This "One with Nature" crap is killing us...

[IlnuSoldier]

Honestly... who else sees this "one with nature" crap killing us slowly..

.. this romanticized fantasy is causing thousands of us to hault our development, risk our survival, and die for a bunch of unrealistic ideology...

... yes, in the past many tribes we biocentric... yes, we can still be biocentric....

... and yes, we can idenitfy the world around us and the non-human beings as "persons" etc.etc..

.. however...

... this ecological-noble-savage crap is causing us to not only have a doomed perspective in the present, but it is causing us to REWRITE our history ---- which is trapping us in a false identity even more !

To oversimply our history is to provide us inaccurate views of the present--views which trick us into living a life which DOES NOT actually exist nor does it run congruent with that which is actually happening around us.



Does anyone else see this ?

Post your thoughts.

[Asmajol]

Erm, i want to be as edumacated as i can be about surviving and working with the land, cuz if the ch*t goes down i wanna be ready

Everything comes full circle. Co-dependancy can kinda work?

Personally i dont like light pollution, smog and contamination, and thats all i see when people dont "work with the land"
When an empty lot sits next to a field, that field gets layed over and built on rather than using whats there. The senselessness and greed of it all makes my belly curdle.

Tho i can see your point, and functioning in the "created setting" that has been made is practically a necessity in the here and now. But what is money if the economy collapses, where is the house after a tornado. If calamities do happen, those most dependant on the grid are going to be most panic stricken. THe planet was here long before us and will be here long after us.
Besides the whole Raping and pilaging mentality has spent enough time in the spotlight of humankind.

[Blackbear]

Ok I don't care for the new age view people have of us being one with nature, but you cannot deny that our ancestors new how to live off the land with the least impact until europeans came with their trade and alchohol and then suddenly we are wiping out beaver and such... but even now there are many nations trying to clean up or protect what they have. Onondaga for example. Huge lawsuit won and instead of the money in the bank, they asked for their important water system to be cleaned up.

No I don't think we went around hugging trees and hitting them with sticks to wake them up.. but some of us did consider them living beings with their own spirit. I'd cite and example but it's of the senstive nature and not appropriate here if you know what I mean.

I think this annoying image you are talking about actually has it's roots in wicca and like alot of what wiccans believe crossed over to our beliefs thanks to new agers.

[steelemagnolia63]

I have to agree that the new agers and wiccans that have decided that they are Native Americans that have given us this image of being "at one with the earth". I do agree that we were the people that left the least imprint on the world around us until the boat landed and all the Europen people came out of it. Then they started trying to civilize the indengious people.

[soopashinaab]

I don't know about being "one with nature" but I can sure say I'm "one with my skivvies" you can now go about your business

[wyo_rose]

I'm "one with my skivvies"

I'm kinda cornfused about what you mean by "one with nature" (one with my skivvies is plain as day ).

The new agers doing this IS crap, but who are these thousands
halting our development, risking our survival, and dying for ideology??

Are you saying that Indians should back off from being environmentalists? What about the West Coast tribes with dams on their rivers? Alaska Natives trying to preserve the caribou herds? South American tribes losing their homelands RIGHT NOW?

To stereotype anybody is wrong (duh), but so are the new "theories" coming out that Native Americans killed off all the ice age megafauna and weren't good stewarts of this country.

Please read the new Nat'l Geographic to see how invading white men really screwed up the whole ecosytem of SE Australia. Their water system is beyond repair.

[Blackbear]

YUP! what she said!~

[IlnuSoldier]

again, please reread my post....

I said that I think a biocentric view is good..

I am refering NOT to ecology and to the wise management of natural resources---again, that is NOT what I am refering to.

What I was refering to was more of the "IMAGE" of the "eco-divine noble savage" that is often intertwined with the ecological concerns..

This FALSE image is not only damaging to our people's historical image's accuracy--- but it also makes us LESS effecient at solving the ecological dilemmas of our modern time.

It is along the same lines of NDNs who believe they have to be uneducated and poor to be NDN--- that if they have an education and have experiences off the rez that they will somehow be less NDN because of it....

These images of ourselves are simply FALSE and destructive to us as a people and they slow down and retard our ability to function at a high caliber in this present world.

To put it another way :

When you mix "ego*" into your actions, you are going to spoil the result.

If we commit to an ecologically mindful approach-- GOOD !

But if we do it in the name of a false doctrine (the "noble savage who is one with nature") it will not only alter the actual history (bad for the people) but it will diminish our actual ability to function properly as ecologist (bad for the entire planet).


(* ego : a mental construct composed of several ideas/emotions in which the entity imputes the mental constuct onto its existance and believe itself to be the mental construct)

[wyo_rose]

Are there really Indians that think they have to be uneducated and poor to be Indian? I've been on lots of reservations and nobody is staying poor to keep their Indian identity. Or forsaking education for it. It's ALWAYS other circumstances that get in the way, if they don't have much education or money.

Indians LOVE money - just like anyone else!! Of course there's some that will forego this rat race to live more traditionally and be happy, but I wouldn't call them poor.

Or is it really YOUR image of people on reservations that is the problem? Is it that YOU can't stand how you perceive people to be on your reservation? That they don't live up to YOUR standards?? That things would be so much better if they followed YOUR example?

And I don't agree with biocentrism is any sense of the word - Biocentrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sustainable antropocentrism - ecologically speaking - is more the way to go.

And your definition of *ego* SUCKS!!

[tiffany redfeather]

In all respects, IlnuSoldier

what is a plan of action to take place to stop them? I dont think their is much to do other than educate the public on real native views and that is alot of work.

An people will still believe the stereotypical image. The social conditioning that the government and television and in books is imprinted in peoples brains, and its hard to undo that other than to teach open minded people and the youth which are not so far gone yet. :)

[Zeke]

Are there really Indians that think they have to be uneducated and poor to be Indian?

YES!

...nobody is staying poor to keep their Indian identity. Or forsaking education for it. It's ALWAYS other circumstances that get in the way...

Please, detail these "circumstances," and how every last one of them doesn't -- somehow -- come back around to personal responsibility.

Or is it really YOUR image of people on reservations that is the problem? Is it that YOU can't stand how you perceive people to be on your reservation? That they don't live up to YOUR standards?? That things would be so much better if they followed YOUR example?

I presume they'd be different. There aren't, fundamentally, many ways in which things could get worse...

And your definition of *ego* SUCKS!!

It's as good as any other definition designed to support a particular ideology.

[Asmajol]

The social conditioning that the government and television and in books is imprinted in peoples brains, and its hard to undo that other than to teach open minded people and the youth which are not so far gone yet. :)

Soooooooooo True not to mention the public education systems books.

[injunboy]

ecological noble savage crap, u just made that up huh? i read the thread and dont agree with most of it. because here on the rez the dominant religon is still our own. all families have a hogan for cermonies and gatherings. just like mine its made of natural materials, mine is logs, and it has a dirt floor. i love it. i guess were from differnt regions cause its the first time i heard of ENSC. theres a alot of the population here that still dont have electric or running water. thats not a crappy thing its actually a good thing. i look forward to my time living in the hogan.

i didnt know thousands are suffering from ENSC.

[Blackbear]

Wyo... I don't thnk that's what they actually think , that you need to be uneducated and poor, but I've seen it as a reaction of self defense and jealousy to the educated and well off or rich when someone thinks they are being all "boozhyee". Telling people they sound like white indians and whatnot.... especially if you have a large vocab and don't use slang all the time.

[soopashinaab]

What are the symptoms of ENSC??? Maybe we need to contact the CDC so we don't have an outbreak of ENSC!! Should we quarantine the thousands that already have ENSC?? Do you think the CDC can help with ENSC, or maybe they can help the BIA.

O.K. I'll shut up now...