Group opposes Lumbee Recognition

[Blackbear]

http://www.wral.com/news/3000040/detail.html

Siouan Descendants Say Lumbees Claiming Their History As Own
Group Claims Identity Theft As Lumbees Seek Federal Recognition

POSTED: 11:37 am EDT April 13, 2004
UPDATED: 4:35 pm EDT April 13, 2004

ROBESON COUNTY, N.C. -- For more than 100 years, the Lumbee Indians of Robeson County have petitioned Congress for federal recognition. Congress is again weighing the Lumbees' proposal, but another group of Indians may stand in their way.


Descendants of the Siouan Indians say the Lumbees are claiming Siouan history as their own.

"They were proud of who they were. They were beautiful people," Katherine Magnotta said.

Magnotta's mother was one of 22 original Siouan Indians who lived in Robeson County. The federal government recognized the original 22 members in the 1930s.


RELATED INFORMATION
Siouan Indians
Lumbee Indians


Lumbee Indians are trying to gain federal recognition for its people -- 40,000 of whom live in Robeson County. At stake is the hundreds of millions of dollars in federal money.

Descendants of the 22 Siouans say the Lumbees' petition is built on a lie.

"Our history is being basically stolen from us," Magnotta said.

Magnotta says the Lumbees claim her ancestors' history as their own to bolster their case for federal recognition. Lumbees say the history is one and the same.

"If you had the opportunity to get $700 million using someone elses identity and you think you could pass it because you're dealing with a bunch of uneducated Indians, well, a lot of people would take that opportunity and that's basically what they've done," Magnotta said.

"I think that the time has come for us," Pembroke Mayor Milton Hunt, a Lumbee Indian, said. "You have dissenters in anything. I really don't know why."

Congressional committees have held hearings on the Lumbee bill and the full House and Senate may vote on it later this year.

[Blackbear]

http://www.fayettevillenc.com/story.php?Template=local&Story=6301622

Siouan kin contest Lumbee recognition


By Venita Jenkins
Staff writer



PEMBROKE - Descendants of a group of Siouan Indians say the Lumbees are using Siouan history to help their case for federal recognition.

The descendants say the Lumbees are using information about 22 Siouans that was certified by the Department of the Interior during the 1930s.

Lumbee tribal leaders submitted documentation to members of congressional committees during hearings for federal recognition. The Lumbees have to show a presence of American Indians in Robeson County.

An anthropologist with the former Commission of Indian Affairs examined 209 individuals in 1935 to determine whether they had a half degree or more of Indian blood. The commission sent letters to 22 people in 1938 saying they were entitled to benefits under the Indian Reorganization Act, but they were not given tribal status.

The 22 Siouan Indians lived in the Harpers Ferry community, just outside Pembroke.

Pembroke is known as the home of the Lumbees. The tribe has about 53,000 members. A majority of those members live in Robeson and the surrounding counties.

Sen. Elizabeth Dole and Rep. Mike McIntyre submitted bills in February 2003 that would give the Lumbees full federal recognition. The tribe has sought federal recognition since 1888.

Congress passed legislation in 1956 that granted the tribe recognition, but it denied the Lumbees benefits that other federally recognized tribes receive. It also prohibited the tribe from going through the Bureau of Indian Affairs to gain recognition.

Documentation about the Siouan Indians was included in information given to the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs and House Resources Committee during hearings on federal recognition for the Lumbees.

The Siouan descendants want the information stricken from the record.


Magnotta
Katherine Magnotta, whose grandmother and mother were among the 22 Siouans, wanted to testify before the House Resources Committee hearing April 1. But she learned about the hearing too late to be added to the witness list, she said.

"I oppose this based on the identity theft of our people," she said. "They are using my mother's name, my grandmother's name for the basis of this legislation. That is wrong."


People with power

Relatives of the 22 Siouans knew the Lumbees were using the Siouan history but did not know how to stop it, Magnotta said.

"They are a very wealthy group of people with a lot of power, and here we are Indian people with no money, no power, but the history," she said.


Elisha Locklear
Elisha Locklear, whose great-grandmother was among the 22 Siouan Indians, said he was upset by the Lumbees' action.

"The Lumbee history has always been scant to say the least, but to find out that they don't have enough history to support their petition and are attempting to steal the history of the 22 in order to flesh it out historically and give it credence goes against all the things held sacred by us for our grandmothers and grandfathers," Locklear said.

Jimmy Goins, chairman of the Lumbee Tribal Council, said the descendants' claims are fraudulent.

"The Tuscarora people are no different than the Lumbee people," Goins said. "We share the same ancestry, live in the same communities, attend the same churches and schools, and are for all intent and purposes, the same people. The tribe views the political differences between the various Tuscarora groups and Lumbee as an internal tribal matter. Passage of the Lumbee bill will go a long way toward resolving these differences."

The Lumbee Act of 1956 recognizes all Indians in Robeson and surrounding counties as Lumbee, which prevents other tribes in the area from seeking federal recognition. Other Indians who reside in the Lumbee territory cannot receive assistance from the Lumbee tribal government unless they become an enrolled member. The pending Lumbee Acknowledgement bill would also release the Tuscarora tribe for it to pursue federal recognition.

Goins said it was regrettable that "a small faction of our people have joined with the Eastern Band of the Cherokee to oppose the recognition of their own people."

The Eastern Band of the Cherokee, the only federally recognized tribe in North Carolina, has expressed opposition to the recognition legislation. Principal Chief Michell Hicks testified during the House Resource Committee hearing earlier this month. He questioned whether the Lumbee tribe should receive recognition through an act of Congress because the tribe does not have its own language, customs or traditions.

"A few misguided individuals who, for whatever reasons, seek to harm the federal recognition efforts of the Lumbee people will not deter the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina," Goins said.

Magnotta and Locklear said the descendants of the 22 Siouan Indians should be recognized before the Lumbees.

"The original 22 are already certified by the Department of Interior as Indian," Locklear said. "The right thing to do is to extend benefits to their descendants."

Magnotta added, "We should have our bill in the House before anyone else; before the Lumbees. They are claiming 50,000 people as Lumbee. Doesn't that raise an alarm that all of a sudden these people who don't have tribal history come up with 50,000 people? Where did they get 50,000 people? They have not had to go through what other tribes had to go through, and here they are getting ready to get benefits when there are other tribes who can't get housing and educational opportunities."


Letters submitted

Magnotta and Locklear have submitted letters to the House Resources Committee as part of the official hearing record. Leon Locklear, chief of the Tuscarora Nation of North Carolina based in Maxton, also has submitted documentation opposing federal recognition for the Lumbees. The Siouans are descendants of the Tuscarora Nation, he said.

"The history, which the Lumbees continue to use, is that of the Tuscarora people," Leon Locklear said. "Prior to 1956, there was never an Indian called Lumbee. Congress created the Lumbee tribe, and that is one reason the history of this area and the people is being revised by the Lumbee tribe."

Magnotta, Leon Locklear and Elisha Locklear met with a representative from Dole's office following the April 1 hearing, Magnotta said.

"All we want is an investigation into this," Magnotta said. "We want our history wiped out of this legislation and from the Lumbee books."

Magnotta said she would like meet with Dole and McIntyre to review documents about the Siouan's history.

Dole's staff has met with the Tuscarora delegation that attended the House Resource Committee hearing at length, said Katie Norman, Dole's deputy press secretary.

"Their concerns, like all constituent concerns, are important to her. At this time, Sen. Dole is focusing her efforts on achieving federal recognition for the Lumbee tribe, who have tirelessly sought the recognition they deserve for more than 100 years," Norman said.

McIntyre and his staff have met with various Tuscarora groups in Robeson County to listen to their concerns about federal recognition, McIntyre said in a news release.

"According to published reports, there are four different groups of Tuscaroras in Robeson County all claiming to be the certified nation for the Tuscaroras. I have encouraged them to consider uniting as one entity and to also secure North Carolina state recognition," he said. "Doing these two important things would put them in a better position to pursue federal recognition options. In addition, I have just received some new documents regarding the Tuscaroras."

Magnotta said she hopes lawmakers will take a serious look at their claim.

"We are seeking legal counsel," she said. "I will continue to get in front of every congressman, senator and television station to get our story out until this wrong is righted. Congressman McIntyre said he's doing this to right the wrong that was made against the Lumbees, but they are stepping on the rights of other Indian people to do it."

[Blackbear]

I know this much.. Tuscarora are Iroquois and not Siouxan... it's true, the opposing group is still related to the Lumbee and some were on lumbee rolls or have parents on the lumbee rolls....so how are they stealing their history?

[lumbeedancer]

I know this much.. Tuscarora are Iroquois and not Siouxan... it's true, the opposing group is still related to the Lumbee and some were on lumbee rolls or have parents on the lumbee rolls....so how are they stealing their history?

Good question!

I'd say it's just these two idiots opposing us (their own blood cousins), not a group!

In the 30s the dept of interior determined that the "whole" Indian community here was predominantly siouan (an admixture of closely related tribes, the Cheraw and Keyauwee being the most predominant). Those who were certified are the exact same people as the Lumbee (if some folks don't believe me, ask my sister NDNQT, an enrolled Lum, who's grandfather was one of the 22)!

The only thing seperating them from everyone else is that they were certified by the BIA! These tests included things like scull measurements, wetting hair to see if it stayed perfectly strait, rubbing a coin on the persons skin to see if it would change color, etc.... They were a joke! In some cases fullblooded siblings were listed different ways!

The first european settlers here were Scottish (red curly hair) even if a person were 3/4 native, its very unlikely that they would have silky strait hair! There are others who had some African ancestry (1/8 or less, if you were 1/4 or more you were not eligible for services such as going to indian schools etc... yeah i know its wrong but it's history) and would no doubt not pass this test either, even if they were 7/8ths Indian!


Just a point to ponder:
As rediculouse as these tests were, roughly 10% of the people examined were still certified. Given the high rates of intermarriage within the tribe still today, that would mean (conservatively speaking) that there are at least 5-6,000 people who could still fit those rediculous requirements today!

[lumbeedancer]

Tuscarora claim!

NDNQT!

Did your grandfather ever tell you he was Tuscarora?

[Blackbear]

Hate to tell you this, but it is groups.. another member here who has'nt been posting much has another discussion forum of his own and most of these folks there that call themselves tuscarora are saying this. I Said the same thing that the lumbee said in the article and this was weeks ago. The article is misleading though.. they say in the article that they are siouan groups, but they argue that lumbee blood is mostly tuscarora and not as much siouan as the lumbee claim. So they definitly would not be calling themselves siouan groups.. also it does'nt tell you the real reason they are fighting this recognition.
I read about those tests.. what a joke huh? None of those tests prove anything anyhow.

[lumbeedancer]

Hate to tell you this, but it is groups.. another member here who has'nt been posting much has another discussion forum of his own and most of these folks there that call themselves tuscarora are saying this. I Said the same thing that the lumbee said in the article and this was weeks ago. The article is misleading though.. they say in the article that they are siouan groups, but they argue that lumbee blood is mostly tuscarora and not as much siouan as the lumbee claim. So they definitly would not be calling themselves siouan groups.. also it does'nt tell you the real reason they are fighting this recognition.
I read about those tests.. what a joke huh? None of those tests prove anything anyhow.

When I said it was an individual thing I was reffering to the siouan group (hell some of their descendants are on the current Lumbee tribal council for peets sake).

As far as the Tuscarora, your right (although with them its more about claiming that we're all Tuscarora than it is about stopping us from getting recognition, which your obviously well aware of).

Personally I agree with the point you hinted at earlier. How can the Tuscarora (who spoke Iriquoi) lay claim to persons recognized as Siouan (a completely different language family, in which most of it's member tribes were historic enemies of the Tuscarora and helped fight against them in the tuscarora war of 1712), it doesn't make since!

Hell, I know for a fact that at least one of these individuals gave examples (it's a matter of BIA record) of siouan words that were handed down to him by his family!

I hope to God that full recognition comes soon (along with Lumbee controlled schools), apparently there's a whole lot of our own that need to be properly taught their own history (which the Robeson County schools currently don't do)!

It's d@m shame, is what it is!

Just so any of you NC Tuscaroras know: I'm not saying there are'nt any legitimate tuscaroras here (because there are). Anyone who has done their family tree, been raised tuscarora, and knows for a fact that they are Tuscarora! More power to you and best of luck with your recognition! You deserve it!

[NDNQt]

My grandfather never claimed to be Tuscarora. I have distant cousins who say they are Tuscarora. But from what I have been told if my maternal family has another tribe in there it is Pee Dee as that is where some of my fam came from. My grandfather was one of the people that was instrumental in getting recognition. I have book at home (I believe it was The Only Land I Know but am not sure) that talks about what he did. As a matter of fact anyone that goes to UNCP to college or even lives in the area can go by the school and see the marker that is on the road (it is one of those silver markers w/black writing) in honor of my grandfather, James Ellsworth Chavis, Sr.

I am sorry to say I am not well educated in the tribal history. Being that I grew up in a different area, the only other Lums being my mom and brother I didn't learn a whole lot.

I just called my mom and she said she thinks it was 90 something that got those letters, the 22 number came from (like the article said) those living in the area of Harpers Ferry. I am gonna try and check that info out this evening and will get back w/ya.

But back to the original question nope my grandfather never claimed to be anything but what he was!

[NDNQt]

I just talked to my mom again and she said she was mistaken about the number, my bro said it was 22. I am still gonna check the books I have (and just ordered some more) to see where that info was. Will let ya know!

[NDNQt]

I did find the info I was thinking about - it came from The Only Land I Know. The first bit of info was about my grandfather (James Chavis) and my uncle (Joseph Brooks)

Partly because of the geographical circumstances which located them in Eastern Sioux territory, partly because some of the people wanted a more precise indentity than they had, and partly because the federal government was sympathetic to the condition of the American Indian during Franklin Roosevelt's first administrations, a number of Robeson Indians, led by James Chavis and Joseph Brooks, tried in 1934 to obtain congressional legislation naming them the "Siouan Indians of the Lumer River". This legislation had the support both of the Secretary of the Interior and John R. Swanton of the Smithsonian Institution; however, Swanton preferred that the people be given a more specific name than Siouan Indians. In a memorandum to Senetor Burton K. Wheeler, Chaiman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, Swanton wrote:
The evidence available thus seems to indicate that the Indians of Robeson County who have been called Croatan and CHerokee are descendants of certain Siouan Tribes, of which the most prominent were the Cheraw and Keyauwee. . . It is not improbable that a few families or small groups of Algonquin connection may have cast their lot with this body of people . . .f the name of any tribe is to be use [for] this body of 6 or 8 thousand people, that of the Cheraw would be most appropriate.
Though the idea of the Lumbees being of Siouan descent intrigued many, it gained the support of only a handful of the Lumbee people, and the opposition of most, because it threatened, by offering an imprecise name, to introduce a new element of confusion into their history. Thus, the bill seeking to rename the people was ultimately abondoned and died, but not before it produced some developments that would have future ramifications.
During the same period of interest in the "Siouan" bill, JOseph Brooks wrote to the Commissioner of Indian Affairs, asking what benefits his people would be entitled to if the bill passed. Assist Commissionwer William Zimmerman responded to this inquiry on June 11, 1935, calling particular attention to Section 19 of the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934. This section states:
The term Indian as used in this Act shall include all persons of Indian descent who are members of any recognized Indian tribe now under Federal jurisdiction, and all persons who are descendents of such members who were, on June 1, 1934, residing wiithin the present boundaires of any Indian reservation, and shall further include all other persons of one-half or more Indian blood. Zimmerman went on to say in his letter to Brooks, "in order to share in the benefits of this act, your people must fall within the third class". This meant that they must prove their Indianness according to an artificial standard established by the Washington bureaucracy, a task of almost insurmountable difficulty unless one's family contained individuals previously recognized as Indians by the federal government.
Because of the complexity of determining "Indianness" on the basis of blood, 209 members of the Indian community in Robeson cooperated with a physical anthropologist, Carl Selezer, who used anthropometry in an attempt to determine who was Indian, according to the criterion established by the government. Anthropometry is the science and technique of human measurements. Selezer attempted to determine Indianness on teh basis of anatomical and physiolgical features. Selezer's finding were later revealed to Joseph Brooks in a letter from John Collier, Commission of Indian Affiars. Collier wrote:
The answers to your inquiry as to the result of Dr. Selezer's physical examination of members of the Siouan tribe. A total of 209 individuals were examined, of this total 22 were found, on the basis of the physical test exclusively, to be apparently of one-half or more Indian blood. As you know no toerh evidence was attainable; no generalogical evidence; no historical documentary evidence; and no etymotological evidence. It is not in my power to say whether the findings of the physical anthropologist, Dr. Selezer, will by itself be considered by the Secretary of the Interior to supply the necessary evidence for a final decision upon the question at issue, namely as to whether the 22 number of individuals can be declared Indians under the meaning of the Indian Reorganization Act.
On December 12, 1938, another letter was sent to Brooks by Assistant Commisioner Zimmerman, in which he said:As you may recall, we accepted a total of 209 applications in Robeson County, and of these, 22 applications were recommended for submission to the Secretary. He has ruled that, on the basis of the information presented, the 22 individuals should be considered eligible for enrollment as persons one-half or more Indian, and entitled to benefits established by the Indian Reorganization Act. Please note that no other benerfist are involved. These people did not obtain tribal status or any rights or privileges in any tribe.

That is more than enough to read right now but I think it shows where these couple of people get some of their thoughts from. You know as well as I know some people will interpret things the way they want. My own opinion is that Yes those folks def are Lumbee. For some reason they seem to want to be something different and maybe I am wrong. If I am wrong I hope someone can give some reasons why they are not Lums.

Well, I know you have read enough, I know I have typed enough. Next.........

[Blackbear]

Although I have been told I'm wrong (of course) by some of these individuals, my theory has always been, that whey they were granted the name, but not the federal rights, some of these guys decided to claim tuscarora (some that actually had tuscarora ancestry) instead thinking it would get them federally recognized. A "tuscarora" group of sorts was not seen till the 60's and did not make themselves known to our chiefs till the 70's and from the way I've heard it told, were quite rude about it.
But the NY tuscarora wont' recognize them , Canda cannot recognize them even though there are some from Canada that keep saying they can. And as it goes, when the last journey back to NC (about 100 to 150 years later) by the Tuscarora chiefs to pick up who might remain in NC and bring them back to NY, they found only about 150 individuals and their families and declared that the central fire had been moved to NY and that those who chose to remain behind, would no longer be recognized as tuscarora. I don't believe the state or the federal government will ever recognize them for that reason and many others.

[lumbeedancer]

[QUOTE=NDNQt] For some reason they seem to want to be something different and maybe I am wrong. If I am wrong I hope someone can give some reasons why they are not Lums.

QUOTE]

One thing I do know is that they are siouans (hell maybe one or two could of had some Tuscarora ancestry, i dunno), just like the rest of us (most of us anyway), and they are right to claim that!

As far as trying to seperate themselves from Lums, it's sickening! Selling out their own flesh and blood for their own personal benefit!

Indian crabs at their finest!

[lumbeedancer]

The evidence available thus seems to indicate that the Indians of Robeson County who have been called Croatan and CHerokee are descendants of certain Siouan Tribes, of which the most prominent were the Cheraw and Keyauwee. . . It is not improbable that a few families or small groups of Algonquin connection may have cast their lot with this body of people . . .f the name of any tribe is to be use [for] this body of 6 or 8 thousand people, that of the Cheraw would be most appropriate.

Hmm!

With all due respect to Mr. Dial (the author of this book), he is misquoting Mr. Swanton’s statement!

In the actual letter, Mr. Swanton said that there could have been (and there were) some small influences from the Iroquois (Tuscarora) as well!

On another note: It's also important for folks to note that he stated "this body of 6 or 8 thousand people" meaning that he determined the whole tribe was Siouan (predominantly), not just the 22!

Equally important to know, is that this guy was the man the Dept of Interior relied on, he was the most qualified expert of his time (who possessed extensive knowledge on southeastern tribes and their history), and was the first legitimate historian to actually examine the tribe and our history in any real depth! He was the first man (but not the only one, EACH and EVERY real professional, and there were quite a few, who examined our history after him, confirmed the exact same thing) to speak the truth about who the Lumbee are!



Hell, since we’re on the subject, lets go ahead and clear this up as well:

CROATAN!

A name thrown on the tribe in 1885 by a White politician by the name of Hamilton McMillan! This guy did no real research (nor did he have the qualifications to) he didn’t dig into the community enough to come across things like remnants of our ancient Siouan language (that still existed at this time). All he did was assume we were Croatans (who were actually called Hatteras, this guy didn’t even get the name of the tribe right that he claimed we came from) because, primarily (he had a few other very weak claims as well), a “few” folks told him their family came from a place called Roanoke (which was no doubt actually in reference to the Roanoke river, where there was a federal Tuscarora reservation all the way up until 1804).

McMillan assumed that this was the same Roanoke (North east of the Lumbee, on the NC coast) near where Sir Walter Raleigh’s lost colony disappeared and left the word Croatan carved on a tree. McMillan assumed that Lumbees were an admixture of survivors of this lost colony that were absorbed by Hatteras (he called Croatan) Indians and moved inland to the swamps of Robeson county (in the middle of Siouan territory, give me a break). He was more interested in finding out how some Lumbees had White features than he was in finding out what our actual tribal background was.

This guy convinced many people, yes even some of our own (I know it’s a sad!), to believe we were Croatan without taking the time to truly examine our history and document real facts (such as elements of our Siouan language and the fact that most families came from the South!).



CHEROKEE’s of Robeson County!

A name thrown on the tribe in 1913 by the governor of NC. Never at any time was there any documentation shown connecting the Lumbee to the Cherokee, nor did the Lumbee ever go to the state of NC and ask for this name! This was the result of one man, and one man only (who was not of our people, had no connection to our people, or had ever done any type of research on our people).




The confusion about who the Lumbees are is nothing more than the result of white politicians posing as historians and in part the fault of some past Lumbee leaders who just went with the flow not being completely true to themselves, their history, or their people!

For those who are still confused about who the lumbee are! It’s not hard to find out! All you have to do is rely on our own oral history (NDNQTs grand father is a prime example, his family came from the Pee Dee area where the Cheraws, Keyauwees, and remnants of other closely related tribes merged, this is true for most Lumbee ancestors), rely on oral history of related tribes (like the Catawba, who’s oral history states that the Lumbee lived with them at one time, which the Cheraw did before they left and went to the Pee Dee area), rely on bits of our own actual Siouan language (which the Cheraw and all of those groups that merged with them in the Pee Dee area spoke) that was handed down, rely on the legitimate historical documents (there are several, directly linking us to these tribes), and rely on the studies conducted by legitimate experts and historians (all of which will swear that we are predominantly Siouan) not politicians and amateurs!

[MENINBLK]

I don't know about Lumbee being created in 1956.
My mom was born 1941 as a LUMBEE.
My Grandmother, Esther Chavis, was born in 1921 as a Lumbee.

They have never know anything else.

[Privateer6]

I'm the one who posted about the Tuscarora in Wilson County using the 22 in their petitiion for federal recognition and their attempts to establish a reservation in Wilson County. They are originally from Robeson County and, as per some site members, they probably relocated to Wilson to avoid the Lumbee Act provisions. Nothing new has been reported in the local paper here so I've not posted anything on it.

Like Black Bear said, from what' I've researched, the Tuscarora left NC in the mid 1800s with those remaining behind either blending into the local white culture or joining other Native ones.