Only Indians can use eagle feathers...

[MtnLiving]

I hear ya.

[Zeke]

Are you serious?!!

In Montana, people know that you can't even keep an eagle feather if you find one that came off a bird....you have to call the game warden or a park ranger and turn it in. I honestly have no idea what they do with it after that though.

One of my sons friends got into some trouble bringing an eagle feather to show and tell one day. Yep, the game warden was called to the school over this and this was in a 1st grade class.

I'll say it:

THAT'S LAME.

[MtnLiving]

I've seen a lot of non Indians dancing with eagle feathers, with eagle feathers in their cowboy hats and with eagle feathers hanging off their rear view mirrors. I wonder if this ruling will cause enforcement of cracking down on non Indians who have eagle feathers?????

Are you serious?!!

In Montana, people know that you can't even keep an eagle feather if you find one that came off a bird....you have to call the game warden or a park ranger and turn it in. I honestly have no idea what they do with it after that though.

One of my sons friends got into some trouble bringing an eagle feather to show and tell one day. Yep, the game warden was called to the school over this and this was in a 1st grade class.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Growing pains, ouch! The average agent now is very young, a city-slicker, raised by MTV, not big on culture/history/religion, so they need seasoning while on the job. After 9/11/01 we had a lot of training on Muslim culture, and how to be sensitive. The only thing I ever heard about Natives was "Don't Mess with The Indians"...that was it!

Very serious incidents on the Akwesasne Rez and down over on Tohono O'odham lands finally lead to creation in 2008 of our National Native American Liaison Program. I have had Kumeyaay Elders speak to our agents here in San Diego, while other program managers around the U.S. have similar presentations.

I instruct a one-hour Native American cultural awareness course to our new recruits with emphasis on the many distinct cultures here in the U.S. (Canada, Mexico, and Central America included). I show on a map where all the reservation boundaries are in San Diego County, talk about legalities and formalities while on Rez lands.

We go over the items you could see while talking with Natives (at one of our highway checkpoints) feathers, peyote, sage, greasewood, herbs, animal skins and furs, regalia, Bird rattles, etc. I play one of my powwow DVD's and explain how the Powwow Trail winds through southern Calif each year.

I include a warning about California New Agers and hippies running around with a lot of the same stuff. We watch for cultural items, historical items, poachers & looters at the same time. Old Kumeyaay grinding stones "metates" are a black market favorite. Rich white people want these things, pay big $$$. Burial urns...! Sad but true.

The answer is: Things are getting better all the time. None of my guys will be taking feathers away from anybody that is not a poacher or a hippy. We look at ID's, papers, permits, trucking manifests, passports etc all day / all night long. Looking at an eagle permit should not take more than a couple of minutes. Listening about how they forgot their permit at home might take a couple more minutes, but we would not want them to be late for Grand Entry....LOL. "Thank you and drive safely"

[BigChef]

Thanks for your answer. Out of curiousity, is the average bp field agent trained in recognizining and understanding what permits looks like and the rights they entail? I know everyone of you are stellar examples of perfection, but some times its damn cold and windy when working long hours.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Stop The Poachers is Job #1.

While on duty, with safety being the first concern, I am expected to intervene upon all federal felonies committed "in my presence".

If the evidence is right there (eagle parts), I can seize it, and turn it over later to the federal Fish & Wildlife Agents, or State Game Wardens. I can also detain (arrest) a poacher with probable cause, and hold them for F&WS. They would take the poacher to court, just need a written statement from me. I might have to take the stand, prolly not if my report is well-written.

Same goes for NAGPRA violations, the robbers of graves really irk me. There goes my blood pressure LOL. If I ever caught somebody vandalizing a sacred site...I dunno...

Can I ask for Eagle permits? Yes, but would only do so when the totality of circumstances caused me to suspect something was wrong. Even then, I am respectful and fair...no need to mess with people.

I can feel the vibes when something's not right. My right ear twitches, LOL.

Federal tribal ID is "on the spot" proof of enrollment, and the federally-protected right to use eagle feathers is part of enrollment. The eagle feathers still have to be accounted for with permits, even though they have no markings, serial numbers. Amibiguous is a fancy word one of our lawyers learned us, I think it means "hard to sort out" LOL

A reasonable agent will know how to handle each situation. We are promoting cultural awareness and respect all the time, making gains in knowledge.

At the recent UA powwow, I stopped at the booth of a Huichol gentleman that I have seen around pw's for years. He never knew my job, I thought he knew already, so I pulled out a business card, and he lit up like the 4th of Ju-ly!

Turns out my coworkers had detained him for hours because he was carrying a small amount of ceremonial peyote. He still had fire in his eyes, but we talked it over...and now we are "amigos". He let me stash my camera stuff at this booth, so I could film and burn DVD's for dancers.

Sorry for long story, I thought the Govt shut down! Hmm...Laterz BigChef Dude!

[yaahl]

So Whome, following your logic, if a FN from Canada travels to the US how does the US recognize a Canadian FN since they wouldn't be US federally recognized? I understand your comment was intended to the non-native carrying a feather but how does it apply to Canadians FN?

For example, in the Yukon, the first 7 of 14 FN to settle their land claim/self government did away with government status cards and opted for our own ID cards. I have a feather permit that I got from the US years ago but since then we've settled our land claim? How does the US reconcile that they aren't the only ones with FN people? Since Canada is a sovereign state... the use is hardly in the position to tell us who is Indian and who is not.

[BigChef]

I'ma learn some of you something. In the eyes of "da man"...
1 if your feathers did not come direct from the Eagle repository to you (as a federally recognized Indian who applied for the feathers), or
2 from someone got the feathers from the repository and gave them to you a federally recognized Indian(of their own free will- no trade or money involved), or
3 the feathers are older than dirt (or the 50's or whatever the magic date is),
Your feathers are illegal. . (period). .

If your feathers are post "magic date" and you can not prove you are a federally recognized Indian who either A) received the feathers yourself from the repository, or 2) received them from a fed rec Indian who received the feathers from the repository... your feathers are "illegal".

If you can't show your documentation for receiving them from the repository, or supply the name of who you got them from and they can find the documentation regarding the feathers- species and parts sent to your benefactor... your feathers are illegal. Even if you are a card carrying full blooded native from God's favorite tribe with your tribal card in one hand and your CIB (CDIB for other tribes) in the other.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean you are going to court if you did not get your feathers through the suppository. If you don't have a rep for selling, or trading feathers, you should'nt have to worry... Fish and Game isn't too worried about you (especially if you look Indian, if you don't you may raise a few eyebrows if a Fish and Game/Wildlife agent sees you cruising down the street in your warbonnet).

Oye, Amigo! Question for you since you mentioned all agencies are on the look out for Eagle murderers. Here is your senario, as a non fish and game agent you see a vehicle that for whatever reason you believe contains a poacher and poached Eagles. As a non Fish and Game agent, I assume all you can do is forward whatever information you gather regarding the vehicle and driver to fish and game, correct? Or can you ask for Eagle permits? I'm curious but dont kill Jd's cat. I'm as unclear on that subject as the majority of people I know who thinks their tribal card makes all their feathers legal (they technically aren't even though they probably will never have any hassle over them)

Mitaco's agreezin!

[WhoMe]

An old joke about to be dug up from the grave.

Pine Ridge is half white, Lower Brule is half black and

Crow Creek is half off.

wan,

And which oyate watched the horses while the "real Lakota" were fighting Custer at the greasy grass?

[wanjica_the_one]

1. You KNOW I'm not concerned: but apology unilaterally accepted.
2. I just thought it was hilarious that you both went Pine Ridge on me!

An old joke about to be dug up from the grave.

Pine Ridge is half white, Lower Brule is half black and

Crow Creek is half off.

[Grits & Beans]

Let me apologize to the posters in this thread. I should not have let a post get to me.

Jim

its all puddin'

[Grits & Beans]

You are SoOoOoOo busted! I knew you weren't ndn!!! HAHA! In reality you are a Russian spy bent on bringing Soviet style communism to the U.S.A.!

gotta keep it a secret

[Zeke]

Let me apologize to the posters in this thread. I should not have let a post get to me.

Jim

1. You KNOW I'm not concerned: but apology unilaterally accepted.
2. I just thought it was hilarious that you both went Pine Ridge on me!

[Toolbox]

i don't see anywhere in jd's post that he insulted your family.

to get back on topic- the law is the law. but i'll be sure to keep 50 dollars on me just in case i come across a fish and wildlife agent

You are SoOoOoOo busted! I knew you weren't ndn!!! HAHA! In reality you are a Russian spy bent on bringing Soviet style communism to the U.S.A.!

[Joe's Dad]

Are folks really whipping out their Pine Ridge phalluses?

SERIOUSLY?

Joe's Dad is a stand up man and good people.

Let me apologize to the posters in this thread. I should not have let a post get to me.

Jim