathers? Who knows what they do with them or how they take of them. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard a Native suggest. I was taught that everyone was given original instructions for how to live with the land where they live. I'll keep praying with eagle feathers that are just as indigenous to this land as my ancestors!

[CaliChoctaw64]

there is no honor in the wasicu mimicking us. it is a spit to the face of our ancestors who killed the wasicus, who were murdered by the wasicus and who were kidnapped by the wasicus. we have every right to thwart their every move. so, if any of you wannabee natives want to side with these exploiters, just watch it and move out of my way.

I may not be as harsh as They-Drag-Him, but the brother hit the nail on the head! I don't feel it's compliment, it seems patronizing.

[they_drag_him]

there is no honor in the wasicu mimicking us. it is a spit to the face of our ancestors who killed the wasicus, who were murdered by the wasicus and who were kidnapped by the wasicus. we have every right to thwart their every move. so, if any of you wannabee natives want to side with these exploiters, just watch it and move out of my way.

[anishtradish]

some of those powwows will pay dancers to fly dancers over there to attend those things. But some of them have taken advantage of the Europeans, like there were native people going to Europe and charging them to have sun dance ceremonies and sweat lodges and what not, and these were actual natives, not them Cherokee crystal rainbow people.

Heck, I wouldn't mind a free vacation for just doing a little exhibition dancing. Wouldn't really be any different from the tons of spectators at the powwows here anyways.

I know once in a while a group from another country will show up to one of our powwows to watch the powwow and learn, and sometimes they will get a special song or introduction of some sort or something, and make them go out there and dance. I suppose it's a way of welcoming other people into our celebrations, and showing some native hospitality.

Though I know sometimes we have "white man dances" where the dancers each go and pick out one spectator to go out in the ring and have a dance off in there street clothes, for the fun of it, watching them trying to dance.


one thing I must admit though, some of them Europeans have some nice *** feathers. From like the eagles and hawks that come from over that way with different patterns and designs, and there easy to barter with over the net. They will send you all kinds of crazy feathers for just doing a little bead work or something for them.

[chazziff]

Freedom!!!!

.. so thats what ya call it .. didnt know that

[Kaina1128]

Freedom!!!!

this stuff just makes me laugh after a while. oh jeez...europeans these days...

[CaliChoctaw64]

Freedom!!!!

[chazziff]

LOL ... i always wanted to see what was under a kilt