"Awnold" and the Indians

[middle of the sky]

I was watching the news this morning and saw on the ticker tape thing on the bottom, the words that streams along the bottom of the screen, something about Arnold Scwarthenegger (sp?) "going too far" and saying that indian casinos are "ripping us off". I tried to find something on the internet about it but couldn't find the quote. Anyone hear about this? LOL. He's such an idiot.

[River Spirit]

As a resident of the State of California, I take issue with your comment. Arnold Schwarzenegger has done alot for this state in the short time he's been in office. He's brought many groups to the bargaining table, including our tribes, when others didn't give them the time of day. Arnold is currently under attack because he's done something no other sitting Governor (or former) has done. He's come out publicly on TV to tell the voters that proponents of Prop 68 and 70--both touted to be 'give California their fair share' propositions--have private interests and ulterior motive, which they do. Any resident of this State should read the Voter's pamphlet they got in the mail and take a look at who is sponsoring the Proposition, the fiscal impact of the Proposition and then read the rebuttle (which is always posted). Then they can go to the polls. Uneducated voters have screwed over many an election in this country primarily due to jumping on a particular bandwagon without knowing the facts. But, then , you aren't a US citizen, California resident or registered voter so I wouldn't expect you to be any different. Arnold is not an idiot. He knows how to get things done.

[middle of the sky]

undefinedso do you know the quote? i mean if its true that he said that? i think its incredible....i mean who rips off who here?

[Joe G]

Whoa!!!! Easy!!!!!

[QUOTE=Spirit of Seattle]" But, then , you aren't a US citizen, California resident" ( or registered voter) so I wouldn't expect you to be any different"

Honestly, there are some times when I think that not being one of the first two (US citizen, or California resident) , may be points in someones' favor! Educated voters seem to screw up their share as well!
M.O.T.S. seems like a well read, intelligent gal, and I think she'd be capable of discerning the truth, when all the facts are made available and would come to the correct conclusions.
My two cents...unsolicited...and worth every penny!
C

[River Spirit]

I have never seen a direct quote or heard Arnold Schwarzenegger in an interview say what he is purported to have said here. And, I live in the State capital of Sacramento so I get bombarded by the political machine every day. Someone living in CA would not be expected to have a feel for politics in Michigan any more than someone in New York orOntario would have a feel for California politics--neither party gets first person exposure to the publicity and media machines that control the commercials, news articles, etc., that the residents of that particular area are bombarded with. Nor do they receive the campaign material that, at least in CA, is required to give the pro view and the con view in the voters pamphlet and anyone who is the author of a proposition has to publicly state so. It is the law. That is why I said what I did. I am a US citizen, I don't know squat about Canadian, New York, or Michigan politics. If there is a Canuck, someone from the Big Apple and a denizen of Detroit that thinks they have a better grasp of California politics than a Californian, I'd sure like to meet them.

[middle of the sky]

well it was on canadian tv... AND.. awnold is also trying to stop americans in the tv/movie industry from coming up here to work...that's all i know...i don't pretend to be a know it all....and i'm entitled to my opinion and i still think he's an idiot. lol thx C.

[River Spirit]

well it was on canadian tv... AND.. awnold is also trying to stop americans in the tv/movie industry from coming up here to work...that's all i know...i don't pretend to be a know it all....and i'm entitled to my opinion and i still think he's an idiot. lol thx C.

yes, you are entitled to your opinion. we both are.

as for trying to keep the Hollywood tv/movie industry in California (or the US for that matter) there is a very rational economic reason for that. why should we hand over jobs to Canadian citizens when there are US citizens that need work, need to feed their kids and pay their bills? if all the revenue goes out of the country, a country is piss poor. that said I don't think Hollywood would go to BC or Toronto or anywhere else if the cost of doing business down here wasn't so expensive, so it is up to our state and federal governments to improve the business climate and give business an incentive to stay there, or they will go north (as they have in the past).

[pow wow guest]

Arnold

The thread started out about Arnold and casinos now we are into politics, we up here in Canada know there is starting to be alot of American protectionism, first the softwood lumber tariffs, then the movie industry thing, now they say we subsidize our hog industry so now the States want tariffs on that. The World Trade Orginization has already ruled that we do not subsidize our soft wood lumber and the States will still not agree, yet they are the ones that pushed us into the NAFTA agreement. I think this is all boiling down to the fact that the US economy under Bush is really taking a hit, in His debate the other night Bush was saying that even though there is a shotage of flu vacinne that the US can get the vacinne from Canada, well tax our lumber, tax our hogs, restrict beef imports, stop movie making, buy our water, power and natural gas cheap, and then We should be nice and give up our flu vacinne, go figure.

[River Spirit]

The thread started out about Arnold and casinos now we are into politics, we up here in Canada know there is starting to be alot of American protectionism, first the softwood lumber tariffs, then the movie industry thing, now they say we subsidize our hog industry so now the States want tariffs on that. The World Trade Orginization has already ruled that we do not subsidize our soft wood lumber and the States will still not agree, yet they are the ones that pushed us into the NAFTA agreement. I think this is all boiling down to the fact that the US economy under Bush is really taking a hit, in His debate the other night Bush was saying that even though there is a shotage of flu vacinne that the US can get the vacinne from Canada, well tax our lumber, tax our hogs, restrict beef imports, stop movie making, buy our water, power and natural gas cheap, and then We should be nice and give up our flu vacinne, go figure.

A perfect example of what is wrong with politics. Why should Canada give up its precious vaccine? If the US would get its 's' together; not over-regulate or under-regulate but properly regulate we wouldn't be in this fix. Why were we buying vaccine from the UK anyway? It's nuts!

In addition to the Props about gambling and casinos there is Prop 72 the referendum requiring employers to pay at least 80% of employee health insurance or pay the State to do the job for them. I always hate it when we give power to the government...they haven't exactly shown their trustworthiness or fiduciary responsibility themselves--why give them our money for healthcare? Anyway, in 2006 businesses with 200 or more employees would have to provide health insurance for employees. In 2007 employers with 50 to 199 employees. Also, any employee working more than 100 hours per month for the same employer or 3 months would qualify for health insurance. There is also a cap of 20 percent for the employee paid portion of healthcare. Supporters SAY: it would provide health care for 1.1 million workers and their children while reducing the financial burden onhospital ERs and taxpayers. Proponents SAY: Mandating coverage without actually controlling costs will increase health care costs and create a huge bureaucracy to run the state purchasing program. And, to reduce costs, businesses will possibly leave the State or lay off workers who could end up unemployed or uninsured. So, who wins?

[sf guy]

arnold I can't believe he the gov. of cali.

I'm a Pomo Indian from northern cali(River Rock) casino we have, and Arnold is making deals with a handfull less than 10, and he wants us native indians to pay a higher percentage of tax. Example river rock has revs of 100 million a year, and a business in non-native land has the same revunue Arnold wants casino tribes to pay more tax than companies that generate the same.I think we paid are fair share with the lives of ancestors, language, land.In califronia all casino tribes share a portion of profits with tribes that don't have casinos.This gov. is a actor and nothing more and its a trip cause I here sometimes from natives and non-natives(I live in sf-liberal).They are hating on us cali indians, People are all on is tip cause his an actor, come on his dad was a card carry nazi.

[Blackbear]

California Governor Fights Indian Casino Expansion
Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:03 AM ET
Reuters

By Adam Tanner

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has a warning for state voters: "The Indians are ripping us off."

Schwarzenegger has taken up the line to convince them to reject a tribe-backed initiative on the Nov. 2 ballot that would allow rapid expansion of American Indian casinos in the nation's most populous state and derail the governor's own effort to manage casino growth.

Some critics say the governor is going too far with his campaign -- tapping a deep vein of hostility that dates back to the settlers' conquest of the U.S. West.

"His statement touches on racism," said Virgil Moorehead, chairman of the Big Lagoon Rancheria tribe in northern California. "It's so uneducated and so far-fetched to say that we are ripping off the state."

Added Victor Rocha, an American Indian who edits a Web site related to casino gambling: "I don't think it is racist but it sure fans the flames of racism by going and saying that and just having that type of hatred of Native Americans."

American Indian casinos have expanded dramatically across the United States since the late 1980s following court rulings and new laws.

The expansion helped some tribes rise from poverty, but it also triggered a backlash. Schwarzenegger made casino payments to the state an issue in his run for governor last year, saying tribes were not paying their fair share.

"There always has been resentment of any special thing that the Indians seemed to have, whether it was their land or whether it was business concessions," said Robert Berkhofer, author of a 1978 book on American Indians. "In California there is lots of residual racial antipathy."

Schwarzenegger spokesman Vince Sollitto said the governor's comments about Indians "ripping us off" referred to tribes that back Proposition 70, which would allow the expansion of casinos in return for payments on par with state corporate taxes.

Schwarzenegger earlier this year struck a deal with five tribes to guarantee payments by Indians, who have a monopoly on slot machines. The ballot measure would nullify that deal and set the payments at the corporate rate of 8.84 percent.

It also would allow tribes to sign contracts with the state to operate as many slot machines as they want on their land and introduce roulette and craps, both of which are now banned in California.

UNEVEN PROSPERITY

Experts say the debate overlooks the fact that many tribes have no casinos.

"The basic thing that Indian gaming has done is raise the salience of some very wealthy tribes at the expense of an accurate picture of what's going on in Indian country," said Jonathan Taylor, a research fellow at the Harvard Project on American Indian Economic Development.

Nearly half of the roughly 500,000 self-described Native Americans living on reservations did not have casino gambling, according to the 2000 census, he said.

The National Indian Gaming Commission, a federal regulatory agency, says 330 Indian casinos nationwide brought in $16.7 billion in 2003, up about $2 billion each year since 2000.

Schwarzenegger is seeking to negotiate deals with tribes to pay the state more of what casinos make -- perhaps 15 to 25 percent, he said this week. But he has not explained how he reached those figures or why the casinos should pay more than the standard corporate tax.

"What we don't want to do is make it unfair where they grab the billions and billions of dollars from the people of California without paying anything," he told KGO radio in San Francisco.

States have limited influence over tribes, which have a sovereign status roughly the same as the states. That raises tensions that go deep in U.S. history.

"There is this old idea that Indians have wealth and that they have too much of it and we ought to determine how much they get," said Taylor.

[middle of the sky]

Thx Blackbear thats the thing i was talking about....

[River Spirit]

"Schwarzenegger spokesman Vince Sollitto said the governor's comments about Indians "ripping us off" referred to tribes that back Proposition 70, which would allow the expansion of casinos in return for payments on par with state corporate taxes. "

It would help if you'd give Arnold's complete quote in the context it was made, otherwise you are talking apples and oranges. Prop 70 would destroy the agreements that Schwarzenegger already has in place with some tribes, agreements that if you read them, have protections for both sides. There are no auditing provisions in prop 70 making it impossible for the state to determine if tribes were even paying the percentage this proposition dictates. Local governments and consumers would have no say about where a casino was placed, to mention one issue. You have to remember, California is by and large a state without reservations. Most tribes have been displaced. The 'rancherias', as they are called are few and far between and in some places a so-called tribe is only 11 persons; and some like the 'United Cherokee' are not even federally recognized. At some point, we have to quit trotting out the old tear jerker 'you done me wrong, so pay up' and earn our way like the rest. We are talking business; and a complicated business at that. Behind alot of these Cali NDN casinos, as elsewhere, are names like Bally, Steve Wynne, Trump, etc., so don't be fooled into thinking we are being taken advantage of, again. Frankly, I'd rather make my own way in this world instead of having it handed to me out of sympathy or guilt.

[middle of the sky]

uh...that's why i was asking if anyone if they knew the quote?

and i think the government owes us quite a lot, like north america, central america and south america and all the resources that go with it....and compensation for genocide...things like that...

[makesHERlulu]

I read the quote on indian dot com. When I read the article there I thought the nerve a "kraut" would say Indians are rippin Cali's off.

I'm glad I am not livin in Cali. Maybe some of teh things he has done to date are good, but to say something like that....feeergitaboutit!