Another stereotype addressed : "No One Owns the Land"

[IlnuSoldier]

Alright, here is another stereotype :

"The great spirit gave this land for all to share. No man can claim ownership over the land. It belongs to no one."


Really?

Then why do so many NDNs fight tooth and nail for land, land rights, and land ownership ?

What? What did you say ? Treaty Rights ? You believe you can fight over the land because of Treaty Rights ? According to the above stereotyoe -- Treaties are bunk..

..Because "no man"--- and that means the Great White Father NOR the NDN ---- can enter into an agreement on who gets what land..

If no man owns the land--- then White people cannot lay claim to the land --- BUT NEITHER CAN NDNS


Alright--- I've lit the fire.... let run with this bad boy and see where it goes.

[wyo_rose]

Why does anyone fight tooth and nail? SURVIVAL!

Is that really a stereotype? Stereotype - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[IlnuSoldier]

Yea, you just proved my point ----- The tooth and nail fight is for SURVIVAL OF THE PEOPLE and not any kind of sacred ideology related to the land itself..

...thus, the idea that indians don't perceive land ownership is DISPROVEN and the idea that indians are struggling to protect the land itself is DISPROVEN.

Thus, by disproving one part of the spectrum, we can begin to focus on the other parts--- one of which states that indians are fighting for their own selves--- which is not bad or wrong in anyway--- but it does carry with it the idea that "whites fight for whites" and "indians fight for indians"..

...so in the end, nobody is more noble than anyone else ( which dovetails into my other post).

[wyo_rose]

Cool!

[Josiah]

Why does it have to be noble?
Court battles over treaty rights are boring and take years and years to settle

When the very first Indian tribes entered into treaty arraingments in the 1700's the old notion that no one owns the land cease to exist!

So what you are describing has not been a concept in some tribes in 300 years!

So what tribes are you talking about???

[IlnuSoldier]

I am not talking about the tribes-- but the "idea" in general...

This particular "idea" (stereotype) is actually usually initiated and kept alive by non-NDNs.. but sometimes you will find NDNs using it... especially in relation to the "one with nature" thing I was talking about in the other post.

[Josiah]

I am not talking about the tribes-- but the "idea" in general...

This particular "idea" (stereotype) is actually usually initiated and kept alive by non-NDNs.. but sometimes you will find NDNs using it... especially in relation to the "one with nature" thing I was talking about in the other post.

Yes well the one with nature bunch has alot of strange notions
Funny thing is I hardly ever see them in ndn country they are usually found FARRRRR from there

[Blackbear]

the concept of land ownership... the fact that a piece of paper with writing and someone's signature tells you that you own this patch of earth that is so many feet or acres by so many feet or acres, located between this or that landmark, in this or that region ..... yeah why would the ancestors have that concept of owning land? But they did have the concept that this or that area is where they live (seasonally or not), hunt, fish.... and they defended that for survival almost like it was their property.

[injunboy]

hmm the moon and antractica.. bout the only two i can think of right now that have been conquered by the white man and lived to tell about it.

land is a fundamental thing. ur always gonna have to put your feet somewhere or lay yer head down. the differance is no navajo or otherwise will 'sell' their land. it seems like for other races if the price is right its yours. i already know what yer thinkin we dont actually own the land.. but theres grazing permits and homesites that u can have.

now that i think about it. grandmothers have been selling out for yrs. more like duped out their rights lol but somehow we got alot of coal mines, uranium mines, all kinds of natural resources leaving the the land.

haha, im not sure what im saying anymore..

i just know the land i got is predestined to go to my family. just like how i got it.

[outershell]

it started with this:

How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. If we do not own the freshness of the air and sparkle of the water, how can you buy them?

Every part of this earth is sacred to my people.

Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people. The sap which courses through the trees carries the memories of the red man.

The white man's dead forget the country of their birth when they go to walk among the stars. Our dead never forget this beautiful earth, for it is the mother of the red man.

We are part of the earth and it is part of us.

The perfumed flowers are our sisters; the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers.

The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows, the body heat of the pony, and man--all belong to the same family.

So, when the Great Chief in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy land, he asks much of us. The Great Chief sends word he will reserve us a place so that we can live comfortably to ourselves.

He will be our father and we will be his children. So we will consider your offer to buy our land.

But it will not be easy. For this land is sacred to us.

This shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water but the blood of our ancestors.

If we sell you land, you must remember that it is sacred, and you must teach your children that it is sacred and that each ghostly reflection in the clear water of the lakes tells of events and memories in the life of my people.

this is usually attributed to Chief Seattle.(Skokomish)

[oldnana]

Alright, here is another stereotype :

"The great spirit gave this land for all to share. No man can claim ownership over the land. It belongs to no one."


Really?

Then why do so many NDNs fight tooth and nail for land, land rights, and land ownership ?

What? What did you say ? Treaty Rights ? You believe you can fight over the land because of Treaty Rights ? According to the above stereotyoe -- Treaties are bunk..

..Because "no man"--- and that means the Great White Father NOR the NDN ---- can enter into an agreement on who gets what land..

If no man owns the land--- then White people cannot lay claim to the land --- BUT NEITHER CAN NDNS


Alright--- I've lit the fire.... let run with this bad boy and see where it goes.

NDN never clamed to own the land.Only thr Great Spiest who made it owned it. NDN were put there as caretakers.We fought for our ways of life and for the land the GreatSpirit gave us to care for.oldnana

[Joe's Dad]

In the end...when all is said and done...all you got is your word.