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  • Firewater and NDN

    With other words, this thread is about ALCOHOL !

    This is a sensitive subject, but after reading "Crazywater" by Brian Miracle, I HAD TO create this thread!


    Brian Maracle is an award-winning writer and a Mohawk, originally from the Six Nations Grand River Territory near Brantford, Ontario. During the 1970s he worked for Indian organizations at the local, provincial, and national levels, and since the early 1980s he has worked as a print and broadcast journalist specializing in native issues. He is a former host of the CBC Radio program, "Our Native Land", and a former reporter for "The Globe and Mail".

    Many of you may get angry and accuse me for talking about this, and in addition, being white, does not make things simpler. Whatever, if this thread can be of any help for anybody, I have already fulfilled something, even if some of you get angry at me!
    The thread is created for all of you for whom alcohol is your enemy, or even worse, your “friend”!

    To get the thread started, here are some statements from the book:
    Page 2:
    Alcoholism is just a symptom of the fundamental problems facing native people – problems that cannot be solved by half-measures in isolation. The ultimate resolution of native alcoholism will require a combination of spiritual, cultural, social, economic and political action.

    Page 9:
    We have lost our languages, medicines and religions. We have lost our pride, dignity and confidence. We have lost our family values, social patterns and political structures. We have lost our stewardship over the land. We have lost control of our lives and our destiny. We have lost almost everything a race of people can lose.

    Page 10:
    … we have no idea who we really are; have no idea who we should be; and have no way of becoming the person we should and could have become.

    A couple of old threads on this forum:
    «Alcohol suspected in teen's death at Flathead» from 05-03-2004
    Resume: «Law enforcement on the Flathead Reservation of Montana suspect the death of a 15-year-old boy is linked to alcohol.».
    «Alcohol and powwows» from 10-31-2006
    «Bizarre Alcohol Trivia» from 06-03-2005

    Some questions (please add your own):
    • What do you think about this subject?
    • What can be done in order to help the ones who need help?
    • What are the causes for Alcohol-misuse?
    • Is it too easy to buy alcohol for the young?
    • ...?


    Added later on:
    It looks like I took a superior position in this thread.
    This was NOT my purpose! I created this thread as a place to post questions and hopefully provide some possible answer.
    Many of you out there know this subject far better than me, and i would be more than happy for your comments.
    Last edited by GoggenGH; 08-10-2011, 01:21 PM.

    Happiness does not come from happiness itself, but from the journey towards achieving it.
    You can never be happy at the expense of the happiness of others.

  • #2
    Goggy, anything written by Brian Maracle is worth sharing...in fact, worth promoting here on Powwows.com
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Old Spice and Listerine are the real firewaters for some.
      Wanjica Infinity No One

      Comment


      • #4
        AQUA-NET HAIRSPRAY

        I seen that at Safeway in Gallup, stacked 6 feet high on a pallet right at the entrance. The White Devils would sell that on Sundays all day.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by wanjica_the_one View Post
          Old Spice and Listerine are the real firewaters for some.
          Originally posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
          AQUA-NET HAIRSPRAY
          I seen that at Safeway in Gallup, stacked 6 feet high on a pallet right at the entrance. The White Devils would sell that on Sundays all day.
          And in many cases, these "substitutes" are even more harmful than alcohol!

          I would like to know, the "devils" like this, are they most of the time white, or are there also many NDN selling alcohols and stuff like that?

          This site may have useful information: http://www.soberrecovery.com/

          At the time I wrote this, it had a total of 82 400 members, 145 891 threads and 2 219 140 posts. They accept new registrations.

          Among many other things, they have a forum: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/

          Happiness does not come from happiness itself, but from the journey towards achieving it.
          You can never be happy at the expense of the happiness of others.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
            Goggy, anything written by Brian Maracle is worth sharing...in fact, worth promoting here on Powwows.com
            I'm more than happy to do that!!! Here is another on his books that I have read:

            Hardcover: 316 pages
            Publisher: Viking/Allen Lane; First Edition edition (April 25, 1996)
            ISBN-13: 978-0670859153
            Can be found at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Back-Rez-Brian...2526763&sr=8-1

            Happiness does not come from happiness itself, but from the journey towards achieving it.
            You can never be happy at the expense of the happiness of others.

            Comment


            • #7
              Have you read about the town of White Clay?

              http://www.dickshovel.com/wc.html
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
                Have you read about the town of White Clay?

                http://www.dickshovel.com/wc.html
                Thanks for telling me about White Clay!!!!
                What kind of conscience does man like Don Schwarting (liquor store owner) have, if he has any?
                A white man's place, with a population of about 30 persons, and you find 4 liquor stores, Jumping Eagle Inn - D&S Pioneer Service - State Line Liquor - Arrowhead Inn !!!
                What a SAD record!!!!

                "There is clearly a need for treatment of alcoholics on the reservation and it frustrates tribal leaders that of the tens of thousands of dollars paid in liquor taxes to Nebraska, none of it is used to help native people get the treatment needed to break their cycle of addiction."

                I found a brief history of Whiteclay here: http://battleforwhiteclay.org/?page_id=140
                And this article: "Whiteclay a village on the edge" from Sunday, July 18, 2010 8:00 am
                "WHITECLAY, Neb. — Business is booming in Whiteclay, and it’s not just the 4.6 million cans of beer sold there last year."
                Last edited by GoggenGH; 08-05-2011, 02:39 PM.

                Happiness does not come from happiness itself, but from the journey towards achieving it.
                You can never be happy at the expense of the happiness of others.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
                  Have you read about the town of White Clay?

                  http://www.dickshovel.com/wc.html
                  I was on that rez visiting friends during that time.

                  Damn, that was a lifetime ago.

                  It was said that Whiteclay had 12 reidents and made $27,000 in alcohol taxes that year.


                  Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


                  "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

                  Mr. Rossie Freeman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Kerosene

                    My great-grandfather had a still on the mountain, like so many others did. But if he was ill and bedridden he would get the shakes. His wife and eldest son found him drinking Kerosene. He survived that, until his still blew up and he couldn't outrun the fire on Purgatory Mountain.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I would like to know, the "devils" like this, are they most of the time white, or are there also many NDN selling alcohols and stuff like that?


                      Goggy, the alcohol is LEGAL to sell, the liquor store owners are like parasites sucking the blood out of their host.

                      Is it ETHICAL to sell alcohol in an area where many persons suffer from alcoholism?

                      The poor inner-cities are now trying to limit liquor store licenses. At first they thought the sales tax revenue would help.

                      The long term effect is harmful to the neighborhood with alcohol being sold to problem drinkers. Some cities are limiting new liquor stores, and the 40 ounce bottles favored by most alcoholics.

                      Social responsibility.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Yes, I know it’s legal to sell, but (as you said) they are also for me like “parasites sucking the blood” and I consider it ETHICAL wrong!
                        Is it ethical correct to sell alcohol to an addicted person, not able to control him/herself?

                        Based on the data for 2010 from U.S. Census Bureau: http://factfinder2.census.gov, there was JUST 2 white and 8 NDN living there, but in 2000, according to http://www.area-codes.com/city/city....city=WHITECLAY, the population was 62 (14 NDN and 48 white).

                        I was hoping this thread would provoke some posts, support it or against it, but nobody seems to be concern.
                        Are there NOBODY out there with past or current experience with alcohol and with something to say???
                        Let me hear your “voice”!

                        Happiness does not come from happiness itself, but from the journey towards achieving it.
                        You can never be happy at the expense of the happiness of others.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          THE TWELVE STEPS OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS

                          1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable.

                          2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

                          3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

                          4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

                          5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

                          6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

                          7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

                          8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

                          9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

                          10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

                          11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

                          12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

                          Any comments?

                          Happiness does not come from happiness itself, but from the journey towards achieving it.
                          You can never be happy at the expense of the happiness of others.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yep, alcohol is, for the most part, terrible. There are some natives that can enjoy a couple drinks, go home and be fine. But the majority of natives have BiG problems with alcohol...me included.
                            ...it is what it is...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GoggenGH View Post
                              I was hoping this thread would provoke some posts, support it or against it, but nobody seems to be concern.
                              With all due respect... Perhaps, we are tired of outsiders coming and demanding we discuss the problems within our communities with them. Perhaps we are tired of the dominant culture constantly viewing us through the lens of dysfunction. Perhaps our personal experiences are just that personal.

                              Comment

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