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Moral Theology and the Bible

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sophie
    ummmm where do we start?

    Let's start w/ the "is abortion taking a life?" question...

    I think we were in agreement that Spirit = Life, that Life comes from the Creator (aka: Great Mystery, Great Spirit, God - whatever label we want to use), and that Spirit can not be destroyed.

    So far so good?
    1. Spirit = life
    2. Life comes from a creator
    3. Spirit cannot be destroyed

    For the sake of argument. Does the spirit begin at conception or are there pre-existing spirits in this debate?

    If there are pre-existing spirits, then I'll just go ahead and finish building this straw man.

    4. Our bodies are temporary shells for our for our eternal spirits.

    If these first four premises are true then abortion is not taking a "life" because that life (spirit) will eventually be "birthed" into a new body/shell. So our bodies/shells have no real intrinsic value. If this was a majority understanding there wouldn't be laws against murder (outside of the womb), rape, child molestation, sexual abuse and other things that may harm the body/shell.

    Everyone would say/think "Hopefully they'll have better luck in their next body/shell!"

    Is that an absurd conclusion?

    (Sophie--I wasn't assuming that you were going down that road. I'm just trying to knock out rabbit trails.)
    Last edited by Taushina; 05-28-2004, 01:58 PM.
    People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.
    BLAISE PASCAL

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Taushina
      1. Spirit = life
      2. Life comes from a creator
      3. Spirit cannot be destroyed

      For the sake of argument. Does the spirit begin at conception or are there pre-existing spirits in this debate?

      If there are pre-existing spirits, then I'll just go ahead and finish building this straw man.

      4. Our bodies are temporary shells for our for our eternal spirits.

      If these first four premises are true then abortion is not taking a "life" because that life (spirit) will eventually be "birthed" into a new body/shell. So our bodies/shells have no real intrinsic value. If this was a majority understanding there wouldn't be laws against murder (outside of the womb), rape, child molestation, sexual abuse and other things that may harm the body/shell.

      Everyone would say/think "Hopefully they'll have better luck in their next body/shell!"

      Is that an absurd conclusion?
      I don't think she meant re-incarnation.......

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Singing Eagle
        I don't think she meant re-incarnation.......
        I know, thats why I said I was going to knock down that straw man before we went down that rabbit trail. Thank you though!
        People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.
        BLAISE PASCAL

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Taushina
          I know, thats why I said I was going to knock down that straw man before we went down that rabbit trail. Thank you though!
          Well you didn't say that in the original post but added it after my comment - seems to me you are like a leaf in the wind and go where-ever the wind blows..............I'm beginning to think you just like to read your own writing - oh well - whatever...........

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Singing Eagle
            Well you didn't say that in the original post but added it after my comment - seems to me you are like a leaf in the wind and go where-ever the wind blows..............I'm beginning to think you just like to read your own writing - oh well - whatever...........
            Okay? Did you read the "P.S." I wrote to Sophie. I wrote that to Sophie before I read your post. Do you hate me?
            People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.
            BLAISE PASCAL

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Taushina
              Okay? Did you read the "P.S." I wrote to Sophie. I wrote that to Sophie before I read your post. Do you hate me?
              Um - no you didn't because it would have shown up in the space where I quoted your post...............you obviously would rather be right then open-minded so carry on with your preaching - oh and I don't hate anyone.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Singing Eagle
                Um - no you didn't because it would have shown up in the space where I quoted your post...............you obviously would rather be right then open-minded so carry on with your preaching - oh and I don't hate anyone.
                Oh okay. I think I was editing my post to Sophie while you were replying to me. Thats my conclusion. Good day ma'am! :)
                People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.
                BLAISE PASCAL

                Comment


                • #23
                  yea this thread was simply created so Taushina could express her views on abortion according to her fascist christianity beliefs and her ability to cut and paste from dictionary.com. ;) ... so um... i think that should have been a warning at the beginning of her thread.
                  The only time its too late to start dancing is when you're dead.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by superndngyrl
                    yea this thread was simply created so Taushina could express her views on abortion according to her fascist christianity beliefs and her ability to cut and paste from dictionary.com. ;) ... so um... i think that should have been a warning at the beginning of her thread.
                    thanks super - let's get outta here before they start up again - k? I'll buy you a coffee at Red's......

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Two very mature, intelligent and lovely Native women! :) Thank you for gracing me with your presence! I am truly honored! (Not being sarcastic either, I mean it) You two are both very intelligent and beautiful! Well I assume beautiful, since you are both Native. :) I enjoy your comments.
                      People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.
                      BLAISE PASCAL

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Taushina
                        OMG JENN!! I MISSED you so much! HOw have you been? I don't have AOL anymore. My new e-mail is [email protected] HIT ME UP GIRL! You have made my day! GUESS WHAT? I'm going to BUffalo, NY next summer for the NAIG! Will you be there? Are you still in NY? I have so much to say! AND THis is way OFF TOPIC. I've missed you! E-mail me okay? Whats your #? I can call you up! I'm so excited! I'm gonna cry...


                        lol ohkays!! i'mma email u today!! i misshed u too'z!!
                        "would u like to lick the frybread greaze off of my lippz??"

                        check out - http://www.iGive.com/porcupineclinic

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by wannabeUrNo1Snag
                          lol ohkays!! i'mma email u today!! i misshed u too'z!!
                          Okie dokie, I'll be EAGERLY awaiting your e-mail. *lol* :39:
                          People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.
                          BLAISE PASCAL

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Singing Eagle
                            I don't think she meant re-incarnation.......
                            :Thumbs

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by CandaePrincess
                              That's a terrible definition of moral.

                              Just saying that you could find a way better definition. Sounds like someone's own definition of moral who is trying to explain it but doesn't live it.....ya know what I mean???
                              :clap: Yep, the definition *is* terrible. Besides, even if they *do* live it, who's to say that there's a consistent definition of what's good/bad, right/wrong for everybody?

                              :wall: Relativism
                              Last edited by Sophie; 05-28-2004, 05:21 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Taushina
                                1. Spirit = life
                                2. Life comes from a creator
                                3. Spirit cannot be destroyed

                                For the sake of argument. Does the spirit begin at conception or are there pre-existing spirits in this debate?

                                If there are pre-existing spirits, then I'll just go ahead and finish building this straw man.

                                4. Our bodies are temporary shells for our for our eternal spirits.

                                If these first four premises are true then abortion is not taking a "life" because that life (spirit) will eventually be "birthed" into a new body/shell. So our bodies/shells have no real intrinsic value. If this was a majority understanding there wouldn't be laws against murder (outside of the womb), rape, child molestation, sexual abuse and other things that may harm the body/shell.

                                Everyone would say/think "Hopefully they'll have better luck in their next body/shell!"

                                Is that an absurd conclusion?

                                (Sophie--I wasn't assuming that you were going down that road. I'm just trying to knock out rabbit trails.)
                                My original thought was going from the spirit at conception level and that on the spirit's level, abortion would be similar to miscarriage - the spirit just never made it all the way into the world. One of my very best friends from childhood had 3 miscarriages before bringing a pregnancy to term... the way she ended up thinkin' about it was that her babies are up in heaven and someday she'll get the chance to see them.

                                Comment

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