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  • Who are the Saponi

    I been doing some research on the Saponi name, I found out that the name came from Africa. Slaves came all over africa and interbreeded with whites and natives Americans over the many years, so its hard to tell if Saponi's are native America. Can any of you Saponi find more information on the Saponi past and how you came to be Saponi, reason asking beacuase many of you are black, if some of you are native it has to be Ocaneechee. Do your research and find out.
    Last edited by techbean2002; 01-13-2004, 12:55 AM.
    you just can't tell. wanna be hunter!!!!

  • #2
    Careful About Native Names

    I spent some time in Southern Virginia and visited Northern North Carolina many years ago and I saw many a Saponi from Halifax to Roanoke Rapids to Elizabeth City to Suffolk and they were not Black by any means. But like many races there was a mix that could be seen. And this can be seen more in the South East and the extreme Southern West.

    We must remember that all words in any language can have parallel words in another language. These words may appear to be the same depending on the many spellings and many pronuciations but they are of course different. Thus a term or word can be found to be in many places and languages at the same time. And the biggest cause of this is that Whites often used non Indigenous Words for Indigenous Words and Names for any Culture. Why else would one be able to find English Names for something in India and Africa, or French Names for something in Africa and South East Asia, and so forth. Not to mention Cultures in foreign places using their language for names in the new country such as African and other cultural words used for names in the Americas.

    And like many Native American Terms and Words the name Saponi has many spellings depening on who spelled it and who pronounced it first and then continued to change it.

    Perfect Example: SANTEE. This name is used for tribes in both the Plains and the South East. But they are two completely different Native American Tribes. At some point in time the Whites decided to pronouce and spell the name SANTEE the same way for both Tribes.

    One can even trace the Saponi name to the following names:

    Occaneechie (many spellings of this), Eno, Oconee, Ono, One & Oni (both prounounced "on nee"), and even Potoni.

    We may never really know as Linguistics is like History - accurate only to point and that point is usually subjective also.

    Comment


    • #3
      IMO - I think teachbean is getting Haliwa-Saponi mixed up with the Occanechie (ever who you spell it!) band of Saponi Indians who I came to know as Eno-Och .....
      Becky B.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Careful About Native Names

        Originally posted by Tom Iron Eagle

        Perfect Example: SANTEE. This name is used for tribes in both the Plains and the South East. But they are two completely different Native American Tribes. At some point in time the Whites decided to pronouce and spell the name SANTEE the same way for both Tribes.
        Iron Eagle:

        Your post is valid. Language simularities are real among diverse cultures.

        Also . .

        Your use of Santee is also valid. The Santee Dakota can be traced to the Catawba of the Carolinas in relationship. This band supposedly migrated from the Carolinas to Minnesota before being dispursed to their present locations in Canada, Minnesota, South Dakota and Nebraska.
        Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

        Comment


        • #5
          I have done a fair amount of research on the indian peoples of va, nc and sc. I have never saw a reference to the saponi name being african. In some of the earliest colonial records (1600's and early 1700's) the saponi are identified as being an indian tribe. There being some african ancestry in the Saponi groups now has no bearing on the true origins of the Saponi name.

          Comment


          • #6
            Watch it!

            Techbean....

            I think Tom Iron Eagle explained it best.

            Now hear it from a real Saponi (and this is not a threat but a suggestion and a promise), get ALL of your facts straight and not leave anything behind in the future with narrow minded thoughts. Trying to claim anyone Nation of people (no matter if the people are Saponi, Lumbee, Cherokee, Kiowa, Pawnee, Ponca, Otoe, etc.) is anything other than what they are, will get you in hot water on this board. I don't know what your point was in posting such trash, and it may have very well been to get someone "rowd up".

            Be careful of the waters you tread!

            Jason Evans - Red Oak Singers
            Last edited by LSS; 01-18-2004, 10:34 PM.
            To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

            When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

            Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

            Comment


            • #7
              Saponi.

              Saponi is believed to be a corruption of Monasiccapano or Monasukapanough, according to David Bushnell (1930). The meaning is believed to be from the words "moni-seep", meaning "shallow water." Their closest relatives are the Tutelo.

              James Mooney says the Saponi and Tutelo were remnants of the Manahoac and Monacan tribes. And after leaving Ft. Christianna, Virginia, they settled among the Iroqouis and were adopted by the Cayuga in 1753.

              Comment


              • #8
                Techbean, you need to be very careful on how you bring something to this board. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

                If you have a question about the Saponi tribe, why don't you just ask someone from the Saponi tribe. You'll get better info that way. I do believe that the Haliwa-Saponi tribe has a web site, just look it up.
                Through the good times and bad times, always pray.

                Comment


                • #9
                  watch it 2nd

                  Are any of the Saponi tribes recognized by the USA government? Yes I did speak to many Saponi on this issue. But they tell me many stories and none of them know their history, even I don’t know the Saponi history to an extent. Back in Ft. Christiania, they were blacks, assort of natives and whites and over the years they interbreed with each other. Now as of today it is hard to tell who is native this is what I am trying to get at. But there was a tribe called the Saponi that came from Africa and were slaves at that period of time. Now can you trace back to your roots, like the Ojibwa, Sioux, Apache etc.? Now I do believe that you and many others may be one of those native people that were at Ft. Christiania.
                  you just can't tell. wanna be hunter!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i dont know who you think you are or where you get your info from but my people are far from black. the most common saponi people are my people and we reside in the meadows of hollister nc. i happen to be a very proud tribal member and a member of a very respected drum group [stoney creek]. and dont appreciate what you said. i think you need to get your facts straight. we have a very strong history. we may not be recognized by the federal government but that doesnt make us any more or less native . so i suggest you get your facts together . this is nathan harris just so you know i dont have to hide my identity....
                    "yo, ADRIAN!" :Lips:

                    "It is this belief in a power larger than myself and other than myself which allows me to venture into the unknown and even the unknowable."
                    --Maya Angelou

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      techbean your getting the melungeons confused with the saponis, documents as early as the 1580's before african slaves in the east coast list saponi. James Smith lists saponi, nathaniel bacon massacred saponi etc etc. Anyway saponi were listed way before fort christiana. There was almost no intermarriage with blacks until the 20th century.

                      The melungeons however are a triracial group of people who live in the appalachian mountains mostly of black, indian and white. They can be identified by their last names and also their relative isolation from other appalachian communities.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey Nathan...glad to see you posted!

                        I was wondering when someone else from back home would reply back to this thread!

                        Jason
                        To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

                        When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

                        Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I have a tendency to stay away from controversy but I'm just passing through to drop a dime on this one. Being Black is not a disease and hatred is NOT a family value. I ain't mad, just puttin my pennies on the table. lol

                          I know a few Saponi. I always thought of them as Saponi. Didn't care as long as they were being who they truly are. Some suck. Some are hella cool. LOL I'm Black and Cherokee. When I die and this shell is laid to rest.... I'll get to see my folks. They won't be looking at the color of my skin (uhhhh could be cause I won't have any lmfao). Anyways.... Life is too damn short. Fight battles that matter--- like the effects and affects of drugs, alcohol, abuse, gang violence, and such have on our people as a whole. Talk to our daughters to get them to see how beautiful they really are regardless of what society says. Teach them how to respect themselves and not lower their standards or their drawers. Show them that the sky's the limit, success is able to be achieved, and plant seeds for our future. Teach our sons how to be men. That real men can and do cry. That they need to take care of all the babies they're out there making. How to respect women and that without us they wouldn't be here (hence the need to stop refering to their counterparts as pieces of meat, hoez, tricks, beotches, etc.). How to fight for what they believe in and there is no shame in being who you truly are. To hell with the pissing contest man... hard times are here but believe me harder times are on the way. If we can't get our sorry asses together we're screwed. No one has a heaven or hell to put you in (can put you through but not in) so come on already.

                          Have a good day. :)
                          SHAKE IT!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ajlumbee
                            i dont know who you think you are or where you get your info from but my people are far from black. the most common saponi people are my people and we reside in the meadows of hollister nc. i happen to be a very proud tribal member and a member of a very respected drum group [stoney creek]. and dont appreciate what you said. i think you need to get your facts straight. we have a very strong history. we may not be recognized by the federal government but that doesnt make us any more or less native . so i suggest you get your facts together . this is nathan harris just so you know i dont have to hide my identity....
                            Get this person straight Nathan. Sounds like to me that they just don't want to listen to sound reasoning .

                            Hey Hollywood, maybe if they would come to y'alls powwow, then they could get their questions answered ;) .

                            Nathan, go ahead and crank off a couple of your best Stoney Creek songs for techbean. Maybe they will start to get a clue.
                            Through the good times and bad times, always pray.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Who are the Saponi

                              Originally posted by techbean2002
                              I been doing some research on the Saponi name, I found out that the name came from Africa. Slaves came all over africa and interbreeded with whites and natives Americans over the many years, so its hard to tell if Saponi's are native America. Can any of you Saponi find more information on the Saponi past and how you came to be Saponi, reason asking beacuase many of you are black, if some of you are native it has to be Ocaneechee. Do your research and find out.
                              I am not Saponi and I for one am greatly offended by this statement. I am Lumbee, and this is Adrian Jacobs. I think teachbean, like dancing eagle said, that maybe you should come out to the Haliwa-Saponi powwow in April (info is in powwow post) and ask these questions in person if you are so curious to know. I agree with Singing Otter that being black is not a disease. One cannot change who they are, but it is wrong to falsely label a group of native people as being someone other than who they are. Don't all of us as natives get this crap all the time from the rest of the world? Why fuel the hateration amongst ourselves.
                              "yo, ADRIAN!" :Lips:

                              "It is this belief in a power larger than myself and other than myself which allows me to venture into the unknown and even the unknowable."
                              --Maya Angelou

                              Comment

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