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Women in Regalia Part 2.. white dancer discussion Part 1001

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  • #91
    Ok, as a person of mixed-blood who is all NDN, I will dance at powwows, but not competition ones as I feel dancing to be a form of praying. If we had a place to have a monthly Social around here, I would also dance there, because dancing together is a fellowship, a thing which lifts our spirits. When the occasion and invitation arises, I have gone to prayer dances and Sacred Fire ceremonies. There is a proper way for a woman to dress even at a social or during inter-tribal at powwows, where modest attire(cover your hide or stay outside) includes a shawl.

    Ceremonies such as stomps require regalia that you do not wear anywhere else, not to powwows even. Due to the sacred nature of these ceremonies, I will not discuss the regalia, but those of us who follow our traditional cultures know what this entails, and again, modesty is a part of it.

    It's too danged hot here for buckskin, so I wear cloth dresses for powwow. I like to make mine with a tunic top and skirt, so the top also doubles as a ribbon shirt. I have a tear dress, but usually wear it when the weather is cooler-all those yards of material can operate like a sauna in the high humidity we get here in the Southeast. Before the tear dress our women wore a tunic and skirt, with leggings. Before I even start an outfit, I pray over it. While I make it, I pray over it, when I finish it, I pray over it. Every time I put it on or take it off, I pray over it. While I'm wearing it I am mindful of my attitudes, words, and actions because I am in the presence of my Creator and ancestors, and those assembled there, as a Cherokee woman and as a representative of my people in front of non-Indians. I will not shame my people or myself by "playing" Indian.

    Traditionally, Cherokee women did not wear eagle feathers as adornment. If you wore one, it was because you had been honored for something or because you had a son or husband at war. I was given one long ago, and passed it on to my younger daughter when she began dancing. Just as I had been shown how to honor that feather and care for it, I made sure she knew how to do so as well, so that we would both continue to be blessed through it. I gave her my redtail wing fan, which had also had been received as a gift.

    I still have a fan of hawk tail feathers, and one made from the right wing of a young wild turkey hen that had been shot by my son. He had prepared for the hunt in the proper way, brought her down with a clean shot, prayed over and thanked her for her gift, then gave every part of her away. Interestingly enough, the only people who've said anything about it to me were whites who-trying to show how much they know-said I was carrying it because I must not be really Indian. Imagine their surprise when a full-blood came to my defense and told them they didn't know anything, that to us Cherokees the turkey is also sacred, and that they should be more respectful. Hmmm, maybe some day I'll make one of those turkey feather capes our people used to wear.

    I see plenty of ill-made regalia, worn by wannabe's playing Indian who don't have a clue as to what regalia is about, what being NDN is about. Sure, if someone is trying to connect with their lost heritage, I can have a heart for them, but someone who's truly NDN will understand that they don't step into that circle until the elders say they're ready to, and that there are certain protocols which must be honored for them to be ready. They have to be taught by someone who has elders' permission to do so, they have to prepare mentally and spiritually as well as physically-learning what the dances mean, where they came from, why they're done. And when they're brought into the circle, they have to honor the elders, the drum(s), those officiating, and those who taught them...and give-aways are not cheap, either in terms of cost or in time spent choosing what to give each person, making things, and making each gift a blessing to the person you give it to.

    Correcting these people is the responsibility of the whipman, whipwoman, arena directors, or elders. Much as we want to say something to them, it may not be our place to do so as we are then taking on authority we weren't given. When I see something that isn't right, I go to the person in authority and tell them. Even if it's out of the circle or at a powwow or other event open to the general public, it reflects better on us as a whole to correct someone gently if possible, or to respond to someone else's ignorance with dignity and decorum. There's enough fools out there, no need to lower ourselves to their level. Or as my son says, never argue with an idiot-he'll pull you down to his level then beat you with experience.

    Comment


    • #92
      i think you, jinglin chica, are not right. i live here over the atlantic in europe in austria. in my area eagle and hawks are very important. and i have eagle and hawk feathers which were given to me from my father and my grandmother. i agree when you are saying that white people should not have/wear eagle feathers regarding the native issue but in general thats not true because eagles arent only common in america. i am very proud of my feathers und take care of them and they are of great value for me.
      Stephan Gruber

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Stephan
        i think you, jinglin chica, are not right. i live here over the atlantic in europe in austria. in my area eagle and hawks are very important. and i have eagle and hawk feathers which were given to me from my father and my grandmother. i agree when you are saying that white people should not have/wear eagle feathers regarding the native issue but in general thats not true because eagles arent only common in america. i am very proud of my feathers und take care of them and they are of great value for me.

        Ohhhh puuhhleeezee STEPAHNO Yay for you for living in Europe and now don't we have OTHER wannabe's out there in EUROPE trying to BECOME indian? Puuhhleezee.. yes Eagles are everywhere, buuuuttt as a First Nations/Indigenous people of Canada and North America we FULL BLOODED NDN's have MORE RIGHT of the legal possession of eagle feathers. The issue here is a WHITE BOY (JUST LIKE YOU) that has gone FAR FROM taking the RIGHT paths and right BLESSINGS to dance using the eagle feathers as his main regalia. MY gawd..don't you white people at all GET what we have said on this thread...over and over.. are you all that DENSE?? Eagle feathers are sacred to our people, can't you all just accept the fact that you were NOT the SOLE owners of these sacred birds in the beginning of time?? AS for the WHITE BOY ...and others who have eagle feathers in their possession without appropriate blessings to use the feathers are going to suffer the consequences later in life. This is NOT a superstition, this is the FACT. So my gawd, get it through your biligana heads and just stick to RIVERDANCING and CHEERLEADING!!! :Yell :Mad

        Comment


        • #94
          Thx Burbie, great post but I have something to add...

          Listen stephan, you've no clue what we're talking about so keep your nose out of it. If you want to argue with me, fine. I'd advise you to make sure you know what exactly it is that I'm fighting against. However, in the end, it won't matter what your points are. I'll never like any white person dancing and using eagle feathers. Don't think you can come in here and tell me that I'm wrong for speaking my mind about something I've firmly believed in all my life.
          Last edited by Jinglin Chica; 01-17-2004, 09:56 PM.
          Hockey is soul food.

          Comment


          • #95
            Ladies, Stephan chose to post in response to the fact that Native Americans are not the only culture in this world that used, wore or held in high regard (or in other words considered sacred) the Eagle and it's part. If either of you might have take the time to observe other cultures in your short lives you may have noticed the use of eagle feathers is fairly common among the Scottish to just state one example. The way they use them is not entirely different from the way natives do, though not nearly so many are used at once, but nonetheless they are a highly respected and symbolic part of their traditional dress clothes. The cultural use of these thing by native american culture does not make their use exclusively yours. The fact that you both chose to so flippantly dismiss someone that was merely trying to enlighten you to the use of feathers by people of other country only shows how pathetically narrow minded your view of the world is. Yes, this thread and board are both in reference to native american culture but in this day and age no culture can ignore the others and to be so rude to someone injecting FACTS is pathetic.

            More over, I must have misread something because I never once saw where C-Rock77 ever stated that he possessed, much less wore REAL eagle feathers, and isn't that a large part of what you have been droning on and on about?

            Is this how you get your frustrations out? I can't say I have seen either of you do anything on this board but complain about one thing or another (well outside of you acting goofy in the chat forum that is).

            Feel free to dive in on me too, cause I am through with this and will not be back to discuss your arrogant behavior again. Have a nice day.
            PB49

            "Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up." Pablo Picasso

            "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift...that is why is it called the Present." Master Oogway - KungFu Panda


            My comments are based on what I have been taught and my experiences over the years I have been around the circle. They should in no way be taken as gospel truths and are merely my opinions or attempts at passing on what I have learned while still learning more.

            Comment


            • #96
              Gee, the white boys have a lawyer?
              Hockey is soul food.

              Comment


              • #97
                Hi
                Jinglin Chica, You like to see sparks fly on the boards.
                Asema Is Sacred
                Traditional Use, Not Misuse
                Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me.
                OK Niji we are running a train with red over yellow at this powwow.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by powwowbum49
                  Ladies, Stephan chose to post in response to the fact that Native Americans are not the only culture in this world that used, wore or held in high regard (or in other words considered sacred) the Eagle and it's part. If either of you might have take the time to observe other cultures in your short lives you may have noticed the use of eagle feathers is fairly common among the Scottish to just state one example. The way they use them is not entirely different from the way natives do, though not nearly so many are used at once, but nonetheless they are a highly respected and symbolic part of their traditional dress clothes. The cultural use of these thing by native american culture does not make their use exclusively yours. The fact that you both chose to so flippantly dismiss someone that was merely trying to enlighten you to the use of feathers by people of other country only shows how pathetically narrow minded your view of the world is. Yes, this thread and board are both in reference to native american culture but in this day and age no culture can ignore the others and to be so rude to someone injecting FACTS is pathetic.

                  More over, I must have misread something because I never once saw where C-Rock77 ever stated that he possessed, much less wore REAL eagle feathers, and isn't that a large part of what you have been droning on and on about?

                  Is this how you get your frustrations out? I can't say I have seen either of you do anything on this board but complain about one thing or another (well outside of you acting goofy in the chat forum that is).

                  Feel free to dive in on me too, cause I am through with this and will not be back to discuss your arrogant behavior again. Have a nice day.
                  Go ahead and roll your eyes.. but he's right !
                  Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by powwowbum49
                    Ladies, Stephan chose to post in response to the fact that Native Americans are not the only culture in this world that used, wore or held in high regard (or in other words considered sacred) the Eagle and it's part. If either of you might have take the time to observe other cultures in your short lives you may have noticed the use of eagle feathers is fairly common among the Scottish to just state one example. The way they use them is not entirely different from the way natives do, though not nearly so many are used at once, but nonetheless they are a highly respected and symbolic part of their traditional dress clothes. The cultural use of these thing by native american culture does not make their use exclusively yours. The fact that you both chose to so flippantly dismiss someone that was merely trying to enlighten you to the use of feathers by people of other country only shows how pathetically narrow minded your view of the world is. Yes, this thread and board are both in reference to native american culture but in this day and age no culture can ignore the others and to be so rude to someone injecting FACTS is pathetic.

                    More over, I must have misread something because I never once saw where C-Rock77 ever stated that he possessed, much less wore REAL eagle feathers, and isn't that a large part of what you have been droning on and on about?

                    Is this how you get your frustrations out? I can't say I have seen either of you do anything on this board but complain about one thing or another (well outside of you acting goofy in the chat forum that is).

                    Feel free to dive in on me too, cause I am through with this and will not be back to discuss your arrogant behavior again. Have a nice day.

                    My my aren't we MAKING personal attacks here? I thought a MODERATORS job was to keep things in LINE on the boards, not MAKE personal attacks to other users Calling us "pathetically narrow minded" ALSO to state all we do is COMPLAIN? LOL We are not the only ones complaining about it! So you calling the rest of the other folks on this thread that have posted here also NARROW MINDED? since it is in regards to what was being discussed all along? Yeah we act goofy on the other boards, so what... who made you the boss *ohhh yeah you have that senior moderator title* so you think with that title you can keep us users from voicing our opinions and our OWN beliefs? Just because we seem to be GOOFY elsewhere on the boards, does not mean we don't give a flying crap about what else is being discussed here as well? Like Mato said, this stuff has been discussed over and over and we can always keep voicing our opinions. And thank you for following us around and checking out our posts :D we just feel oh so special Arrogant behavior :D thank you... :D

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Blackbear
                      Go ahead and roll your eyes.. but he's right !

                      :D


                      OH and BTW.. up in stephano tribe area..i dont' see scottish.. it says AUSTRIAN :D

                      Comment


                      • Circle the Wagons!!!

                        Circle the Wagons, Pilgrams!!!!

                        There's two of them!!!!!


                        :Chatter :Chatter

                        Comment


                        • mfg

                          this was only an example.
                          i know my austrian tradtions and yes in dont know about yours. but please note that there are other people and cultures out there.

                          my sentences may sounds a bit stright and harsh sorry for that.
                          i dont wanted to bother you with may private message. i do appologize.
                          Stephan Gruber

                          Comment


                          • Thx for reading my arrogant, rude and narrow minded posts Steve!

                            Char, I think we've gone and offended those with white blood. :)
                            Hockey is soul food.

                            Comment


                            • Since my dad's people are Scots, I can say that in traditional Scottish culture, the ONLY persons permitted to wear eagle feathers are the Chieftans of the Clans. Spouses of Clan Chieftans, not any of the other officials, nor the members of a Clan are not permitted to wear eage feathers or parts.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Burberrilish
                                :D


                                OH and BTW.. up in stephano tribe area..i dont' see scottish.. it says AUSTRIAN :D
                                You missed the point entirely. Scottish was brought up as one example, it's what Bum knew about so he used that. Why not ask Stephano or other cultures what eagle feathers mean to them or how they were used? And not all the indian nations even hold eagles in the same regards.. most yes, but not all. We have different ways of obtaining them both in history and now. Some have to have a rite of passage to get them and some don't.

                                Alot of people here are generalizing and making assumptions and getting nowhere in your arguments other than to sound angry even when it is'nt part of the topic.
                                Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

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