House hears plea for Lumbee recognition

[Smokin' Ace]

Published on: 2004-04-02

House hears plea for Lumbee recognition

By Venita Jenkins, Staff writer

WASHINGTON - Members of the House Resources Committee say the issue of full federal recognition of the Lumbee tribe must be resolved.

But how that resolution will be reached remained unclear Thursday after nearly four hours of testimony in a committee hearing.

The House Resources Committee heard testimony from those who support immediate full recognition of the tribe through legislation. It also heard from opponents, including the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, who said the Lumbees should go through the Bureau of Indian Affairs to gain federal recognition.

The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians is the only federally recognized tribe in North Carolina.

Nearly 200 people, including members and leaders of the Lumbee and Cherokee tribes, attended the hearing in the Longworth House Office Building.

Rep. Mike McIntyre, a Democrat from Lumberton, submitted a bill in February 2003 that would grant the Lumbee tribe full federal status. Rep. Charles Taylor, a Republican from Brevard, submitted legislation in March 2003 that would allow the Lumbees to go through the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

The tribe has sought federal recognition since 1888. Congress passed legislation in 1956 that granted the tribe recognition, but denied it full benefits granted to other federally recognized tribes. It also prohibited the tribe from going through the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Committee Chairman Richard Pombo, a Republican from California, said before the hearing that a decision on whether to grant federal recognition to a tribe through legislation should not be taken lightly.

"It has ramifications beyond just the affected tribe," he said. "It should not be based on emotion or on what 'feels right,' but rather on factual evidence that has been carefully collected, analyzed and judged."

Among those speaking in support of the tribe were McIntyre, Sen. Elizabeth Dole and GOP Rep. Richard Burr.

Dole, a Republican from North Carolina, has also submitted legislation that would grant full recognition for the tribe. Her bill passed the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs and is awaiting action before the full Senate.

McIntyre urged the House Resources Committee not to delay. The tribe has made numerous contributions to society, and to deny it full recognition would be a slap in the face, he said.

"We are in an unique situation, a situation that Congress created and that Congress must correct," he said.

Dole said she realizes some people think the Lumbees should go through the Bureau of Indian Affairs for federal recognition.

"That process is reserved for tribes whose legitimacy must be established," she said. "There is no need for that in the case of the Lumbee. Time and again, the legitimacy of the tribe has been established."

The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians has been opposed to federal acknowledgment of the Lumbee tribe since at least 1910 because of questions about the tribe's identity, said Michell Hicks, principal chief for the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. The Lumbee tribe has petitioned the federal government under four different names: the Cherokee Indians of North Carolina, Siouan, Croatan and Cheraw, he said. The Lumbee tribe does not have a treaty with the U.S. government or land claims, Hicks said.

Jack Campisi, an anthropologist, said the tribe meets six of the seven criteria established by the Bureau of Indian Affairs and believes the tribe has met the criteria for full recognition. Several studies on the Lumbees were submitted as evidence.


Arlinda Locklear, the lawyer for the tribe, said the various names were imposed on the tribe by the state of North Carolina. Also, studies conducted by the Department of Interior do not deny the Lumbee as American Indians, she said.

Hicks said Congress is not equipped to make the decision. He said it could cost more than $682 million over four years to provide the Lumbees federal programs. That would further decrease the money existing tribes get, Hicks said.

Representatives from the Department of Interior said it would cost more than $400 million over a four-year period to provide the Lumbees with federal programs, based on 36,000 enrolled Lumbee members. The tribe says it has more than 50,000 members.

Some who testified were concerned about gambling.

William Brooks Jr., president of the North Carolina Family Policy Council, said full federal recognition would eventually lead to gambling.

"While I understand the passage of this bill will not immediately grant the Lumbee Tribe the right to gamble, it would represent a significant step in that direction, and this is a major concern for many in my state," Brooks said.

McIntyre said the tribe is not seeking federal recognition for gambling. The tribe would have to take several steps to have a casino, including having a referendum by its tribal members and getting permission for the governor.

Rep. Walter Jones, a Republican from North Carolina, asked McIntyre if he would support amending the bill to prevent the tribe from establishing a casino.

McIntyre said he supports the sovereignty of the tribe. "I believe they are tired of the white man telling the red man what to do," he said.

Committee members were divided on how to address the federal recognition issue. Several members, including Rep. Nick J. Rahall II of West Virginia, the ranking Democrat on the committee, supported the tribe's efforts. He has voted for recognition for the Lumbees on two prior occasions.

Jones said he was against McIntyre's bill because there is already an established process in place to establish federal recognition.

Tribal Chairman Jimmy Goins said federal recognition is an issue of fairness and providing needed resources to the Lumbee people. Goins said he thought the hearing was "positive." He had no comment about the Eastern Band testimony.

"Evidently, there are some people who have major concerns about gaming," he said. "So we have to address that in order to get our bill passed."

No date has been set for the committee to vote on the matter, said Pombo, the committee chairman.

Staff writer Venita Jenkins can be reached at [email protected] or (910) 738-9158.

[geronimo]

i agree singerdad---i guess we'll never be considered real indians until we reduce the # of members by 75% and gaming ceases to exists

[hockeyfan_019]

Just wondering I guess, but why does the EBCI have any opposition?

Besides the fact that they are now the ONLY recognized tribe in the area, their funding would essentially decrease since the gov't would be funding more people, their current monopoly on gaming would end, since they'd have to "compete" with the Lumbee for gaming patrons, etc, etc, etc.

Just sounds like another ploy for $$$. Too bad EVERYBODY isn't just willing to stand up and say a spade's a spade... At the very least, I'd hope that one tribe would be willing to support another tribe's recognition... More "divide and conquer" tactics if you ask me...

Why were they disallowed from normal funding by the BIA in the first place? When did the EBCI become recognized? Unless EBCI applied BEFORE 1888, I'd say the Lumbee are just as "recognizable" as the EBCI.

[Shalee]

Just wondering I guess, but why does the EBCI have any opposition?

Besides the fact that they are now the ONLY recognized tribe in the area, their funding would essentially decrease since the gov't would be funding more people, their current monopoly on gaming would end, since they'd have to "compete" with the Lumbee for gaming patrons, etc, etc, etc.

Just sounds like another ploy for $$$. Too bad EVERYBODY isn't just willing to stand up and say a spade's a spade... At the very least, I'd hope that one tribe would be willing to support another tribe's recognition... More "divide and conquer" tactics if you ask me...

Why were they disallowed from normal funding by the BIA in the first place? When did the EBCI become recognized? Unless EBCI applied BEFORE 1888, I'd say the Lumbee are just as "recognizable" as the EBCI.

In 1956 when the Government asked the Lumbees do you want benefits the head of the Lumbees said "no". Before the removal the Cherokee Nation was recognized in 1832 after the removal the Eastern Band were recognized in 1888 we began doing treaties with the Gov't in the earlier 1700 because we signed over the Eastern part of the Carolina's in 1762 (I think) that way there would be a boundary between the Cherokee and the Encroaching Settlers. If you read the Removal Act it states Lumbees were to white not their land was the reason why they were not removed with the South Eastern Tribes. We didn't have to apply for recognition we have always dealt with the Federal Gov't. Look, at the Creek War of 1813 - 1814 the Gov't well, Pres. Andrew Jackson came and asked us to fight, the French and Indian War the Gov't asked us to fight. We have been asked to fight in every single war here. And remember the Lumbee's are such a Christian Community they would not consider Gaming. How come they never claim to be Indian on any census in 1920 or even 1850? Robeson County census says mixed. Mixed with what I ask? According to Archelogist digs here on the Boundary we have been around here for more than 8,000 years growing corn and teaching the white how to survive. You can see a Cherokee Timeline in the Cherokee Heritage Book.

[hockeyfan_019]

Thanks Shalee for the info. I'll guess I'll have to read more about the history of the whole scenario to have a more informed opinion... Unfortunately, I think the congress critters probably don't care much about history, or justice, whatever the result. It's all about "what's in it for me", not "what's the right thing to do".

If somebody somehow perceives that the gov't will get more tax revenue someday via casino revenue, they'll probably get recognized. If nobody in Washington makes any $$$ on the deal, nothing will happen.

[lumbeedancer]

The possibility of gaming and the amount of funding dollars required should not be an issue at all...only "Are you or aren't you?" That is the only question that should be answered. But I feel this will continue to be a bitter :duel12:

Amen!!

[lumbeedancer]

In 1956 when the Government asked the Lumbees do you want benefits the head of the Lumbees said "no". Before the removal the Cherokee Nation was recognized in 1832 after the removal the Eastern Band were recognized in 1888 we began doing treaties with the Gov't in the earlier 1700 because we signed over the Eastern part of the Carolina's in 1762 (I think) that way there would be a boundary between the Cherokee and the Encroaching Settlers. If you read the Removal Act it states Lumbees were to white not their land was the reason why they were not removed with the South Eastern Tribes. We didn't have to apply for recognition we have always dealt with the Federal Gov't. Look, at the Creek War of 1813 - 1814 the Gov't well, Pres. Andrew Jackson came and asked us to fight, the French and Indian War the Gov't asked to fight. We have been asked to fight in every single war here. And remember the Lumbee's are such a Christian Community they would not consider Gaming. How come they never claim to be Indian on any census in 1920 or even 1850? Robeson County census says mixed. Mixed with what I ask? According to Archelogist digs here on the Boundary we have been around here for more than 8,000 years growing corn and teaching the white how to survive. You can see a Cherokee Timeline in the Cherokee Heritage Book. This is from a native 20 something Cherokee woman who is very involved in her culture, heritage, and traditions and all Tribal affairs.

This is sad!!

First of all the 1956 Lumbee Act was intended to bestow the same rights and priviledges to the Lumbee as any other tribe! The ONE and ONLY reason that we did not recieve the same rights and priviledges as all OTHER federally recognized tribes, was because of the terminationist policy of the department of Interior (same agency that houses the current administrative process that folks feel we need to go through today).

Before the passage of this Act the Dept of Interior recomended against imposing any further finacial obligations on the federal government to additional persons of Indian blood, and requested that language be added to the bill restricting services (its a matter of record)! No mention of Indianness or tribal legitimacy by Congress or the Dept of Interior (again, the people who house the current administrative process of today), because it was already a given, something that we were allready known to be without a doubt! It was all about money! Always has been and always will be!!


You mention that your tribe was recognized all the way back in 1888! The Lumbee were recognized by the state in 1885, petitioned the dept of Interior, in 1888, for full federal recognition (actually for assistance with tribal schools not recognition as Indian, which we were already known to be)! The "ONE and ONLY" reason we did not recieve full federal status "right then and there when it all first began," was because the Dept of Interior (note: again the same agency that houses the current administrative process of today) stated that they currently didn't have the resources to provide for the tribes allready under their ward and didn't see how they could possibly provide any assistance to the Lumbee or any other civilized "TRIBES" As in the BIA (again the same agency that houses the current administrative process of today) allready knew we were a tribe almost 120 yrs ago! NO QUESTION OF INDIANNESS!!!! NO QUESTION OF LEGITIMACY!!! "JUST" MONEY!!!!!

On another note: Who are you to tell me what my grand parents and great grandparents claimed to be! I happened to know a few of my great grandparents before they died! People who were listed as Indian on census's taken around 1910 as a matter of fact! People who grew up being persecuted and descriminated against for being who they were! People that I know for a fact were born being Indian because their parents, grandparents, and great ggggggg grandparents before them were!

This post you made right here is a prime example of the arrogant ignorance that Lumbees have been faced with! You've insulted me, along with the other 53,000 people in my nation, and judged us without knowing (or probably caring to know) anything about us, other than he said she said BS!

Have you ever been to Robeson county to meet and observe my people in person, to make these conclusions based on something factual? Have you ever read the testimonies my ancestors made about how they were laughed at and ridiculed by whites for speaking their native tongue? What do you know about my people not being allowed to go to White schools all the way back in the 1830s. What do you know about the White's stealing land from our anscestors back in the 1800s because we were'nt white enough to sue in court! What do you know about women such as Clarissa Chavis, or Susan Dial (born in 1852) who handed down several words from our ancient language (and yes it was the same siouan language the Cheraws and related tribes spoke)? What do you know about traditional Lumbee healing that managed to survive! What do you know about the pine straw baskets some of our people still make? What do you know? NOTHING!!

It's nice to see that you are proud of your tribe and their history, but why the need to put others down to glorify yourself? You should sympathize with us for the things we lost! Not gloat about how you kept bla bla bla, and throw it in our face!

Like Singerdad said; it should only be a question of are you or are'nt you? which anyone who cares to actually look, would see that we "undoubtedly" are!

[1badazzndn]

lumbee recognition

I dont think that Shalee needs to talk about the tribe's mistakes from 1956. Even if they simply wanted just to be recognized, I think that they have the right to step up and want full recognition and benfits now. Besides, if we were basing recognition on tribes' mistakes, then the Eastern Band of Cherokees would be fighting for recognition too, you stated it yourself, "cherokees have been asked to fight every single war". Yes, and you all did. Against other indians. If thats not a mistake, then I dont know what is. This isnt a tribal thing, this is an Indian thing. I hope that the lumbees get the recognition, because thats just more Natives(govt-wise) in this coutry, and maybe after that inclusion, we'll be 3% of this nation's population, instead of 2%.

[Blackbear]

the fighting is probably the tuscarora blood in the lumbee fighting the cherokees still....heheheheehehe... and if you don't understand that and understand it as a joke, go read some history.

[Okwataga]

could be the Catawba blood too

[Shalee]

This is sad!!

First of all the 1956 Lumbee Act was intended to bestow the same rights and priviledges to the Lumbee as any other tribe! The ONE and ONLY reason that we did not recieve the same rights and priviledges as all OTHER federally recognized tribes, was because of the terminationist policy of the department of Interior (same agency that houses the current administrative process that folks feel we need to go through today).

Before the passage of this Act the Dept of Interior recomended against imposing any further finacial obligations on the federal government to additional persons of Indian blood, and requested that language be added to the bill restricting services (its a matter of record)! No mention of Indianness or tribal legitimacy by Congress or the Dept of Interior (again, the people who house the current administrative process of today), because it was already a given, something that we were allready known to be without a doubt! It was all about money! Always has been and always will be!!


You mention that your tribe was recognized all the way back in 1888! The Lumbee were recognized by the state in 1885, petitioned the dept of Interior, in 1888, for full federal recognition (actually for assistance with tribal schools not recognition as Indian, which we were already known to be)! The "ONE and ONLY" reason we did not recieve full federal status "right then and there when it all first began," was because the Dept of Interior (note: again the same agency that houses the current administrative process of today) stated that they currently didn't have the resources to provide for the tribes allready under their ward and didn't see how they could possibly provide any assistance to the Lumbee or any other civilized "TRIBES" As in the BIA (again the same agency that houses the current administrative process of today) allready knew we were a tribe almost 120 yrs ago! NO QUESTION OF INDIANNESS!!!! NO QUESTION OF LEGITIMACY!!! "JUST" MONEY!!!!!

On another note: Who are you to tell me what my grand parents and great grandparents claimed to be! I happened to know a few of my great grandparents before they died! People who were listed as Indian on census's taken around 1910 as a matter of fact! People who grew up being persecuted and descriminated against for being who they were! People that I know for a fact were born being Indian because their parents, grandparents, and great ggggggg grandparents before them were!

This post you made right here is a prime example of the arrogant ignorance that Lumbees have been faced with! You've insulted me, along with the other 53,000 people in my nation, and judged us without knowing (or probably caring to know) anything about us, other than he said she said BS!

Have you ever been to Robeson county to meet and observe my people in person, to make these conclusions based on something factual? Have you ever read the testimonies my ancestors made about how they were laughed at and ridiculed by whites for speaking their native tongue? What do you know about my people not being allowed to go to White schools all the way back in the 1830s. What do you know about the White's stealing land from our anscestors back in the 1800s because we were'nt white enough to sue in court! What do you know about women such as Clarissa Chavis (born about 1850) who handed down several words from our ancient language (and yes it was the same siouan language the Cheraws and related tribes spoke)? What do you know about traditional Lumbee healing that managed to survive! What do you know about the pine straw baskets some of our people still make? What do you know? NOTHING!!

It's nice to see that you are proud of your tribe and their history, but why the need to put others down to glorify yourself? You should sympathize with us for the things we lost! Not gloat about how you kept bla bla bla, and throw it in our face!

Like Singerdad said; it should only be a question of are you or are'nt you? which anyone who cares to actually look, would see that we "undoubtedly" are!

Blah, blah, blah. :rofl2: I just don't care anymore. What the Creator sees fit will happen.

[Shalee]

I dont think that Shalee needs to talk about the tribe's mistakes from 1956. Even if they simply wanted just to be recognized, I think that they have the right to step up and want full recognition and benfits now. Besides, if we were basing recognition on tribes' mistakes, then the Eastern Band of Cherokees would be fighting for recognition too, you stated it yourself, "cherokees have been asked to fight every single war". Yes, and you all did. Against other indians. If thats not a mistake, then I dont know what is. This isnt a tribal thing, this is an Indian thing. I hope that the lumbees get the recognition, because thats just more Natives(govt-wise) in this coutry, and maybe after that inclusion, we'll be 3% of this nation's population, instead of 2%.

Indians have been fighting Indians for years get over it! :flaming:

[Badmutha]

Here's a thought.

How about the Interior lifting its ban on terminated tribes from petitioning? Then the Lumbee could go through the process.
It's there for a reason, otherwise what's the point of having the process?
Without it, the feds might as well recognize those Georgia Band of Eastern Cherokees, Sugar Creek Band of Cherokees, Southern Cherokees and Hoothahellarwee Cherokees, many of whom have state recognition too. (Damn you Alabama and Georgia :Flame ).
It is a valid concern of legitimate Cherokee tribes. If the Lumbee gets recognized through special legislation, then who's next? Some bunch of clowns in dyed black hair with those smart azz "Indian" names?
Money and casino competition aren't an issue. It's the leaking flood gates that are being kicked open.

[Okwataga]

True, if the group of Lumbees in Robeson County have been waiting hundreds of years what is 18 more months to go through a process that they have told everyone they surely can pass and be recognized through the BAR as a federally recognized tribe with benefits - I know someone brought up that they would be put through the BAR if that is the way they will go and have some kind of establishment / decision / recognition in 18 months.

So how are they going to set up their Hospitals, schools systems without a landbase? Which their lawyer Locklear said they(Lumbee tribe) do not want?

So what then are the Lumbees asking for - they are already recognized as Indians, just the money side of being Indian?

[lumbeedancer]

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