Native Children and Foster Care Money

[comadre]

Well, then my apologies for not knowing that all is right in the world. Them [email protected] indians, I guess are just all a bunch of drunken abusive and neglectful pieces of crap who deserve to have their children taken from them and the community, because, well, you know, they are all alike, probably all look a like to you too, right? Pardon me for not realizing that the only good Indian, is ... well, ... Zeke! More importantly though is the fact that though native children suffer at the hands of a system that has AWLWAYS been against them, and not a bunch of garbage of blaming society about our woes, at least Zeke's kid knows what really good espresso taste like!(Hope you didn't miss the ragin sarcasm here) I know I'll sleep better at night knowing that Zeke and his family's are in full enjoyment of dominate white society's amenities. All while blaming folks for the crap dealt them, you know, like the aborted child, after all it's probably their own fault, I mean they didn't asked to be born anyway right, so since they didn't ask, they have no right to take up precious space. Or, the disabled, probably just a bunch of free loaders sucking the system dry, right Zeke, And of course we all know how you feel about rape, and doin drunk chicks. Was probably our own faults for occupying the white's land before they got here too, right?

Again Zeke, my statement still stand, "That's mighty WHITE of YOU!"

I know you have taught me one thing though, I shall never make fun of the whiteness of my wife ever again, because I realize that though her skin is white, her values are Native, and always have been. Where as, you may look native, it is clear to see that your values and way of thinking, are so white you are practically albino.

Amigo? Ok I realize why you edited my post, but did you really have to take out the ...and the horse and/or public transportation system you rode in on? I mean that was classic! And I don't care who you are, that's just funny!

PEACE MY FRIEND
sweet gentle peace. : )

[yaahl]

Perhaps child apprehension laws are different in the US but here in Canada, many of our children were taken from their homes by zealous social workers that knew or understood little about anything First Nation.

I myself was apprehended when I was a three month old... the reason? The doctor that was visiting the community for immunization noticed that I had what appeared as a bruise on the base of my spine. Without asking my mother what it could be, he called the Child Services and had them apprehend me that night from my crib. Since I also had siblings in the home, they grabbed them too. My parents weren't bad people, my mom at that time worked in the courts and my dad was in the military.

It took my parents over a year to get us back and it was only achieved by paying for a prominent pediatrician to fly in to testify that they "bruise" on my spine was in called a Mongolian blue spot. Apparently, lots of Native kids (and Asian kids) are born with it. In the Child services affidavit, it sets out that the alleged physical force blow to my spine had caused a permanent discolouration and it even went on to say in the alternative, that it appeared to be some sort of tattooing that my parents had marked me with (since historical photos of Haida men and women showed tattoos it was alleged that we inflict this on the spines of our children).

Had my parents not had the financial ability to sustain the court actions, we in all likelihood would have been made wards of the child services and put up for adoption. It cost my parents over 50k in legal fees/expert witnesses and traveling to the court to get us back. Zeke, in all fairness how many average families can sustain that kind of financial drain? Most child apprehension cases are lost not because of being bad parents but because the parents can't sustain the legal fees to get the kids back... hearings up here can drag on for over a year and you may well see each child apprehended having their own hearings... The balance of power is firmly vested in the Child Services, there is no such thing in an apprehension hearing as innocent until proven guilty. A parent must fight an uphill battle from the moment their child is taken.

The funny thing is when I was at law school, one of my clinical practicums was working with both a family court judge and the child services for my courses on advanced family law. I also wrote my substantial law paper on Native kids and apprehensions... I won't bore you with the stats and causes of apprehensions... suffice to say that for a period of approx 50 years - called the sixties scoop, many Native kids were apprehended to feed the needs of adopting white parents. As many as 85% of the kids apprehended by child protection agencies from Northern Ontario and Manitoba were Native - in that area the Native population is about 25%. In the US, legislation had to be passed to prevent native kids from being adopted outside their communities while Canada turned a blind eye to the massive numbers of kids taken from communities to be sent to the US to fill the gap for adopting parents. Over 3000 kids from Manitoba were snatched during this time and many of them are now experiencing a second generation of the sixties snatch... read this article to understand the term... http://www.wrcfs.org/repat/childrengoing.htm

In Canada, the policy of assimilation ran (and some would say still runs) to make white kids out of Native kids. Once the residential schools closed, assimilation took on the veil of child protection. In the "On Our Way Home" report, it sets out that: "The number of First Nations children adopted by non-First Nations parents increased fivefold from the early 1960s to the late 1970s. Non-First Nations families accounted for 78per cent of the adoptions of First Nations children."

Unlike the residential schools, the kids that were and are apprehended or given up are not likely to be told about being Native. Adoption records can be scant with information about the child's origins. It has on;y been a recent event that disclosure of any treaty rights to an adoptee has been provided - the kick is.. the adoptee must ask for that information - it's not voluntarily provided by the child service agency. So if a kid grows up thinking that they are "french" - an origin most often told to a Native kid up here - they would have no reason to ever ask for the disclosure. One province does however, make the disclosure when the child reaches 18 - providing the adoptee can be found.

A recent 1999 SCC decision puts Native kids back on the wholesale adoption block to be placed with non-native families. In his response to the decision Eric Robinson MLA for Manitoba states:

"We are now faced with a second generation sixties scoop. We cannot let this happen. There have been more than 3,000 Aboriginal kids shipped out of province and out of the country. This case is a sell off of our children: the Supreme Court of Canada sold out to the highest bidder; the white grandparents are wealthy and the Aboriginal grandfather is not. I wonder if the Supreme Court really understands what has been happening in that home in the US. In effect the Court is further perpetuating genocide."

Railing that it's the parent's fault negates the overarching assimilation policies that still continue to dictate child apprehension hearings. Claiming that the communities should be a better place also negates that assimilation policies reach much further than the boundaries of the reserve. It finds kids in urban areas as well.

Well, not any Native child that desires other than to be accountable and/or succeed in life.

My son has skipped grades, plays football, the saxophone, is nearly a black belt in karate and is well beyond where I was at his age: and he LOVES doing this stuff.

And?

It's NOT a grading scale but let's not pretend such things occur by accident.

Were I -- and his brilliant and Master's degreed bilingual Native mother -- the sort that bought your garbage, he'd likely be blaming society for not knowing what good espresso tastes like, if he knew what it was having developed under your closeted thought process.

GROW UP.

Well, then my apologies for not knowing that all is right in the world. Them [email protected] indians, I guess are just all a bunch of drunken abusive and neglectful pieces of crap who deserve to have their children taken from them and the community, because, well, you know, they are all alike, probably all look a like to you too, right? Pardon me for not realizing that the only good Indian, is ... well, ... Zeke! More importantly though is the fact that though native children suffer at the hands of a system that has AWLWAYS been against them, and not a bunch of garbage of blaming society about our woes, at least Zeke's kid knows what really good espresso taste like!(Hope you didn't miss the ragin sarcasm here) I know I'll sleep better at night knowing that Zeke and his family's are in full enjoyment of dominate white society's amenities. All while blaming folks for the crap dealt them, you know, like the aborted child, after all it's probably their own fault, I mean they didn't asked to be born anyway right, so since they didn't ask, they have no right to take up precious space. Or, the disabled, probably just a bunch of free loaders sucking the system dry, right Zeke, And of course we all know how you feel about rape, and doin drunk chicks. Was probably our own faults for occupying the white's land before they got here too, right?

Again Zeke, my statement still stand, "That's mighty WHITE of YOU!"

I know you have taught me one thing though, I shall never make fun of the whiteness of my wife ever again, because I realize that though her skin is white, her values are Native, and always have been. Where as, you may look native, it is clear to see that your values and way of thinking, are so white you are practically albino.

Amigo? Ok I realize why you edited my post, but did you really have to take out the ...and the horse and/or public transportation system you rode in on? I mean that was classic! And I don't care who you are, that's just funny!

[Zeke]

I hope you are volunteering, NO one should ever subject a child to your line of thinking.

Well, not any Native child that desires other than to be accountable and/or succeed in life.

My son has skipped grades, plays football, the saxophone, is nearly a black belt in karate and is well beyond where I was at his age: and he LOVES doing this stuff.

And?

It's NOT a grading scale but let's not pretend such things occur by accident.

Were I -- and his brilliant and Master's degreed bilingual Native mother -- the sort that bought your garbage, he'd likely be blaming society for not knowing what good espresso tastes like, if he knew what it was having developed under your closeted thought process.

GROW UP.

[Zeke]

Rather- the article and subject is about the removal of native children from (not their abusive parents) but the native COMMUNITY as a whole.Therefore losing their ties to their natural EXTENDED family and COMMUNITY.

When the community IS the problem AND hasn't shown an ability to positively impact parents...

Considering that the social network you're lauding didn't manage to raise the parents to be worth a d*mn, I find your reasoning -- what little there is - to be somewhat short of convincing.

It's not 1890 anymore and there's not a gun to your head.

GROW UP.

Dude, what Utopic, land of make believe do you live in? Seriously, what rez did you grow up on that was so Euphoric, that crap like this didn't happen, and where you, (once again) would blame a victim. Yes, abusive and neglectful parents should not be able to have there kids, but AGAIN, if you weren't in a state of grand delusion you should have seen kids getting taken away for no more reason than they had the power to do so. Just as the article stated with it's example, with nothing resolved except that they returned the kid with no apology after a threat of kidnapping charges, with a threat that it could happen again. There was NO evidence of abuse, neglect or mistreatment, so again, I ask, what fairytale land of make believe did you grow up in Mr. Rogers?

If you're crappy enough as a parent to have your kids removed, you shouldn't have any more.

Again Read the article before passing self righteous Shinola

I'm not opposed to forced sterilization.

I hope you are volunteering, NO one should ever subject a child to your line of thinking.

GROW UP.

[email protected]#$%&*[email protected]#$%^&*....

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Child of Love

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/11/an-ojibwe-woman-embraces-forgiveness-for-her-mother-a-boarding-school-survivor/

An Ojibwe Woman Embraces Forgiveness for her Mother, a Boarding School Survivor
By ICTMN Staff November 3, 2011

Following her mother’s passing on September 19, 2011, Mary Annette Pember reflected in her blog Daily Yonder on the way Catholic boarding schools drastically impacted her mother and in turn her personal upbringing. She describes her mother, Bernice, 86, as “quick-tempered and harsh, often unmindful of the impact her words had upon us.”

But the more Pember looks back on the pages of history and the way her mother was ripped away from her parents on the Bad River Reservation in Wisconsin to be white-washed at “Sister School,” the more Pember understands how her mother’s ongoing fight for survival harbored resentment at herself as much as the mission schools.

Bernice’s hatred, which festered inward and was inflicted outward on those whom she loved, cost her “a huge chunk of her spirit and humanity,” Pember writes. “Life in a Catholic boarding school bludgeoned her heart so that she would never fully reveal it again to anyone. She made a decision to survive at all costs and steeled herself to wrestle a life from the white man’s world.”

The anger manifested in her treatment of her children. “The legacy of Sister School was handed down to us. Unlike an innocent family legend, however, its force entered our veins,” Pember writes.

Coming to terms with the source of her mother’s angst has allowed Pember to forgive and to love. “Naming this rage has helped me diminish its power,” she explains in her blog post “Child of Love,” which is the meaning of an Indian name given to those stripped of their traditional names.

[comadre]

the youth powwow group i support has accepted numerous foster kids placed into their urban native households.

All the families pull together, and the kids get compliments on regalia and their dancing all the time.

I've seen this in action, it works!

nice!

[AmigoKumeyaay]

The youth powwow group I support has accepted numerous foster kids placed into their urban Native households.

All the families pull together, and the kids get compliments on regalia and their dancing all the time.

I've seen this in action, it works!

[comadre]

Wow~ lots of passion in this thread.
But I do want to point out that the article that we are discussing here is not about the native kids being removed for abuse or the need to find permanent placement for abused kids.
Rather- the article and subject is about the removal of native children from (not their abusive parents) but the native COMMUNITY as a whole.Therefore losing their ties to their natural EXTENDED family and COMMUNITY.This the article points out is done so easily because of the failure of the state to follow Indian Child Welfare Act that was put in place to protect native children from assimilation and washing out their blood ties and culture.
Anna is a good example of an "Indian foster care home" as her profile defines her as tribal affiliated.Thank God for you Anna.I think(sadly) the native community needs more of you. However, the article does also point out that the Grandma asked her children be placed into an "Indian family" and yet they were not.She did not request an abusive native family.She simply asked for her children's extended family and heritage be considered.

[Zeke]

Abusive parents, while responsible for their own actions today...

...did not GROW UP PROPERLY


They are continuing the dysfunctional patterns they GREW UP with.

Abused children become abusive adults.

So, of course, they should be REMOVED from that environment.

That's the point.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Considering that the social network you're lauding didn't manage to raise the parents to be worth a d*mn, I find your reasoning -- what little there is - to be somewhat short of convincing.

It's not 1890 anymore and there's not a gun to your head.

GROW UP.

Abusive parents, while responsible for their own actions today...

...did not GROW UP PROPERLY


They are continuing the dysfunctional patterns they GREW UP with.

Abused children become abusive adults.

[comadre]

I see all of your points througout this thread - but what about those native kids who are much better off in foster care? I am a foster parent - and i am a adoptive parent. and i've met other foster families within my agency that i work with - and i live in a urban area - and some of these children are by far better off in foster care then being in the same situation they were in with their parents. What do you do about the children who have been so abused by their bio family so much that they have day time hallucinations at age 8 - or hoard food because they are worried they wont have food next time? or the child who witnessed his parents murdering someone and then just leaving him at a gas station? Everyone wants to say - send the child back to the family - but sometimes that is NOT the best thing. Sometimes staying in a foster situation is better than living with murdering parents or with extremly abusive parents. ICWA is involved and often times the tribe is also extremely invovled. It all depends on if the tribe understand the law to its fullest extent and understands what they are able to do on their own. In my adoption i have 5 different workers - why - because i have native kids that require a tribal work - a social worker - and a foster worker - and all the back up workers. so Sometimes foster care in the right context is a good alternative to living in deplorable situations. Now i'm not referring to being poor - or ill educated or housing over crowded - but some times there are real social ills that the PARENTS will need to handle and they only way to handle is to remove the child. Would you leave a child in a home with no food? would you leave a child in a home where they were being abused? would you leave child in a home where they saw the parents killing someone?

The whole - great white hope - whil still relevent for some things i suppose - it is the PARENTS that have to retain their parent rights and do the BASIC care for their children. Basics are - a safe home - clothing- food- and acccess to education. Is this too hard for parentes? I say for some yes -- they care more about their partying or their getting high - but what happens to the child? what then? So all this its the white man getting in the way is - so old. Parents no matter what race or what year will need to take care of their own childrend and if they cant or unable to - then apparently social services needs to step in.

Anna Nichol, you are part of the solution for those children who need to be removed.period. thank you for what you do.

[Zeke]

So grandma's not good enough, or uncle, or aunties, cousins, friends.

Considering that the social network you're lauding didn't manage to raise the parents to be worth a d*mn, I find your reasoning -- what little there is - to be somewhat short of convincing.

It's not 1890 anymore and there's not a gun to your head.

GROW UP.

I see all of your points througout this thread - but what about those native kids who are much better off in foster care? I am a foster parent - and i am a adoptive parent. and i've met other foster families within my agency that i work with - and i live in a urban area - and some of these children are by far better off in foster care then being in the same situation they were in with their parents. What do you do about the children who have been so abused by their bio family so much that they have day time hallucinations at age 8 - or hoard food because they are worried they wont have food next time? or the child who witnessed his parents murdering someone and then just leaving him at a gas station? Everyone wants to say - send the child back to the family - but sometimes that is NOT the best thing. Sometimes staying in a foster situation is better than living with murdering parents or with extremly abusive parents. ICWA is involved and often times the tribe is also extremely invovled. It all depends on if the tribe understand the law to its fullest extent and understands what they are able to do on their own. In my adoption i have 5 different workers - why - because i have native kids that require a tribal work - a social worker - and a foster worker - and all the back up workers. so Sometimes foster care in the right context is a good alternative to living in deplorable situations. Now i'm not referring to being poor - or ill educated or housing over crowded - but some times there are real social ills that the PARENTS will need to handle and they only way to handle is to remove the child. Would you leave a child in a home with no food? would you leave a child in a home where they were being abused? would you leave child in a home where they saw the parents killing someone?

The whole - great white hope - whil still relevent for some things i suppose - it is the PARENTS that have to retain their parent rights and do the BASIC care for their children. Basics are - a safe home - clothing- food- and acccess to education. Is this too hard for parentes? I say for some yes -- they care more about their partying or their getting high - but what happens to the child? what then? So all this its the white man getting in the way is - so old. Parents no matter what race or what year will need to take care of their own childrend and if they cant or unable to - then apparently social services needs to step in.

So grandma's not good enough, or uncle, or aunties, cousins, friends. I'm not saying that there are not good foster families out there, and yes, all those points you brought up are exactly some issues that native children deal with everyday, and thanks to Him who created us that there are those families who truly love our children, BUT... what do you do so as to not indoctrinate our children (not at all meaning to be rude) with white custom and ways, how do you nurture his/her culture, heritage and social responsibilities. Who in your system makes sure he/she is given ceremony for cleansing and healing from these "deplorable" life settings?

The great white hope saying is not hold, when it is a continual practice of social services to remove children from homes that ARE NOT "UNFIT", "ABUSIVE" OR "NEGLIGENT" yet we see on almost a daily basis, someones child/children being removed, most of the time it is because white society does not understand cultural differences, what you all think is unacceptable is more than acceptable in native life. Not that we settle for less, or expect less, that is the attitude we feel every time we are paraded before the masses as those poor Indians. So the system comes in, swoops them up and wisks them off to a foster family. Mostly who are white, why not a black family who probably have closer values to us than whites, (not being prejudice here, just the truth). is it because to the system blacks arn't much better than we are?

If you have Native children adopted or fostered, and you are taking care of them Thanks! But you also need to understand that if you do not cultivate his/her native culture and heritage appropriately and respectfully, you have done nothing more than the old saying of "Kill the Indian save the man."