Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

i need to know where to post these subjects

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • i need to know where to post these subjects

    Hi

    Let me introduce me shortly

    I'm a european born and living in the, so to say, "old continent"

    at first

    i'm 60, ...when i was 18 i had a vision, (very disturbing experience for a western mind)...i'd like to know where you might suggest me to post to have feedbacks for such experiences

    at second

    i'd like to suggest a debate about tolerances you natives might have developed in the consumption of sacred plants, (assimilated in western culture as "hallucinogenic drugs",) similarily to the toxicologic tolerance europeans and africans have developed in consuming alcohol

    i just underline that apart of cannabinoid products 30 years ago by now, i never consumed one of these hallucinogenic drugs (or assimilated, my culture as you know doesn't concieve a sacred use of them)

    Sincerely yours

    Alexandre Borcic
    Last edited by Alexandre Borcic; 04-05-2020, 04:16 AM.

  • #2
    Alexandre, you may not realize it, but you are making some very broad generalizations in your post, and doing some stereotyping, also.

    Indian Nations are like Europe-there are many nations, each with their own language and beliefs. As far as feedback on your vision, you would get many variations membership here varies. Cheyenne will give different feedback than Apache will, and so on.

    As for hallucinogenic drugs, that's where the stereotyping is coming in. Again, many beliefs, many practices, but it is not the norm to use drugs like that. Native Americans have some of the highest rates of addiction of any ethnic group.
    Take nothing for granted. Life can change irrevocably in a heartbeat.

    I will not feed the troll-well, I will try.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well ...please, accept my apologise, let just say that apart from western africa, i never went away from europe at any moments of my life, so these mistakes might be very likely unavoidable,i hope it might change with the time...

      "Native Americans have some of the highest rates of addiction of any ethnic group."

      ...that's too bad, but i'm convinced it the case of has absolutely nothing to do with those included with your numerous sacred practice, but only the recreative use of drugs, including alcohol, that induce addictions

      About the vision i had, let say that i had an early feedback when Sky Hawk from the Lakota Nation (sorry,...correct me if needed )that listen to me and has been very surprised when he realized i told him the truth, as far as i could judge, more at things that shown through than from what i said...

      let say also that seven years later, i've been categorized as schizoid man and from that date living with an invalid rent,...but i'm still persuaded this is a culture bounded perception, western world usually consider that such visions without object (in frensh "perception sans objets") are ONLY a symptom of a pathology

      i had also many feedbacks from western african cultures, if you don't mind i'll tell you what when on...western africa is my only serious experience of a different vision of life and cosmogony, than mine

      So please tell me frankly, if you think i'd better not insist in posting in your forums, i'll understand
      ,
      ...against my heart and self-esteem ...but don't worry, i'll understand !

      Peace

      Alex

      Comment


      • #4
        You might get info on the two branches of the native american church. Their use is not recreational but worshipful.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ches View Post
          You might get info on the two branches of the native american church. Their use is not recreational but worshipful.
          Please refrain from commenting on things you know nothing about......please !
          I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


          They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

          There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

          Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
          It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


          sigpic


          There's a chance you might not like me ,

          but there's a bigger

          chance I won't care

          Comment


          • #6
            To the O.P. , there are a few subjects that are off limits in this forum ! It creates hard feelings and much discourse when they get discussed.One is our over 500 different tribes belief systems. Some would say religions ! Another is our personal beliefs sometimes generalized as cultural beliefs. Either of these subjects will quickly get out of hand ! Then add in a few things that are never discussed in public and especially to non-natives , then you can see how it could get ugly fast. There are other forums out there that are geared more to what you are seeking.Thanks
            I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


            They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

            There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

            Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
            It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


            sigpic


            There's a chance you might not like me ,

            but there's a bigger

            chance I won't care

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wardancer View Post
              There are other forums out there that are geared more to what you are seeking.Thanks
              yes you're right, very likely better so...

              Would you please, if possible, give me links to these forums you're talking about, then be sure that i won't bother you anymore

              Peace

              Alex

              Comment


              • #8
                I am sorry. War Dancer. I apologize. I am an idiot.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Alexandre Borcic View Post
                  yes you're right, very likely better so...

                  Would you please, if possible, give me links to these forums you're talking about, then be sure that i won't bother you anymore

                  Peace

                  Alex
                  As I don't associate in those types of forums , I can't help you. Sorry
                  Someone on here may , but I wouldn't count on it !
                  I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


                  They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

                  There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

                  Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
                  It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


                  sigpic


                  There's a chance you might not like me ,

                  but there's a bigger

                  chance I won't care

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ches View Post
                    I am sorry. War Dancer. I apologize. I am an idiot.
                    I don't think of you as an idiot. I think you are ignorant when it comes to native issues.
                    I think it's good that you are trying to reconnect and learn your tribe's language. That's a start But throwing out the occasional Shawnee word in an English sentence is just retarded ! Anyone that doesn't speak or write Shawnee has no clue what you're saying and probably don't care. I could start spouting off some Cheyenne words , but 1. You wouldn't understand them and 2. You couldn't pronounce them correctly. Then , even if you put the definition out there , if you miss pronounce it then it's not the same meaning !
                    I know you are an "older" but I don't believe for a minute , that when it comes to native culture , that you are an "Elder".
                    I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !


                    They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

                    There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

                    Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
                    It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


                    sigpic


                    There's a chance you might not like me ,

                    but there's a bigger

                    chance I won't care

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wardancer View Post
                      As I don't associate in those types of forums , I can't help you. Sorry
                      Someone on here may , but I wouldn't count on it !
                      never mind

                      thanks for your cordiality whatsoever...

                      peace

                      Alex

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Alexandre Borcic View Post
                        Hi

                        Let me introduce me shortly

                        I'm a european born and living in the, so to say, "old continent"

                        at first

                        i'm 60, ...when i was 18 i had a vision, (very disturbing experience for a western mind)...i'd like to know where you might suggest me to post to have feedbacks for such experiences

                        at second

                        i'd like to suggest a debate about tolerances you natives might have developed in the consumption of sacred plants, (assimilated in western culture as "hallucinogenic drugs",) similarily to the toxicologic tolerance europeans and africans have developed in consuming alcohol

                        i just underline that apart of cannabinoid products 30 years ago by now, i never consumed one of these hallucinogenic drugs (or assimilated, my culture as you know doesn't concieve a sacred use of them)

                        Sincerely yours

                        Alexandre Borcic
                        You must have had a european vision. The only part european to have a vision was Ray Levoi and that was almost 30 years ago.


                        Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


                        "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

                        Mr. Rossie Freeman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Joe's Dad View Post
                          You must have had a european vision. The only part european to have a vision was Ray Levoi and that was almost 30 years ago.
                          well let just say that i was 18 ears old when it happened in 1977, now i'm 60 years old ...but never mind !

                          if you ever think it can make sense i can try to describe what i saw, what happened around and what are my own extrapolation about this experience ?

                          As you wish, i really don't want to impose myself one way or another ...

                          Peace

                          Alex

                          P.S. I saw the movie "thunderheat" from Michael Apted...So this means that Ray Levoi and his visions related in the movie were real ? ...perhaps romanced because it's a hollywood movie, ...but real ?
                          Last edited by Alexandre Borcic; 04-19-2020, 04:10 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Mr Borcic, you need to understand about Indian humor. There is a little gentle teasing going on.


                            I was going to sit on my hands but I can't seem to stay seated. So, here I go again. (Regulars pardon the cut and paste job from OLChemist's stock answers.)

                            First, a little background to help understand the sarcasm and hostility that tends to erupt over these types of inquiries: Modern Native people are the survivors of the end of the world. For 500+ years, Native ways have been attacked, suppressed, punished and damn near erased. Land, language, culture and lives were lost. The survivors buried 50-90% of their tribes. Now, their children are fighting to preserve the remnants, battling the culture vultures who steal pieces of Native religions and lifeways, twist them into grotesque shapes, then sell the battered fragments to make themselves rich. So, not surprisingly many of Native people are weary and sometimes less than patient.

                            Native intellectual and spiritual traditions do not have their roots in the same soil as those of Europe. The European understandings of intellectual property and cultural patrimony are very different from those of all the Native peoples I know. Our peoples have different modes of sharing and transmission of knowledge. There is some knowledge that cannot be shared with the outsider or the uninitiated without physical and metaphysical consequences. You don't trifle with the sacred or even speak too casually about these things.

                            Please understand Native spiritual ways have long and deep roots. They are woven into the ethos of our peoples and their traditional land base. They are almost always linked to language and kin. It is nearly impossible to understand these ways, without understanding the language. The symbolic content is intimately intertwined with ethos. Thus, when Hollyweird and the dominant culture try to interpret (or depict) the vision experience, they frame it within their framework, including a bias toward confounding spiritual contact and communication with schizophrenic or drug induced hallucinations.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              To OLChemist and the othe administrator that had the kindness to answer me :

                              First of all accept my apologize being so late to answer you on this peculiar topic, let say also that I appreciate, in the contrary of what being told me, the courtesy you've shown in your answers

                              About "a bias toward confounding spiritual contact and communication with schizophrenic or drug induced hallucinations"

                              You may be right, but I cannot reduce my experience to the expression of a mental deceases or induced toxicology because some aspects of their content were too relevant or realistic to be reduced as the only expression of a pathology or another,

                              yes I was consuming marijuana, …but never did consume anything stronger in my entire life !

                              This event happened when I was just 18 (in June 1977 !!!) , on a bridge right over the junction of two big rivers in the town of Geneva in Switzerland were I live

                              These rivers BTW called «*le rhône*» and «*l’ arve*», the first one being the exit of a local lake (Lac Léman) the other coming-out of the mountains, and having during all year very cold waters

                              Let just say again that many aspects of what I saw made sense to me only in retrospect,

                              At about 11h00 in the evening, after watching the light of a cigarette thrown in the night from the middle of a bridge my eyes stood focalized 30 meters below on the water’s surface when I suddenly had a shock and turned my eyes in front of me …

                              I saw the shadow of a man coming in my direction through the bridge as he was agitatedly walking to my direction

                              Then, when he went progressively closer to me, he seemed to me as being in conflict with his own imagination, I’d say like tormented by a fantasy he tried to refrain without success, so his face was bustled by numerous twitches before he took his arm on his eyes and dissapeared through the chest of somebody walking through the bridge right before me …

                              It lasted about 30 seconds

                              Many month later when I was, on another bridge of the town, watching distractedly during the day my own shadow on the water’s surface with the sun on my back, moving towards the transparent and tormented waters, I realize that it was very similar to what I saw a few month earlier during the night

                              Like my own shadow, my eyes being accurately focalized through the darkness, at the level of the waters, where the light of the cigarette disappeared when touching the waters, in my vision the shadow was like animated by the flooding waters …but this I realized it in retrospect, a few month later

                              Also what I interpreted as nervous twitches on my vision, I saw this many years later in real life, a same reaction of retaining an undesired fantasy, in a more edulcorate manner but totally similar

                              ...just in case, being talking about framework : this being a honest and as transparent as possible report of what I saw this night, you can sincerely trust me…
                              Last edited by Alexandre Borcic; 09-27-2020, 01:25 PM.

                              Comment

                              Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

                              widgetinstance 224 (Related Topics) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.

                              Trending

                              Collapse

                              There are no results that meet this criteria.

                              Sidebar Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X