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Freedmen Decision Ruled Proper

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  • Freedmen Decision Ruled Proper

    http://news.yahoo.com/second-largest...011650136.html
    YAHOO! NEWS

    Second-largest U.S. Indian tribe expels slave descendants

    By Steve Olafson | Reuters – 13 hrs ago


    OKLAHOMA CITY (Reuters) - The nation's second-largest Indian tribe formally booted from membership thousands of descendants of black slaves who were brought to Oklahoma more than 170 years ago by Native American owners.
    The Cherokee nation voted after the Civil War to admit the slave descendants to the tribe.
    But on Monday, the Cherokee nation Supreme Court ruled that a 2007 tribal decision to kick the so-called "Freedmen" out of the tribe was proper.
    The controversy stems from a footnote in the brutal history of U.S. treatment of Native Americans. When many Indians were forced to move to what later became Oklahoma from the eastern U.S. in 1838, some who had owned plantations in the South brought along their slaves.
    Some 4,000 Indians died during the forced march, which became known as the "Trail of Tears." "And our ancestors carried the baggage," said Marilyn Vann, the Freedman leader who is a plaintiff in the legal battle.
    Officially, there are about 2,800 Freedmen, but another 3,500 have tribal membership applications pending, and there could be as many as 25,000 eligible to enter the tribe, according to Vann.
    The tribal court decision was announced one day before absentee ballots were to be mailed in the election of the Cherokee Principal Chief.
    "This is racism and apartheid in the 21st Century," said Vann, an engineer who lives in Oklahoma City. Spokesmen for the tribe did not respond when asked to comment.
    The move to exclude the Freedmen has rankled some African American members of Congress, which has jurisdiction over all Native American tribes in the country.
    A lawsuit challenging the Freedman's removal from the tribe has been pending in federal court in Washington, for about six years.
    As a sovereign nation, Cherokee Nation officials maintain that the tribe has the right to amend its constitutional membership requirements.
    Removal from the membership rolls means the Freedmen will no longer be eligible for free health care and other benefits such as education concessions.
    sigpic

  • #2
    You know, this is a public board and my identity isn't difficult to discern. I, nearly universally, make someone upset and/or worried about my public perception whenever I offer an opinion on this issue.

    Oh, well.

    This is dumb.

    For approximately 6k people, you have just invited the Feds to "assist" you (pending Fed court case which, likely, was ONLY pending this internal decision) in determining precisely who your members are. In sum, you're begging someone to actually define an area of "limited sovereignty," rolling the dice that you'll be empowered instead of limited.

    Sure, we've gotten away with it before. Gaming, car tags, tobacco taxes, etc., are all examples of either areas where positive legal precedent has been set or negative precedent enforcement has been ignored.

    Why ignored? In many cases, Native casinos prey upon Natives (nobody cares about that). In many cases, the fee and taxation issues impact only states who possess not the ability (for a variety of reasons) to effectively enforce matters. Answer? Convenience and $$$.

    But this Federal case, for every tribe, opens the Pandora's Box of what is -- or is not -- an American Indian, retroactively, within a jurisdiction that actually has the power (limited sovereignty, recall?) and $$$ to make it stick, all for a maximum and likely HIGHLY inflated impact of adding 25k members (making you STRONGER unless this is about entitlements) to your ranks.

    Plus, there's just the hypocrisy of the whole idea. These folks traveled with, lived amongst, married into (come on, be intellectually honest), and otherwise were accepted by the tribe for generations. NOW, some Cherokees are upset because it makes their slice of any internal/external service pie smaller? Or, even better, is this to purify the bloodline?

    BLECH.

    1. I wonder what folks would think if the United States decided to retroactively make the Irish non-citizens?

    2. Or, determined that anyone whose ancestors arrived here on ships stacked as cordwood are no longer citizens because they, you know, "never really were, anyway?"

    Somehow, I think that would be -- correctly -- universally scorned.

    I guess, theoretically, someone could say that the Cherokee never wanted the Freedman with or in the tribe. That's not impossible but, were it the case, why did they bring the population with them?

    If they accepted their presence then, they're duty bound to do so, now: even if some don't like it.
    Last edited by Zeke; 08-25-2011, 01:45 PM. Reason: 3rd person

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    • #3
      Ahhhh, just because my great grandfather loved huckleberry pie does not mean I love it.

      In fact, I love apple pie, and i do not want to share it, and since I can only think about apple pie, that is all I can think about, and I do not want to share it, so the more people I can get to leave this picnic, that means the less people I have to share my pie with. Who cares about the Lemonade or the goat bbq, its all about the pie to me. And I am not worrying about tomorrow, if I eat all the pie today, I will be happy today, I will deal with tomorrow when it gets here. Today is all that matters, and pie.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by iowa_boy View Post
        ahhhh, just because my great grandfather loved huckleberry pie does not mean i love it.

        In fact, i love apple pie, and i do not want to share it, and since i can only think about apple pie, that is all i can think about, and i do not want to share it, so the more people i can get to leave this picnic, that means the less people i have to share my pie with. Who cares about the lemonade or the goat bbq, its all about the pie to me. And i am not worrying about tomorrow, if i eat all the pie today, i will be happy today, i will deal with tomorrow when it gets here. Today is all that matters, and pie.

        pie
        Attached Files

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        • #5

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Zeke View Post
            And people always say, "Pie are squared!"


            Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


            "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

            Mr. Rossie Freeman

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Joe's Dad View Post
              And people always say, "Pie are squared!"
              Square Pie!
              Attached Files

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              • #8


                Chili Pie

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zeke View Post


                  Chili Pie
                  dangit, now I'm hungry

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                  • #10
                    ya'll just wrong for that now...lol!!
                    I will be a good girl , I will be a good girl, I will be a good girl......awe hell, we know this ain't gonna happen....

                    "Daddy would have gotten us Uzis."


                    Subeeds Said:Want to borrow my .30/.30 or do you have your own weapon?

                    Pigheaded said: "How come noone ever wants to pull pork?"

                    Joe'sDad said:"Wait. I can do without sweet. Just make it black...like my heart!"

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                    • #11
                      I think we -- starting with Iowa Boy -- did a GREAT job, with metaphor, of using ridicule to point out how incredibly DUMB this is. :)

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                      • #12
                        Oh No,Zeke, please don't misunderstand me, I am new, I know it takes a bit to get to know one another in this genre, I was merely teasing, ya'll with your pie , whether square or round, and then the addition of the In-famous, free-toe pie, you posted at a point when I had a rumbly in my tumbly, and. it was bad for me, in a giggly way....LOL....and at the same time, I agree, a wonderful job was done with the metaphor by all participants, ....LOL, I'm beginning to like the humor I find here...you guys make me giggle.....
                        I will be a good girl , I will be a good girl, I will be a good girl......awe hell, we know this ain't gonna happen....

                        "Daddy would have gotten us Uzis."


                        Subeeds Said:Want to borrow my .30/.30 or do you have your own weapon?

                        Pigheaded said: "How come noone ever wants to pull pork?"

                        Joe'sDad said:"Wait. I can do without sweet. Just make it black...like my heart!"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Still the biggest bunch of CRAP since Clinton tried to make us believe a Hummer isn't infidelity, at least the Hummer he was getting. And the biggest screw job since Roosevelt took the rivers.

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                          • #14
                            Freedmen Roles

                            http://http://youtu.be/ATvGEAVThro
                            Last edited by AmigoKumeyaay; 09-10-2011, 01:40 AM.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              2,800 out of 300,000. Hmmm.

                              Didn't that happen with the Cabezon Band a few years back? Not the Freedmen, but expelling tribal members?


                              Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


                              "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

                              Mr. Rossie Freeman

                              Comment

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