Native Children and Foster Care Money

[comadre]

the youth powwow group i support has accepted numerous foster kids placed into their urban native households.

All the families pull together, and the kids get compliments on regalia and their dancing all the time.

I've seen this in action, it works!

nice!

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Child of Love

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/11/an-ojibwe-woman-embraces-forgiveness-for-her-mother-a-boarding-school-survivor/

An Ojibwe Woman Embraces Forgiveness for her Mother, a Boarding School Survivor
By ICTMN Staff November 3, 2011

Following her mother’s passing on September 19, 2011, Mary Annette Pember reflected in her blog Daily Yonder on the way Catholic boarding schools drastically impacted her mother and in turn her personal upbringing. She describes her mother, Bernice, 86, as “quick-tempered and harsh, often unmindful of the impact her words had upon us.”

But the more Pember looks back on the pages of history and the way her mother was ripped away from her parents on the Bad River Reservation in Wisconsin to be white-washed at “Sister School,” the more Pember understands how her mother’s ongoing fight for survival harbored resentment at herself as much as the mission schools.

Bernice’s hatred, which festered inward and was inflicted outward on those whom she loved, cost her “a huge chunk of her spirit and humanity,” Pember writes. “Life in a Catholic boarding school bludgeoned her heart so that she would never fully reveal it again to anyone. She made a decision to survive at all costs and steeled herself to wrestle a life from the white man’s world.”

The anger manifested in her treatment of her children. “The legacy of Sister School was handed down to us. Unlike an innocent family legend, however, its force entered our veins,” Pember writes.

Coming to terms with the source of her mother’s angst has allowed Pember to forgive and to love. “Naming this rage has helped me diminish its power,” she explains in her blog post “Child of Love,” which is the meaning of an Indian name given to those stripped of their traditional names.

[pigheaded]

Considering that the social network you're lauding didn't manage to raise the parents to be worth a d*mn, I find your reasoning -- what little there is - to be somewhat short of convincing.

It's not 1890 anymore and there's not a gun to your head.

GROW UP.

Dude, what Utopic, land of make believe do you live in? Seriously, what rez did you grow up on that was so Euphoric, that crap like this didn't happen, and where you, (once again) would blame a victim. Yes, abusive and neglectful parents should not be able to have there kids, but AGAIN, if you weren't in a state of grand delusion you should have seen kids getting taken away for no more reason than they had the power to do so. Just as the article stated with it's example, with nothing resolved except that they returned the kid with no apology after a threat of kidnapping charges, with a threat that it could happen again. There was NO evidence of abuse, neglect or mistreatment, so again, I ask, what fairytale land of make believe did you grow up in Mr. Rogers?

If you're crappy enough as a parent to have your kids removed, you shouldn't have any more.

Again Read the article before passing self righteous Shinola

I'm not opposed to forced sterilization.

I hope you are volunteering, NO one should ever subject a child to your line of thinking.

GROW UP.

[email protected]#$%&*[email protected]#$%^&*....

[Zeke]

Rather- the article and subject is about the removal of native children from (not their abusive parents) but the native COMMUNITY as a whole.Therefore losing their ties to their natural EXTENDED family and COMMUNITY.

When the community IS the problem AND hasn't shown an ability to positively impact parents...

[Zeke]

I hope you are volunteering, NO one should ever subject a child to your line of thinking.

Well, not any Native child that desires other than to be accountable and/or succeed in life.

My son has skipped grades, plays football, the saxophone, is nearly a black belt in karate and is well beyond where I was at his age: and he LOVES doing this stuff.

And?

It's NOT a grading scale but let's not pretend such things occur by accident.

Were I -- and his brilliant and Master's degreed bilingual Native mother -- the sort that bought your garbage, he'd likely be blaming society for not knowing what good espresso tastes like, if he knew what it was having developed under your closeted thought process.

GROW UP.

[pigheaded]

Well, not any Native child that desires other than to be accountable and/or succeed in life.

My son has skipped grades, plays football, the saxophone, is nearly a black belt in karate and is well beyond where I was at his age: and he LOVES doing this stuff.

And?

It's NOT a grading scale but let's not pretend such things occur by accident.

Were I -- and his brilliant and Master's degreed bilingual Native mother -- the sort that bought your garbage, he'd likely be blaming society for not knowing what good espresso tastes like, if he knew what it was having developed under your closeted thought process.

GROW UP.

Well, then my apologies for not knowing that all is right in the world. Them [email protected] indians, I guess are just all a bunch of drunken abusive and neglectful pieces of crap who deserve to have their children taken from them and the community, because, well, you know, they are all alike, probably all look a like to you too, right? Pardon me for not realizing that the only good Indian, is ... well, ... Zeke! More importantly though is the fact that though native children suffer at the hands of a system that has AWLWAYS been against them, and not a bunch of garbage of blaming society about our woes, at least Zeke's kid knows what really good espresso taste like!(Hope you didn't miss the ragin sarcasm here) I know I'll sleep better at night knowing that Zeke and his family's are in full enjoyment of dominate white society's amenities. All while blaming folks for the crap dealt them, you know, like the aborted child, after all it's probably their own fault, I mean they didn't asked to be born anyway right, so since they didn't ask, they have no right to take up precious space. Or, the disabled, probably just a bunch of free loaders sucking the system dry, right Zeke, And of course we all know how you feel about rape, and doin drunk chicks. Was probably our own faults for occupying the white's land before they got here too, right?

Again Zeke, my statement still stand, "That's mighty WHITE of YOU!"

I know you have taught me one thing though, I shall never make fun of the whiteness of my wife ever again, because I realize that though her skin is white, her values are Native, and always have been. Where as, you may look native, it is clear to see that your values and way of thinking, are so white you are practically albino.

Amigo? Ok I realize why you edited my post, but did you really have to take out the ...and the horse and/or public transportation system you rode in on? I mean that was classic! And I don't care who you are, that's just funny!

[yaahl]

Perhaps child apprehension laws are different in the US but here in Canada, many of our children were taken from their homes by zealous social workers that knew or understood little about anything First Nation.

I myself was apprehended when I was a three month old... the reason? The doctor that was visiting the community for immunization noticed that I had what appeared as a bruise on the base of my spine. Without asking my mother what it could be, he called the Child Services and had them apprehend me that night from my crib. Since I also had siblings in the home, they grabbed them too. My parents weren't bad people, my mom at that time worked in the courts and my dad was in the military.

It took my parents over a year to get us back and it was only achieved by paying for a prominent pediatrician to fly in to testify that they "bruise" on my spine was in called a Mongolian blue spot. Apparently, lots of Native kids (and Asian kids) are born with it. In the Child services affidavit, it sets out that the alleged physical force blow to my spine had caused a permanent discolouration and it even went on to say in the alternative, that it appeared to be some sort of tattooing that my parents had marked me with (since historical photos of Haida men and women showed tattoos it was alleged that we inflict this on the spines of our children).

Had my parents not had the financial ability to sustain the court actions, we in all likelihood would have been made wards of the child services and put up for adoption. It cost my parents over 50k in legal fees/expert witnesses and traveling to the court to get us back. Zeke, in all fairness how many average families can sustain that kind of financial drain? Most child apprehension cases are lost not because of being bad parents but because the parents can't sustain the legal fees to get the kids back... hearings up here can drag on for over a year and you may well see each child apprehended having their own hearings... The balance of power is firmly vested in the Child Services, there is no such thing in an apprehension hearing as innocent until proven guilty. A parent must fight an uphill battle from the moment their child is taken.

The funny thing is when I was at law school, one of my clinical practicums was working with both a family court judge and the child services for my courses on advanced family law. I also wrote my substantial law paper on Native kids and apprehensions... I won't bore you with the stats and causes of apprehensions... suffice to say that for a period of approx 50 years - called the sixties scoop, many Native kids were apprehended to feed the needs of adopting white parents. As many as 85% of the kids apprehended by child protection agencies from Northern Ontario and Manitoba were Native - in that area the Native population is about 25%. In the US, legislation had to be passed to prevent native kids from being adopted outside their communities while Canada turned a blind eye to the massive numbers of kids taken from communities to be sent to the US to fill the gap for adopting parents. Over 3000 kids from Manitoba were snatched during this time and many of them are now experiencing a second generation of the sixties snatch... read this article to understand the term... http://www.wrcfs.org/repat/childrengoing.htm

In Canada, the policy of assimilation ran (and some would say still runs) to make white kids out of Native kids. Once the residential schools closed, assimilation took on the veil of child protection. In the "On Our Way Home" report, it sets out that: "The number of First Nations children adopted by non-First Nations parents increased fivefold from the early 1960s to the late 1970s. Non-First Nations families accounted for 78per cent of the adoptions of First Nations children."

Unlike the residential schools, the kids that were and are apprehended or given up are not likely to be told about being Native. Adoption records can be scant with information about the child's origins. It has on;y been a recent event that disclosure of any treaty rights to an adoptee has been provided - the kick is.. the adoptee must ask for that information - it's not voluntarily provided by the child service agency. So if a kid grows up thinking that they are "french" - an origin most often told to a Native kid up here - they would have no reason to ever ask for the disclosure. One province does however, make the disclosure when the child reaches 18 - providing the adoptee can be found.

A recent 1999 SCC decision puts Native kids back on the wholesale adoption block to be placed with non-native families. In his response to the decision Eric Robinson MLA for Manitoba states:

"We are now faced with a second generation sixties scoop. We cannot let this happen. There have been more than 3,000 Aboriginal kids shipped out of province and out of the country. This case is a sell off of our children: the Supreme Court of Canada sold out to the highest bidder; the white grandparents are wealthy and the Aboriginal grandfather is not. I wonder if the Supreme Court really understands what has been happening in that home in the US. In effect the Court is further perpetuating genocide."

Railing that it's the parent's fault negates the overarching assimilation policies that still continue to dictate child apprehension hearings. Claiming that the communities should be a better place also negates that assimilation policies reach much further than the boundaries of the reserve. It finds kids in urban areas as well.

[comadre]

Well, then my apologies for not knowing that all is right in the world. Them [email protected] indians, I guess are just all a bunch of drunken abusive and neglectful pieces of crap who deserve to have their children taken from them and the community, because, well, you know, they are all alike, probably all look a like to you too, right? Pardon me for not realizing that the only good Indian, is ... well, ... Zeke! More importantly though is the fact that though native children suffer at the hands of a system that has AWLWAYS been against them, and not a bunch of garbage of blaming society about our woes, at least Zeke's kid knows what really good espresso taste like!(Hope you didn't miss the ragin sarcasm here) I know I'll sleep better at night knowing that Zeke and his family's are in full enjoyment of dominate white society's amenities. All while blaming folks for the crap dealt them, you know, like the aborted child, after all it's probably their own fault, I mean they didn't asked to be born anyway right, so since they didn't ask, they have no right to take up precious space. Or, the disabled, probably just a bunch of free loaders sucking the system dry, right Zeke, And of course we all know how you feel about rape, and doin drunk chicks. Was probably our own faults for occupying the white's land before they got here too, right?

Again Zeke, my statement still stand, "That's mighty WHITE of YOU!"

I know you have taught me one thing though, I shall never make fun of the whiteness of my wife ever again, because I realize that though her skin is white, her values are Native, and always have been. Where as, you may look native, it is clear to see that your values and way of thinking, are so white you are practically albino.

Amigo? Ok I realize why you edited my post, but did you really have to take out the ...and the horse and/or public transportation system you rode in on? I mean that was classic! And I don't care who you are, that's just funny!

PEACE MY FRIEND
sweet gentle peace. : )

[Zeke]

I guess are just all a bunch of drunken abusive and neglectful pieces of crap who deserve to have their children taken from them and the community, because, well, you know, they are all alike...

If you manage/deserve to get your kids taken away due to incompetence?

Uh, YES.

at least Zeke's kid knows what really good espresso taste like!(Hope you didn't miss the ragin sarcasm here)

You did.

I know I'll sleep better at night knowing that Zeke and his family's are in full enjoyment of dominate white society's amenities.

Like being parents that deserve to keep their children?

All while blaming folks for the crap dealt them...

I wasn't aware that disavowing circumstances use as a crutch had anything to do with blame: unless you're actively searching for reasons to not be accountable, perpetuating victim status for purposes of generational guilt...

And of course we all know how you feel about rape, and doin drunk chicks.

That, perhaps, they shouldn't be drunk?

Was probably our own faults for occupying the white's land before they got here too, right?

It's our fault for allowing then to impact us NOW, sure.

I know you have taught me one thing though, I shall never make fun of the whiteness of my wife ever again, because I realize that though her skin is white, her values are Native, and always have been. Where as, you may look native, it is clear to see that your values and way of thinking, are so white you are practically albino.

Only if you believe Natives possess only the capacity to be social wards.

Amigo? Ok I realize why you edited my post, but did you really have to take out the ...and the horse and/or public transportation system you rode in on? I mean that was classic! And I don't care who you are, that's just funny!

The reality is that you're not as smart as my dog(s), because they have the self-awareness to realize that they are pets.

I am embarrassed FOR you.

[comadre]

When the community IS the problem AND hasn't shown an ability to positively impact parents...

Zeke, do you think that anything yaahl said might have happened here in our own country as well? And if there were brilliant native people like your wife,who had stories of losing their children when the abuse did not exist would you be willing to hear their stories?
And what about the children who have been removed and never made it back to their communities and do not know their families simply because the Indian child welfare act was not followed.
For those whose families may have been involved in something below the virtuous line, does forgiveness later in life and healing of families mean anything?If it does then perhaps we all should ask if the road toward doing so is open.

[Zeke]

Zeke, do you think that anything yaahl said might have happened here in our own country as well? And if there were brilliant native people like your wife,who had stories of losing their children when the abuse did not exist would you be willing to hear their stories?
And what about the children who have been removed and never made it back to their communities and do not know their families simply because the Indian child welfare act was not followed.
For those whose families may have been involved in something below the virtuous line, does forgiveness later in life and healing of families mean anything?If it does then perhaps we all should ask if the road toward doing so is open.

Well, I am not married (or perfect) but that doesn't mean she's not brilliant or wonderful. I like the fact that my nearly twelve-year-old son tweeted me about the quality of his latte this morning and plays jazz on a baritone sax! It's GOOD STUFF.

As for the esoteric concept of forgiveness and ICWA? I think ICWA is grotesque and farcical, believing it best to give a kid to a grandparent or relative -- likely existing in the same problematic environment as the original parents -- as opposed to a theoretical loving billionaire merely because they are not Native... If the community is the issue, why would we ever want to saddle someone with return?

"Yes child, this is a rez meth house. But it is YOUR rez meth house and a legacy of which to be proud..."

GARBAGE.

In reference to many families losing kids merely because they cannot afford legal fees, I note that they seem to have few issues obtaining cigarettes or Thunderbird?

[wanjica_the_one]

We have a foster child, enrolled with the Mojave tribe of California and is also part Hunkpati Dakota. We do not receive any monies. He was 1 lb when born and he is a survivor.

[yaahl]

In reference to many families losing kids merely because they cannot afford legal fees, I note that they seem to have few issues obtaining cigarettes or Thunderbird?

Not sure what you think you can hire a lawyer for these days for a child apprehension case but if said parent smoked a pack a day at 10 bucks for 25 smokes... over the course of a year it might and I say might... get them about 10 hours of a lawyer's time*...those 10 hours might get a brief appearance at the 72 hour hearing and some research done. That is of course if the retainer is paid first which is usually in the region of 5-7k. That amount gets you about 15 hours. Imagine how much a year's worth of litigation is going to cost...those smokes you mentioned are just a drop in a very large bucket.

Hardly an argument worthy of your intellect Zeke. I think in this debate you are suffering from headupbuttitis. Willing people to not be affected by poverty, addiction, violence and generational trauma isn't going to magically make it all go away neither is ignoring it going to make it go away. Arguing with those whose opinion differs from you by simply calling them on their lack of articulation is again, an unworthy use of your intellect. I am disappointed that you have gone that route. I expected better from you.

*providing if the lawyer charges less than 350 an hour.

[comadre]

Well, I am not married (or perfect) but that doesn't mean she's not brilliant or wonderful. I like the fact that my nearly twelve-year-old son tweeted me about the quality of his latte this morning and plays jazz on a baritone sax! It's GOOD STUFF.

As for the esoteric concept of forgiveness and ICWA? I think ICWA is grotesque and farcical, believing it best to give a kid to a grandparent or relative -- likely existing in the same problematic environment as the original parents -- as opposed to a theoretical loving billionaire merely because they are not Native... If the community is the issue, why would we ever want to saddle someone with return?

"Yes child, this is a rez meth house. But it is YOUR rez meth house and a legacy of which to be proud..."

GARBAGE.

In reference to many families losing kids merely because they cannot afford legal fees, I note that they seem to have few issues obtaining cigarettes or Thunderbird?

Bear with me here as I am not as techy in the use of this computer stuff. Can't break down the quote "thingy" like you can but let me try to address your answer as best I can.

Well, I am not married (or perfect) but that doesn't mean she's not brilliant or wonderful. I like the fact that my nearly twelve-year-old son tweeted me about the quality of his latte this morning and plays jazz on a baritone sax! It's GOOD STUFF.
right on. : )

I think ICWA is grotesque and farcical, believing it best to give a kid to a grandparent or relative -- likely existing in the same problematic environment as the original parents -
I do agree with you that giving a child to a grandparent or relative in the same neglectful and/or abusive environment as the problematic environment the parents came from is-WRONG.And I too see it neglectful to "saddle" a child with on going abuse in the name of "culture" or "community". What you described could also be termed oppression and it is wrong.period.


In reference to many families losing kids merely because they cannot afford legal fees, I note that they seem to have few issues obtaining cigarettes or Thunderbird?
I (I can only speak for myself) have not been talking about these types of families.

as opposed to a theoretical loving billionaire merely because they are not Native.

You get no argument here from me on this issue! Though I am still working on that billion dollars!LOL

Zeke, those circumstances in which I have been talking about do not involve abusive families. And in those circumstances ICWA was meant I believe to protect from illegal removals due to cultural misunderstandings that were taking place in high numbers.
I think it is a misconception that ICWA does not place in non native homes.I think they have used the MEPA to place a child with an appropriate placement outside their native culture if need be.
This is so difficult to discuss if we do not address the actual stories themselves. yaahl for instance gave us one. And it was a good illustration of what can happen here in the states as well.Not only on the reservations but also in the suburban lands.Not always-but certainly enough to catch suspicion that native families should arm themselves with knowledge in this area.

p.s. forgive me for marrying you off to the brilliant lady. LOL!

[pigheaded]

First and for most, you can take your so called embarrassment and shove it. Second of all , if you would for even a few moment deflate that over inflated undeserving ego of yours long enough to listen to anything any one said on here, you would see, that NO ONE, ever argued that fact that if you are an abusive or neglectful parent, that your children should be removed, in fact there are a few posts in which that statement was made, CLEARLY, even before you chimed in. The problem Zeke, is your over zealousness to blame victims, and I know, I know, you have an argument for that as well, probably that its their own fault for being a victim.

I truly think, and I do not mean to be insulting here, I think the problem is that either you've lived in the dominate society long enough that you have adopted their views of Natives and the community or you have never lived on the rez and have always lived in the dominate society. Either way, you disdain for natives and their culture is clear.

[QUOTE=Zeke;1495861
"Yes child, this is a rez meth house. But it is YOUR rez meth house and a legacy of which to be proud..."
GARBAGE.
In reference to many families losing kids merely because they cannot afford legal fees, I note that they seem to have few issues obtaining cigarettes or Thunderbird? [/QUOTE]

As opposed to white suburbia meth house? White kids who get taken from their homes, usually are placed with next of kin. Grandma, Grandpa, Uncles, Aunts, older siblings, why is it ok for them but deplorable to place a Native child in a native home on the rez. Sorry I don't buy the whole the rez is F#@%ed up because the world is [email protected]#$ed up. A white kid has the same chance of being molested, neglected or abused in the family and society that Native kids, do, mainly because it's a family disease, a molester was usually molested, who was molested by someone who was molested, who was moles....., An abuser, was usually abused, by someone who was .... a neglectful parent was neglect... you see the pattern right?

[QUOTE=Zeke;149586 cigarettes or Thunderbird? [/QUOTE]
It's comments like that, that are the reasons I call you Whitey. I mean you might as well call a black guy a lazy N word. All while wearing a sheet and a pointy pillow case on your head. Seriously, that is just a stereotypical racist remark. True alcoholism is high on the rez, but to label all is just appalling especially for one native to say about another. Pot - Kettle


Well, I am not married (or perfect) but that doesn't mean she's not brilliant or wonderful. I like the fact that my nearly twelve-year-old son tweeted me about the quality of his latte this morning and plays jazz on a baritone sax! It's GOOD STUFF.
I do apologizing if it appeared to be attacking your family, not my intent. There is nothing wrong with enjoying a good cappuccino, or espresso, there is for me, I just don't like em, too froo froo, but hey that's me.


I think ICWA is grotesque and farcical, believing it best to give a kid to a grandparent or relative -- likely existing in the same problematic environment as the original parents -

Maybe that is because you have never had to rely on or fight them. It can work both ways, And again, your thinking on this is typical dominant societies thoughts, ICWA's a pain in the arse, because they are only gonna work for the NAtives. Not true, white society only works whats best for them, ICWA and native community works for what is in the best interest of everyone. the child, the parent, the family, the clan, the tribe, the community. I think a lack of ignorance(as in not informed) has clouded your judgment. I think once again we have seen the expert opinion of someone who has NEVER dealt with this type of situation, but seems to have all the fact, without any of the truth.

We have a foster child, enrolled with the Mojave tribe of California and is also part Hunkpati Dakota. We do not receive any monies. He was 1 lb when born and he is a survivor.

That's awesome!