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VP Debate - Who Won?

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  • VP Debate - Who Won?

    It's on the books now so who 'won'? Who seemed more presidential or connected with voters or impressed you? Did this debate change the way you plan on voting? Did it help you make a decision?
    22
    Sarah Louise Heath Palin
    36.36%
    8
    Joseph Robinette "Joe" Biden, Jr
    63.64%
    14

    The poll is expired.


  • #2
    For me just secured my decision. While I am still not a big fan of Biden, I can't vote for the policies of McCain.

    His Health Care plan is terrible and will prevent millions from being able to have insurance.

    Drilling for the sake of drilling? Why! Oil isn't the only answer. Like Biden said last night, opening new wells of oil will take years for us to see the benefits. We need to pursue other

    Etc! I just don't support their policies.
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    • #3
      Sarah Palin seemed like a plastic wind-up doll--it is really scary that she could wind up being Commander in Chief of our troops. Nope. I can not vote for McCain with Palin as running mate. Is it too late to drop her from the ticket?
      Disclaimer: Eyes and I are friends no matter what our evil twins say on the rhyme thread.

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      • #4
        Go to factcheck.org and review what was presented by both sides in the debate last night, including some distortions and misquotations of the facts.

        Case in point - health care. Biden says McCain's $5,000 tax credit to families for health care will go to the insurance company. Of course it will! It's for buying health insurance. That's like saying money paid to Ford Motor Credit for an auto loan is bad or unfair. He also said that McCain wants to deregulate the health care industry. Not true! In the paper that was misquoted last night he simply stated that current regulations should be rewritten to allow insurance across state lines, putting more players in some areas where insurance/coverage choices are limited and thereby creating more competition and likely lower premiums.

        I've worked in the health care industry for over 20 years, including nearly 10 years in strategic planning and finance. The last thing this country needs is a nationalized health care system. I don't think we want Washington telling us whether it is medically necessary for surgery or if we're good risk based on age or existing health history. All you need to do is talk to folks over in the UK and ask them about the waiting lists for elective procedures or the bureaucracy they have to go through to get what seems like urgent medical care taken care of in an expeditious fashion.

        As far as the oil drilling goes...just because it might take years to see the output doesn't mean you don't do it. That's like saying that you're not going to start investing in a 401(k) plan today because the money won't be of use to you for another 20 or 30 years. I think Palin and McCain have both made it clear that funding the exploration of alternative energy sources is included in their plan.

        I wish during the debates that both McCain and Palin had been more vocal in explaining how there is direct DEMOCRATIC responsibility for the current economic mess we're in. You can go all of the way back to Clinton administration and see how pressure began then to relax lending rules to allow more lower income and minority families to purchase homes. In 2002/2003 President Bush expressed concerns about the viability of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, all the while Barney Frank in the Banking Services Committee was going on about how well they were doing their jobs. In the most recent accounting of political donations by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Barack Obama and Barney Frank were nos. 2 and 3 on list.

        You may have made up your minds WHO you are voting for, but just be sure you know exactly WHAT you're going to get.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by NorthofAda View Post
          Case in point - health care. Biden says McCain's $5,000 tax credit to families for health care will go to the insurance company. Of course it will! It's for buying health insurance. That's like saying money paid to Ford Motor Credit for an auto loan is bad or unfair. He also said that McCain wants to deregulate the health care industry. Not true! In the paper that was misquoted last night he simply stated that current regulations should be rewritten to allow insurance across state lines, putting more players in some areas where insurance/coverage choices are limited and thereby creating more competition and likely lower premiums.
          I'm not sure that a totally Nationalize Health Care plan will work either.

          But giving people $5,000 as a tax credit does absolutely nothing! First off, people will have to pay that bill every month. Most American families won't have the excess money each month to pay that bill. Don't know about you, but I dno't have a whole lot of expendable income for additional healthcare. And then to give it back as a tax credit? People need the money directly to pay the bills not as a year end tax credit.

          I've worked in the health care industry for over 20 years, including nearly 10 years in strategic planning and finance. The last thing this country needs is a nationalized health care system.
          How about we do something completely crazy! Let's cut out the 90 billion a month going to Iraq. Heck let's just cut that in half and everyone could have free health care. No need to Nationalize it, government could just pay the bills!

          As far as the oil drilling goes...just because it might take years to see the output doesn't mean you don't do it. That's like saying that you're not going to start investing in a 401(k) plan today because the money won't be of use to you for another 20 or 30 years. I think Palin and McCain have both made it clear that funding the exploration of alternative energy sources is included in their plan.
          I think McCain has made it clear. He has voted against alternative energy for over 20 years! Now that is it a popular AND needed idea he is on board!
          [/quote]

          I wish during the debates that both McCain and Palin had been more vocal in explaining how there is direct DEMOCRATIC responsibility for the current economic mess we're in. You can go all of the way back to Clinton administration and see how pressure began then to relax lending rules to allow more lower income and minority families to purchase homes. In 2002/2003 President Bush expressed concerns about the viability of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, all the while Barney Frank in the Banking Services Committee was going on about how well they were doing their jobs. In the most recent accounting of political donations by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, Barack Obama and Barney Frank were nos. 2 and 3 on list.
          Both sides are wrapped up in the banking industry!

          http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us...Zg&oref=slogin


          You may have made up your minds WHO you are voting for, but just be sure you know exactly WHAT you're going to get.
          What will we get with McCain?

          The guy that just a few weeks ago said the fundamentals of our economy are strong. And last week threaten to miss a debate because of this "strong" economy?

          Or the McCain who now cries for alternative fuels after voting against it for 20 years?

          Or the McCain who voted against the Bush tax cuts and went on countless talk shows railing against them. To now supporting them?

          Here's the quote from NPR:

          But once McCain began campaigning to be President Bush's successor, he dramatically changed his stance on those tax cuts, saying he could make them permanent and would reduce taxes on 25 million middle-class families.
          McCain's Voting Record: Bush Comparison Accurate? : NPR
          Or how about the "Maverick" McCain? He steps out alone against his party, according to him!

          But he has voted with Bush 95% of the time!

          FactCheck.org: Is it true John McCain voted with George Bush 95 percent of the time?

          Are you sure you know what YOU are getting?
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          • #6
            Originally posted by NorthofAda View Post
            Case in point - health care. Biden says McCain's $5,000 tax credit to families for health care will go to the insurance company. Of course it will! It's for buying health insurance. That's like saying money paid to Ford Motor Credit for an auto loan is bad or unfair. He also said that McCain wants to deregulate the health care industry. Not true! In the paper that was misquoted last night he simply stated that current regulations should be rewritten to allow insurance across state lines, putting more players in some areas where insurance/coverage choices are limited and thereby creating more competition and likely lower premiums.
            And my other major problem with this plan is that it costs $12,000 for a family of four. Where do they get the other $7,000?

            He is giving $2,500 to individuals. Average cost for a single person is $4,400.
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            • #7
              How is Obama going to pay to cover EVERYBODY without increasing taxes????

              Is Obama consistent in HIS idealogy? Nope. How about Reverend Jeremiah Wright, who Obama called his spiritual mentor and then when politically inconvenient distances himself from him? How about voting against the war in Iraq before he was for it? How about the fact that he wants to place more American troops in Afghanistan? You can't do that for nothing, can you?

              As far as the energy bill goes, John McCain as far back as 2003 voted FOR the Reduction of Foreign Oil Dependence Amendment, which was inaccurately reported as a no vote by the Obama campaign.

              I hope you're getting your facts from the right sources, i.e., Congressional Record, and not from sites that have a political agenda behind them.
              Last edited by NorthofAda; 10-03-2008, 01:08 PM.

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              • #8
                Palin did better than I thought she would. I was bummed because I thought it would be more exciting.....

                Biden still won though. You could tell he knew more about all subjects.

                I'm still voting for OBAMA/BIDEN!!!!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by NorthofAda View Post
                  How is Obama going to pay to cover EVERYBODY without increasing taxes????
                  Don't believe either ticket is claiming they won't raise taxes.
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                  • #10
                    I know who lost...all of US! The 'bail out' plan is rewarding criminals for their thievery, and every candidate supports it. We are being blackmailed by the very people who are becoming super wealthy! I didn't see any plan for punishing anybody but the ones who pay the taxes. Clyde Barrow, the Mafia, or your neighborhood shakedown artists have nothing on these guys.

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                    • #11
                      Good point Joe! Good Point!

                      Originally posted by Joe G View Post
                      I know who lost...all of US! The 'bail out' plan is rewarding criminals for their thievery, and every candidate supports it. We are being blackmailed by the very people who are becoming super wealthy! I didn't see any plan for punishing anybody but the ones who pay the taxes. Clyde Barrow, the Mafia, or your neighborhood shakedown artists have nothing on these guys.
                      Obama Biden is the lesser of two evils.....I cringe at the thought of McCain and Palin getting in and something putting Palin in the drivers seat! DANGEROUS! Okay she's not a complete F up...But she's real close......That was a dry debate.....
                      "She also has a very soft skin. The only trouble with snake women is they copulate with horses, which makes them strange to me. She say's she doesn't. That's why I call her "Doesn't Like Horses". But, of course, she's lying."

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                      • #12
                        Joe G - you're right.

                        I don't want there to be a "bailout."

                        How about capping mortgage rates for folks who got swindled into unfair loans and free up some discretionary income?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Coyot_In_The_House View Post
                          Obama Biden is the lesser of two evils.....I cringe at the thought of McCain and Palin getting in and something putting Palin in the drivers seat! DANGEROUS! Okay she's not a complete F up...But she's real close......That was a dry debate.....
                          How are they the lesser of 2 evils? Obama wants a no-condition dialogue with the likes of Ahmadenijad. Do you really trust him?

                          We are not an island unto ourselves. While our domestic economy is in crisis and most certainly deserves utmost attention, we cannot exclude our place in the international arena. Obama lacks the credibility and experience to function adequately in a foreign policy scenario.

                          As for the debate being dry, I suppose you're just disappointed that Palin didn't screw up. Keep in mind that the most recent interviews played up in the liberal media were edited for effect. What you saw last night was live, uncut and unedited. To some undecided voters that is going to be more meaningful than anything with a carefully crafted spin.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Quoted by North of Ada:
                            Case in point - health care. Biden says McCain's $5,000 tax credit to families for health care will go to the insurance company. Of course it will! It's for buying health insurance. That's like saying money paid to Ford Motor Credit for an auto loan is bad or unfair. He also said that McCain wants to deregulate the health care industry. Not true! In the paper that was misquoted last night he simply stated that current regulations should be rewritten to allow insurance across state lines, putting more players in some areas where insurance/coverage choices are limited and thereby creating more competition and likely lower premiums.

                            I've worked in the health care industry for over 20 years, including nearly 10 years in strategic planning and finance. The last thing this country needs is a nationalized health care system. I don't think we want Washington telling us whether it is medically necessary for surgery or if we're good risk based on age or existing health history. All you need to do is talk to folks over in the UK and ask them about the waiting lists for elective procedures or the bureaucracy they have to go through to get what seems like urgent medical care taken care of in an expeditious fashion.
                            I've worked in the health insurance and Insurance industry for many years as well. What McCain proposes is disastrous.

                            First of all, it is illegal to deny coverage to any person who participates in an employer-sponsored health plan. That person may pay a higher premium than his/her fellow employees due to factors such as prior medical issues and age, but that person would have coverage. Coverage under these plans tend to be more comprehensive than individually issued plans, and tend to cost the employer up to $2K a month for family coverage. Granted, that $2K plan is going to have all the bells and whistles, in addition to low co-pays and deductibles, but very few employers can get away with paying less than $800-$1000 a month for family coverage under any medical plan. Most states require that the employer pays at least 50% of the premium for the employee, but the employer will be taxed on 100% of the premium based on McCain's plan. Taxing health insurance premiums has not been allowed, and this will turn the tables on employers who are already groaning at the high cost of health insurance, and they would be inclined to drop health insurance coverage for their employees. They simply would not be able to afford it, especially small to medium sized companies.

                            On the other hand, companies that issue private individual health insurance policies are allowed to turn down coverage to an applicant due to medical history, especially if the state has a medical plan of last resort. The last resort plans are not particularly adored by hospitals and medical providers because of the low rate of reimbursement by these state-sponsored plans, thereby leaving the insured with fewer resources and choices of doctors and hospitals. I know I am preaching to the choir, but the people who enroll in the last resort state sponsored plans are in no other position but to engage in adverse selection. The people who enroll are people who have been declined by commercial health insurance companies due to chronic health issues, catastrophic illnesses, and ageism. Therefore, these plans are treating the oldest and the sickest, and incurring higher costs and worse experience records than employer sponsored plans. The premiums charged by plans of last resort are not cheap, and $5K would barely make a dent in an annual premium.

                            Secondly, McCain's plan is implausible because health plans from state to state are not uniform. Each state determines the type of coverage each insurance carrier may offer, and they vary considerably from state to state. Some carriers are not allowed to sell insurance in some states because their plans do not meet that state's commission's criteria, while other carriers opt out of offering plans because of state regulations that state what those plans must offer and who they must cover. In order to make McCain's plan work, the states would have to get out of regulating insurance plans in their states and let either the federal government or the insurance companies take over. If the insurance carriers are left making all the calls, what will result is an unregulated mish-mash that will not necessarily result in better coverage for anyone, nor will there be any guarantee that everyone will have affordable or comprehensive coverage. I sincerely doubt that the states would be at all happy about that possiblility.

                            Frankly, McCain's plan is a thinly-veiled attempt to abolish the employer-sponsored health plan system, and leaves absolutely no recourse for the people who must find another method of providing health insurance for themselves and their families. Perhaps it is time to examine how health insurance is provided, but cutting Americans off without any forseeable options is not the way to do it. Not everybody can apply for an individual health insurance plan and expect to be accepted for coverage. It just doesn't work that way.
                            Last edited by SheTurtle; 10-03-2008, 01:52 PM.

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                            • #15
                              I watched it, it was boring, still hasn't changed my mind of who I'm voting for...but, to me, it's all scary!
                              sigpicDisclaimer: Storyteller and I are friends no matter what our evil twins say on the rhyme thread


                              Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, laying in hospitals, dying of nothing....

                              If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you!

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                              The stone........after the throw. The word........after it's said.

                              The occasion...........after it's missed. The time.........after it's gone.

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