Women in Regalia Part 2.. white dancer discussion Part 1001

[LadyRedtailedHawk]

Okie Dokie I posted earlier on another topic that I rarely get to be a meanie BUT when traditions are being flaunted and stomped on look out...welllllll :duel12: here goes..

<choosing words carefully as I saw the bear's posts of warning> AHEM

As a CHEROKEE and a female traditional dancer I will say this to C Rock 77 or whoever he thinks he is...

YOU ARE FULL OF CRAP and YOURSELF get over it! My husband is Blackfeet and Northern Traditional Dancer as well as a Chicken Dancer meaning he has TWO sets of regalia. Too many times have we went to gatherings and powwows and seen fools like yourself out in the arena with your "hand made" commerical from crazy catalog crap stomping around, bumping into people, going thr wrong direction in the arena, dancing BACKWARDS and making fools of yourself! Most often dear man it is one of us "older" women who ask the Arena Director to remove your BUTTS! You are white so be WHITE, we all know white men cannot dance :rofl2: Our dances are prayers they are important to us and not some danged "Dances With Wolves" "looks cool" stomp! YOU have NO right to jump at others or tell ANYONE what you have the RIGHT to do until such time as you can prove yourself being worthy of it! That requires being ndn, being raised in the ndn ways or with LOOOOOOONG study, observation and mentoring from an elder male ndn and even then your worthiness if still questionable!

I am an Indian woman and I do not go to social dances and try to dance the irish jig nor do I don my husband's regalia (except for switch dances..and I might say :muscles: I am one awesome traditional dancer and can do a sneak up like most men would love to! The point is....do not insult us by playing at our traditions and no not disrespect the other dancers by trying to be NDN and making yourself look like 99.9% of the wannabe twinkies who go to intertribal powwows...LIKE IDIOTS! Be what you are WHITE..appreciate our culture and if you wish to learn it then do so in the RIGHT way but it will be many years before you are capable of or worthy of dancing in our circles!

Hummingrose...as to your posts regarding the Cherokee dances and culture....go to Oklahoma to the rez they teach dance there or go to the boundary...oops probably lost you there..go to the Rez in NC...but don't go expecting open arms and teaching because those elders will see right through you and right into the fact that somewhere in time you found a cherokee in your family line and now you want to learn everything you can....it does not work that way. You can ask an elder for help and it may take a second for an answer or a year or never. They are not elders by chance..they are by wisdom and deed. Go, watch, keep silent...learn.

I can tell you one thing about the Cherokee Traditional Dance for women...we do not do that MINE FIELD STOMP ...where you are bent in half and bringing you knees up to you nose! Nothing irritates me more than to see these white women here in NC wandering around stomping like they are in pain or looking for mines by force.

To both C Rock whatever and Hummingrose....remember to be HUMBLE because to practice what you think you know but have little knowledge of is to dishonor, disrespect and insult our ways. Getting off my soapbox :36:

Some examples of which I speak....a woman dancing in the womens traditional category...in a COWHIDE TWO TONE dress of her own design of course, wrapped around skirt with slit up to her crotch, big TEARDROP cutout at her breast area allowing cleavage to BULDGE through...doing a side step across from me and all I saw was her bare crotch! Now let me tell you that I stopped that dance in a HEARTBEAT and had the Arena Director ask her to leave or wrap herself in a shawl. This idiot white woman white blue black dyed hair says "I am apache and can do as I please and wear as I please" my Cherokee response was...I do not give a damn if you are apache, creek, cheyenne or cherokee...dress like a whore on your own time but NOT IN THIS CIRCLE! Needless to say...she left. A man at another powwow wearing motorcycle chaps for leggings, no shirt, nasty huge hairy belly hanging all over the place and so white you needed raybans to look across the arena...carrying a dance stick which had a mounted deer head on it....bumped into people, danced backwards, dropped eagle feathers and had the nerve to question us and argue with four of us women when we stopped the dance to call for a pick up dance and asked that he be tossed out after breaking an eagle tail fan with his stupid DEER HEAD. And of course the white wiccan ndn wannabees that show up claiming to be from a woman's warrior society asking the host drum to do an honor song....now head singer looked at them in their black tights, capes and WWII nazi flying boots and immediately turned the drum on its side....

YOU PEOPLE DONT GET IT! :wall:

Okay, now I will have the first cup of coffee and be nice LadyHawk again...<shaking head at ignorance I have read in this forum> I am going for my coffee now...carry on with your foolishness.

[Southernstr8]

Who are you or any of you to decide who can dance and who can't? You want people to stop stereotyping, but you won't allow them to learn. You say because you are not us, you don't have a "right" to know or learn. Well, speaking as an American, go back to your reservation and stay there becasue that is not what America is about and nobody needs or wants your attitude on American soil. Have fun earning your own Native money. You can stop using government funds as well since they are giving your rez money but they don't understand your culture, (because you won't let them.) Stop harrasing those who want to learn more. Educate those who want to learn more. We want respect? Give respect to earn respect. None of you have earned thier respect and certaintly not mine. (And I'm Native!)

oooooh Ms. Rose.....
How to explain this, while keeping my composure....Just right out with it I guess....

I won't say anything about the right to dance bit...thats been covered all to well by the other members of the board...

Hate to say it but...as an American is a pretty bogus statement we are all Americans as we exist on this land. As far as needing or wanting attitude in America, hate to say it but thats what America is all about...need proof watch the news. Religious freedom is of course by and large one of the greatest right allowed the people of the country, this right however doesn't give automatic right to ANY religion. Need proof of that send a catholic to a synagouge and see what happens. The reason I state this is simple, at the base root of native culture is religion. The way we live has a direct conncetion to that, the dances, clothes, protocols are all part of this.

Earning our own Native money....this of course is a history lesson in itself. I cannot speak for all nations, but quite a few recieve "native money" by way of treaty with the united states, in trade for our lands and to stop wars. There are of course the "fortunate" nations that by way of placement were placed on lands that contained rich resources of minerals that others put value on, and with the US government acting as guardian (I use this term loosely) recieve that money, and as of late has been subject of issues of mis-managment by the government. For most going back to our rezs, many remain living on them. Others have left due to the fact that "native money" is enough to provide about as nice a place to live as the worst getto. History would have people believe that the indians were placed in "happy camps" when in fact got land that was deemed unsuitable for useful purpose, and in the event that the land suddenly had value the people there were removed by force to another area that was worse than the place before, hence your own people rose.

People that desire to learn more are fine and dandy with most everyone here or in the real world. Where the line gets crossed is when people "learn" and act on that teaching when more often than not the person teaching was doing so out of place. As far as the line "I was given this dance, or I was asked to dance by..." that is a caution statement for any native person, as we all know that there are few people that have the "right" (the right to give this or that is a whole other topic) and these people take this very seriously. More often than not when asked if a non-native person was given that right in the correct manner the answer is usually a resounding NO!!! For most nations the "right" to dance takes place at specific location and is done at great expense to that person and their family. Each nation of course has their own way of conducting this "right", but in the circle of people I travel with the same appears true for most.

Hummingrose, you have made statements in other areas that you have little knowledge of your culture's heritage, the same seems to ring clear about your culture's history. If I may offer a suggestion, if you wish to learn more about your heritage that you contact the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma, or those in North Carolina to learn what you are seeking. I would be very leery of anyone you meet in your area for their ability to teach you what you desire to learn, as they very well may lead you down a very wrong path. As for Powwows.com I would concentrate more on reading and asking questions rather than stating opinion without more knowledge. It may seem at the surface that the more "Militant" members are just bashing people, but there are very accurate statements in what they say. But, I can't state more clearly that if you truely want to learn more about your Cherokee heritage to contact these places and begin you question asking there.

Damn Hummingrose At It Again U Iz Alwayz Fightin With People Y Dont U Jus Shut The Fugg Up Fer Once Man U Must B A Real Miserable Person Holay Chit Did Someone Piss In Ur Cereal Thizmorning And Ur Only 17 Chit Respect Peopl Who R Older Than U Jeeez

[hummingrose]

American soil my asss!! LMAO by the way...not ALL natives live on "american soil". You are such a typical white person with this comment that i quoted, "you can stop using government funds as well since they are giving your rez money but you don't understand your culture" puuuhhhleeaazzee WOMAN!!! Annnyyywaaayyss if you were native, I highly doubt that a native would tell another native to continue living on government funds etc etc...

let me put it simple words you might be able to understand. The American governemt give rezs money. You hate the American government. So, wouldn't everything be in its place if rezs refused to accept the money? Also, never again question my heritage. I don't question yours, unless you want me to start.

[hummingrose]

FYI hummingrose, Jinglin Chica is not ignorant. She is just very protective of her traditional ways, since this is the way she was raised since she was a child. So i think you just need to step off! :)

I'm protective of my culture too, when someone does or says something wrong. Does this poor man have to get permission from every single native alive? What does he have to do? All this spite and bitterness against him dancing is all because he is white. These feelings have been passed down from generation to generation.

[hummingrose]

Hummingrose: You are unbelievable! I cannot believe some of the things that come out of your computer and land on mine. I am truly sad for you today. Truly. You seem like such an undereducated person. By the way, the Hummingbird is giving you strength? :43: Sorry, couldn't help it.

I was being sarcastic, you know funny, ha ha, humor. my mistake, you can't hear voice inflection on the computer.

[ojibwaysweetie]

This comment is made with all my respect: most heirloms end up in antique shops and flea markets for anyone to enjoy.

This is about the second-most ignorant comment I ever read in this entire site.

[CactusButt]

Hummingrose: You are unbelievable! I cannot believe some of the things that come out of your computer and land on mine. I am truly sad for you today. Truly. You seem like such an undereducated person. By the way, the Hummingbird is giving you strength? :43: Sorry, couldn't help it. Anywayz, maybe you should try a more compassionate animal to draw from, you know like a human being. I was just wondering..... How did you form all of your opinions? As I had said in an earlier thread... Pete and Repeat were sitting on a fence, Pete fell off and who was left....Hummingrose,..er..I mean Repeat. What I mean is your pseudo intelligence is very window-ish. I can see very clearly that you have little or no experience with Natives. I can see very clearly why. What I would reccomend to you before you go trying to dance and learn and be a part of the community is that you read, alot, and then read some more. And read with an open mind and heart, about the tragedies that occured on this soil beginning 200 years ago and still happening today. You seem to think that everything is right and good that happens in this country. Native Americans are not the only group of people who are not satisfied with this government. I am not saying that we live in such a horrible nation or that everything is wrong. What I am saying is that not everything is right. And as far as what Jinglin Chica and Bubberlish are saying it is true. And your very rude comment about family heirlooms is horrible! I can't believe that you would say something like that. Well that is a very western attitude, and just because some cultures do not have respect and admiration for their own family members and traditions does not mean that every culture is that way. I mean the "American" culture is approx. 200 yrs. old, and with such a respectable start, I'd say it is no wonder why the American people are some of the most hated throughout the entire world.

I think that you should not be taught anything about any Native American culture until you put your heart in the right place. You say you are part Cherokee, fine, and you want to learn more, fine. But I ask you this, If someone came to you and said they wanted to learn about your family history, you know your mom, dad, grandparents,etc; and all the while telling you to get over the hurt or bad things that happened in your family, or that the things that did happen were not important, would you teach them anything?

It seems to me you have more respect for an animal than you do for your fellow man.

[BurBz]

++++

poor poor hummingrose alwayz gettin into chit ''DAMN''
...''[email protected]

[Jinglin Chica]

Who are you or any of you to decide who can dance and who can't? You want people to stop stereotyping, but you won't allow them to learn. You say because you are not us, you don't have a "right" to know or learn. Well, speaking as an American, go back to your reservation and stay there becasue that is not what America is about and nobody needs or wants your attitude on American soil. Have fun earning your own Native money. You can stop using government funds as well since they are giving your rez money but they don't understand your culture, (because you won't let them.) Stop harrasing those who want to learn more. Educate those who want to learn more. We want respect? Give respect to earn respect. None of you have earned thier respect and certaintly not mine. (And I'm Native!)

Why should I allow them to learn? It's my culture and I refuse to share it with people who will never truly understand it.I'll educate who I want, when I want about my culture. Believe me, it won't be someone who's ndn in his heart.

I'm not American nor do I live on a reservation. I can come go as I please though because I'm Native.

I will continue to use Cdn govt funds, it's the very least that they can do. I'm not about to feel guilty about that. Although, I must mention, some Tribes do not rely entirely on govt. funds but you wouldn't have known that. You're too busy looking down on Natives.

I only harassed that fool mths ago because he was being a pompous arrogant @$$. Not that I needed to explain f*** all to you. You came in late in the game honey.

Respect them? Why? Because they're nice enough to be interested? Please. I'll respect those who respect my culture enough to leave it alone. I'll respect those who don't act like they are the ultimate authority on Native Culture in general and pow-wow in particular.

Don't even think about arguing with me. You have no idea about being me and being Native.

[BurBz]

Who are you or any of you to decide who can dance and who can't? You want people to stop stereotyping, but you won't allow them to learn. You say because you are not us, you don't have a "right" to know or learn. Well, speaking as an American, go back to your reservation and stay there becasue that is not what America is about and nobody needs or wants your attitude on American soil. Have fun earning your own Native money. You can stop using government funds as well since they are giving your rez money but they don't understand your culture, (because you won't let them.) Stop harrasing those who want to learn more. Educate those who want to learn more. We want respect? Give respect to earn respect. None of you have earned thier respect and certaintly not mine. (And I'm Native!)

American soil my asss!! LMAO by the way...not ALL natives live on "american soil". You are such a typical white person with this comment that i quoted, "you can stop using government funds as well since they are giving your rez money but you don't understand your culture" puuuhhhleeaazzee WOMAN!!! Annnyyywaaayyss if you were native, I highly doubt that a native would tell another native to continue living on government funds etc etc...

[BurBz]

Ignorant My Assss!!!

Didn't you read what he said? He isn't trying to be Indian. He did go through the "correct" entrance ways into the circle. Are we trying to build bridges or burn them? You are so ignorant. And that's coming from one Native to another.

FYI hummingrose, Jinglin Chica is not ignorant. She is just very protective of her traditional ways, since this is the way she was raised since she was a child. So i think you just need to step off! :)

[Kiwehnzii]

Who are you or any of you to decide who can dance and who can't? You want people to stop stereotyping, but you won't allow them to learn. You say because you are not us, you don't have a "right" to know or learn. Well, speaking as an American, go back to your reservation and stay there becasue that is not what America is about and nobody needs or wants your attitude on American soil. Have fun earning your own Native money. You can stop using government funds as well since they are giving your rez money but they don't understand your culture, (because you won't let them.) Stop harrasing those who want to learn more. Educate those who want to learn more. We want respect? Give respect to earn respect. None of you have earned thier respect and certaintly not mine. (And I'm Native!)

Hoo, boy!!! I can see it coming. Everybody coming back from the weekend powwows are coming back to this? Your in for it, now. :rtf:

I'd say more but I gotta go spend some of my gov't money. :)

[hummingrose]

None of you have earned thier respect and certaintly not mine. (And I'm Native!)

None of you have earned thier respect and certaintly not mine. (And I'm Native!)


Wow... no matter how many times I read that... I am still amazed.

meaning I don't have to respect them just beacuse I am Native and so are they. :wall: