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  • #16

    «*Mr Borcic, you need to understand about Indian humor. There is a little gentle teasing going on*»

    well, I should have supposed this, so thanks for your tolerance. I don’t bother too much because it should be predictable, and legitimate at a degree I’m afraid I’m still deeply unaware

    «*Modern Native people are the survivors of the end of the world.*»

    I see, this description just speaks for itself…

    For 500+ years, Native ways have been attacked, suppressed, punished and damn near erased. Land, language, culture and lives were lost. The survivors buried 50-90% of their tribes.

    …and this is none at the honor of my root culture, nothing to be proud of

    Now, their children are fighting to preserve the remnants, battling the culture vultures who steal pieces of Native religions and lifeways, twist them into grotesque shapes, then sell the battered fragments to make themselves rich.
    So, not surprisingly many of Native people are weary and sometimes less than patient*»

    Again totally legitimate,

    …so it is of my responsibility to prove the minimum of humility, honesty and probity, nothing that I expect to be assumed spontaneously about me, don’t worry : Even if I was the most sincere person in the world it’s obvious for me that you’ll need to stay mistrustful, just because I’m a white man, profiled by a culture that is directly responsible of the anihilation of yours …and you are not the only ones, I know it quite well, living part time in western Africa , I’ve observed how an invading culture has deleterious consequences towards local ones, things are changing slowly on that respect, but it’s still present and natives from black Africa are mostly unaware of their own cultural alienation
    For instance, criterias of education (or even beliefs) that are relevant for white people aren’t for any other natives of the world, so I think they need to africanise their scolarisation at all degree…but this being in digression to the topic, in the future I may come back with my experience of traditional Africa

    I’ll be back to answer point by point and in a detailed manner to your administrator OLChemist…but I’m afraid being a bit rusty, my English too, to give you a feedback at this level of intelligence

    Other post should follow,if you don't bother, and i hope you don't




    • #17
      Alex , we try to accept everyone at face value , first impressions you know. Even in group settings one will tease , with a joke or a comment and we all observe the reaction. That helps us decide the sincerity in which you come. The distrust will always be there because of our experience with outsiders , but that's also true among the different tribes as well !But with that said , if we didn't like you at all , we wouldn't even tease you ! Good luck in your quest !
      I believe blood quantums are the governments way to breed us out of existance !

      They say blood is thicker than water ! Now maple syrup is thicker than blood , so are pancakes more important than family ?

      There are "Elders" and there are "Olders". Being the second one doesn't make the first one true !

      Somebody is out there somewhere, thinking of you and the impact you made in their life.
      It's not me....I think you're an idiot !


      There's a chance you might not like me ,

      but there's a bigger

      chance I won't care


      • #18
        "But with that said , if we didn't like you at all , we wouldn't even tease you ! Good luck in your quest !"

        thank you ...

        "The distrust will always be there because of our experience with outsiders"

        Absolutely legitimate,...could be harsh to me at first but i can't blame you

        i might find something that have a real value of honesty to your criteria, but it's likely too early for that

        Let just say this

        I'm treated as nothing but a social case in my society

        ...and in the area of western africa i use to live a part of my life (Bobo-dioulasso, Burkina Faso) natives africans deplore that someone like me is nothing but "un sans-voix" in it's society

        I assume that behind the strong reserve you're showing to me, the accurate reflect that has been telling to me earlier :

        "There is some knowledge that cannot be shared with the outsider or the uninitiated without physical and metaphysical consequences. You don't trifle with the sacred or even speak too casually about these things." just thanks you for considering me and take the time to answer me to enlighten my mind, ...even sparsely !!!
        Last edited by Alexandre Borcic; 10-01-2020, 04:39 AM. Reason: to underline an answer that approve an important assertion


        • #19
          sorry, double post
          Last edited by Alexandre Borcic; 10-01-2020, 04:42 AM. Reason: double post to erase


          • #20
            If you don’t mind, Let me just talk of other aspects of my experience

            Without debating of life’s circonstances, I experienced the wind taking to me

            …as inanimated objects and nature around me were warning me, making me understanding words and assertions, before somebody would physically telling them to me

            Even in the worst moments moments of my life, during a supposedly pure schizophrenic, hallucinatory delirium, In an awaken nightmare I saw through TV a famous french commentator of the eighties (called Noelle Mamère, in 1983 more precisely) that seemed while watching me, to transmit his thoughts like «*don’t try to make-believe you’ve ever played until there*» (…In frensh «tu ne vas pas nous faire croire que tu n’as jamais joué jusque la» ...this in parallel with what he was indeed speaking in his commentary)

            …and this happened before a few days later when someone told me word for word, the same assertion towards me

            Just to be explicit they were talking about sex practices my society and even my relatives couldn’t admit I was unaware of them, and still making me a slinking a vicious war about it…. and it made decades before I realize WHY I didn’t understand what they were talking about, my mind being literally kept virgin of any kind of fantasy related to anal sex, so any allusion about it implying my imagination to complete the message stood mysterious
            And this reflects exactly what happened at these times and still happens: a society and even relatives, incredulous and rather hostile, disturbed and totally unable to admit my innocence ?

            Terrifying experience…

            So many decades later in Burkina Faso when a native from the Bwaba tribe,(called Yorossi Traore) told me he had in his possession a drug that makes you understand the language of the turtledove,…he hadded then something that made me trust him:

            «not that they suddenly begin to talk but that their coo are suddenly making sense and comes to your mind as self-consistent phrases»

            When the wind talks (…or if you allow me, somehow transmit foreign thoughts to your mind), it sound just turn itself into something intelligible,

            …this reveals a similar cognitive process

            Even what happened to me during severe psychotic decompensation, in this experience the will I had to see and feel what people have in their heart, has grown so intense in my senses that it has become intelligible, as if they tried to share directly their harsh incredulity to me,

            ...also a similar cognitive process after all

            I might very easily understand that schizoid assertion that would say about such experience that they have received telepathic messages from people on TV (…and at a certain degree in my heart that’s the way I’m thinking even if I’m reluctant to admit it to myself)

            In fact i needed to make an attempt though known elements of my culture, to try to give sense to the perceived phenomenon , at many aspects my experience cleary matches a psychotic experience, but

            1) isn’t schizophrenia (as well as some other mental diseases), culture-bounded syndromes in their way, related to the western world culture, so existing only inside a society in where both patient and healer are sharing the same belief ?

            As an example : the woman who has been my second wife was younger, suffering of a severe diseases called «*Djina Bana*» in his root cultures of subsaharan Africa (that means «*sickness of the Djinns*») this way before I marry her, I helped his father to pay and organise the rituals of his root culture, intended to know the intentions of the Djinns and then, depending their personnality throw them out, or keep and work with them if they aren’t badly intentioned, (so the patient become himself a healer), her case his father decided to chase them away because her daughter would have to cut the throat of chickens and sometimes bigger beast like goats or even cows in their rituals

            …you know, this is Africa !

            2) The medical concept of hallucination respond to some criterias

            a - first you see something that doesn’t exist (except for you),

            b - then you’re totally persuaded of the reality of what you see,

            c - and finally you see and live a completely erroneous experience

            …but as I told you, the content of my presumed delirium wasn’t such erroneous and unrelated to facts of usual life and
            worse than that : I’m not persuaded the medical team that oblige me to stood under neuroleptic treatment during years before I finally refused it weren’t aware of what they were predictably animated (you know : «*don’t try to make-believe, etc, etc…)

            Many things have been said today

            A big thank you for your tolerance, i just hope there is here matter of exchange, this being a lifetime experience, or almost !


            • #21
              Originally posted by Joe's Dad View Post

              You must have had a european vision. The only part european to have a vision was Ray Levoi and that was almost 30 years ago.

              ...hi to the ones that might read these pages, and sorry for the procrastinated answer, if ever

              someone here told me here that you would not even tease me if you didn't like me ...and to be honest i felt somehow this comment as if you would have said "please stay !" ...and now that i would have a bit more senses about the peculiar question, i can answer back with a minimum of relevance that, because it happened in 1977 it was nothing that hollyweird (as you said !!! ...don't realise how much it could be still insulting concepts to your root cultures) would have payed attention at these times, i think...

              not a Ray Levoy's one but perhaps even worse : it was a Carlos Castaneda's one !

              In the context it happened to me, i was unawarely involved into an extreme (?) political move, in where a group of left wing ("extrème-gauche" in frensh) intellectual where seeking what they define as "strength" in their ideology, they where deeply inspired by the first books of Carlos castaneda that has been published during these times, and the where sad that "Metropolitans Sorcerers doesn't exist" the only alternative the they supposed as possible was to find strengh to fight (they were into "extreme left" in sympathy with political groups like "Red Army Faction" (*) dangerous as current islamist groups ) and in this context they supposed ir was possible was to find strengh to fight toward the influence of appropriate music, myself was still too young to be aware of that (and read Castaneda's book only later)

              Let say that there was a will too seek power (that they called strengh) to fight against local establishment

              Ironically, i've been the one that had such vision, beside the fact that i wasn't asking for such experience at all at that peculiar moment, being still adolescent in the contrary of everyone around me

              Last edited by Alexandre Borcic; 10-23-2022, 12:17 PM.


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