Women in Regalia Part 2.. white dancer discussion Part 1001

[Kakeeya]

Originally posted by Mato Winyan
Oh... and glad to see you pay attention to my posts! ;) :)

I pay attention to whatever I read, whether I agree with it or not. :)

Originally posted by Jinglin Chica
We can't change how they are, short of ... nevermind. ;) :)

Say it JC! :Chatter

Just kidding! :Chatter

[Singing Eagle]

Originally posted by ojibwaysweetie
You see, people. This is a prime example of what I meant when I said.."the most ultimate respect white people can give us, is to leave all of our ways and traditions ALONE". They got no business puttin their nose all up in our ways.

Right on!:D

[Blackbear]

yeah like she said...

What I am tired of is something being discussed to death and nothing changes.. people don't get the point.. attitudes still stay the same. No new input. No resolution.

the discussion never changes.. the white dancers say (ok not all.. using a particular example here)," I can dance in full dressage anywhere , anytime and I'm accepted and encouraged".
Everyone else says, "yeah right".

What is tiring is that nothing gets through the thick skulls unless we were to LIE and say.. oh yeah, you are ok, you are doing right, you have every right... cause that's all they want to hear. And that's why they always seem shocked when they come here.. cause they finally get to hear what is whispered behind their backs at real powwows.

[Riverwoman]

Originally posted by Kakeeya
Our Whipmen and Whipwomen would escort you out too or you would have to suffer the consequences.

:clapping:

[ojibwaysweetie]

Originally posted by Kakeeya
You might be tired of hearing this argument over and over, but it still needs to be said cuz there are still wannabees out there like C Rock that think that what they are doing is fine with all Natives. So as long as they keep popping up and running their mouths at the rest of us native people then we will have to continue to tell them that what they are doing isn't accepted by ALL of us or most of us.

That is so true. When I come on here and I read posts such as that CRock's..dang straight I'm gonna respond to such ignorance. Am I just to sit and say "oh, it'll be ok"? Not this ikwe. I'm going to say what I think and what I feel. And if it is posted 1005 times, then as long as I am here I will respond 1005 times.

[geronimo]

if c rock could only learn to spell JUDGMENT correctly, i could move on and enjoy a happy and fulfilled life---
HURRY, please post soon and spell j-u-d-g-m-e-n-t :helpdesk:

other than correcting your failure to use correct grammar/spelling..i have no use for you...ta ta

[Suzizila]

Ok, I've read through the posts in this thread and will leap in here. Hopefully, I will not get jumped on for being honest with what I have observed here. With all the crap non ndn people have presented, I think I can understand where you all are coming from. I won't say I'm something that I am not or go preaching about how things are done. Not not me and not my position......especially when it is not my culture. It is the people who go around inventing traditions who give all non ndn people a bad name when it comes to powwows. I've seen it happen in Ohio. There are a lot of road kill dancers and Ebay dancers....not to mention the Tandy clan who do some pretty wierd stuff....& say to heck with protocol. Then you have non ndn people who take the time to learn how things are done the right way and follow protocol. Because of all the crap that has happened and how ndn people have been treated by the dancers mentioned above, it is easy to understand where you are coming from.

Much of what I have learned has come from observation and involvement in native groups in my area. I have danced since I was in highschool. Because I wanted to see the reality side of contemporary ndn culture, I decided to volunteer at a school on the Pine Ridge rez(Our Lady of Lourdes, Porcupine). As part of that decision, I left all of my dance clothing at home. Why?.....because I didn't know how people would react...especially with me being a new comer and non ndn. What was really interesting is that I told the 2nd grade teacher (a full blood Lakota) about my decision & she told me that I should have brought my dance clothing. At the Labor Day weekend powwow in Porcupine that year, I saw some IHS guy (non ndn) dancing as well. It was a tough call, but I was there to learn. Last summer, I was at this powwow hosted by the Miami Valley Council for Native Americans (Ohio). I had danced there before(only intertribals and exhibition dances....no contesting, but I doubt I would feel comfortable contesting even if I could), but this time I was singing with a southern drum made up of ndns and non ndns. A friend of mine, who is Odawa, was there and made some comment about my dancing & that I decided to dance after I got back from SD. I let her know that I had been dancing longer than that. Then she made a comment about it being in my heart. (I know.......that must sound like a lot of that crap you have heard road kill ....Tandy clan dancers say, but it came out of her mouth.)

That's it for me. Please know that not all of us non ndn people are like the know it all, learned from the Costner Fire Dance Academy, books, and made up some new off the wall traditions crowd who likes to tell everyone how it's done. I've seen it around here and don't like it either. I know that everyone will not accept me because of all the crap that has gone on over the years ( and that is completely understandable as I would be pretty p'd off as well if I had to face that crap on a daily basis), but I told it all the best way I could.

Now let the games begin! lol :D (Hopefully not, but let it all come to pass. I will not be a hot headed know it all if it does. I've read the discussions. ) Oh, yes I am female & I was talking about being in regalia and dancing, so I guess it fits the discussion topic. lol :Chatter

[White Powwow Dancer]

Hi
My turn to jump into this firepit I was asked dance at a powwow too and they want to make me a dance outfit and I said no I was white. So don't jump on me for being white.
Chi Migwetch, WPD

[Singing Eagle]

Originally posted by C_Rock77
Just because she's "full-blooded," doesn't make her right. You know that as well as I do. You might not admit it, but you know it.

As for wanting to be Indian....No. I know who I am, and am proud of it. Just because I take part in this part of Indian culture, it doesn't mean I WANT to be Indian.

By the way....I WILL dance all I want. I'll also dance where I want. I've danced at many dances in TX and Oklahoma. I've not yet had the opportunity to go to any dances in the North, but have every intention of doing so in the future. I have native and non-native friends who have encouraged my following of these ways.

I gotta say something here and mato - don't boot me outta this place okay - I'm trying to do it in a good way!

While I can appreciate that you enjoy dancing and playing at being an NDN - you certainly must understand where we are coming from. You claim we are judging you - and what right do we have? We're not judging we're trying to say things that our people have wanted to say for a hundred years but couldn't because our voices were taken from us through colonization and residential schools.

We were taught by white people that what we have is wrong and should be put aside and we fought to keep it - many of us were brutalised over and over for speaking our language and for singing our songs. We were lined up and forced to cast our sacred items into a fire!

Now a hundred or so years later - white people think it's cool to have all these things - cool to sing all the songs and cool to dress up and play NDN?

I for one will stand up and say it's not cool - it's not okay for you to say she's wrong and who cares about her blood! You can say whatever you like to try to convince us that what you're doing is okay - you can mention all the names of everyone who has "taught" you or said it's okay - but it isn't okay now and will not be okay tomorrow or thwe next day or the next........

Our people are just getting their strength back after all that colonization has done to us - to all of us! have some respect and let us have what has always been and will always be ours.

That is our right and our responsibilty!

[Kiwehnzii]

If you boot her off, you'll hafta boot me off too. I agree 100% with what she said.

Read it again Crock. after you are done, read it again, and again,and again. I know it's difficult (well, impossible) for you to understand her point, but try, really try. We've went through enough.

At the very least, keep your dancing underground. In the backwoods of Arkansas or Pennsylvania or whereever hobbyists can do their thing in private and where you can prance all day and night and no-one will be the wiser.

I think we could live with that.

[BurBz]

Buuutttt you also gotta remember C-Rock and all you playing to be ndn... the eagle feathers are sacred and have their own power... and i've said it once before......

it may not affect you in life AT THIS VERY MOMENT... but later in life.. it will affect you OR your family for NOT getting proper blessings :D

[tradish_wiyan]

I agree with Singing Eagle.

[Kakeeya]

Originally posted by Burberrilish
Buuutttt you also gotta remember C-Rock and all you playing to be ndn... the eagle feathers are sacred and have their own power... and i've said it once before......

it may not affect you in life AT THIS VERY MOMENT... but later in life.. it will affect you OR your family for NOT getting proper blessings :D

Yes Burberrilish Good Point! And white people can't legally own eagle feathers anyway! So if they have them they are breaking Creators law and the white man's law.

[oneidagirl2003]

Originally posted by Singing Eagle
I gotta say something here and mato - don't boot me outta this place okay - I'm trying to do it in a good way!

While I can appreciate that you enjoy dancing and playing at being an NDN - you certainly must understand where we are coming from. You claim we are judging you - and what right do we have? We're not judging we're trying to say things that our people have wanted to say for a hundred years but couldn't because our voices were taken from us through colonization and residential schools.

We were taught by white people that what we have is wrong and should be put aside and we fought to keep it - many of us were brutalised over and over for speaking our language and for singing our songs. We were lined up and forced to cast our sacred items into a fire!

Now a hundred or so years later - white people think it's cool to have all these things - cool to sing all the songs and cool to dress up and play NDN?

I for one will stand up and say it's not cool - it's not okay for you to say she's wrong and who cares about her blood! You can say whatever you like to try to convince us that what you're doing is okay - you can mention all the names of everyone who has "taught" you or said it's okay - but it isn't okay now and will not be okay tomorrow or thwe next day or the next........

Our people are just getting their strength back after all that colonization has done to us - to all of us! have some respect and let us have what has always been and will always be ours.

That is our right and our responsibilty!

:clapping: I totally agree!!

[BurBz]

Originally posted by Kakeeya
Yes Burberrilish Good Point! And white people can't legally own eagle feathers anyway! So if they have them they are breaking Creators law and the white man's law.

Thats right huh! :devil He could get FINED up the assss for his ILLEGAL POSSESSION! :devil