In Need of some HELP

[TwoCats]

I agree with the previous post. There are so many churches out there; it is perfectly alright to shop around and find one that accepts you for what you are-part Iroquois. I found in my life that even in one faith (my experience was with Catholic, Lutheran and Methodist) the attitude varies from congregation to congregation. Why? The Pastor has alot to do with it. You can go to one that has an 'old school' Pastor who is still hooked into the 'God is to be feared' mentality and has selective amnesia about John 14:2-3: "In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." Progressive Christians interpret this as saying there is no one religion that is right and the others wrong. Churches also reflect the community in them. Some congregations are content to be told what to believe, placing all their trust in a church leader; others want to participate and exercise the mind God gave them and decide for themselves. The Da Vinci Code comes to mind with this latter. Church leaders of every denomination are out there thumping their Bibles telling folks not to see the movie, etc. Some folks say that's enough for them and will never see the movie. Others will go, and decide for themselves whether it is for the entertainment value or whether there really is some truth buried in the plot somewhere. So, don't let one denomination tell you that honoring your Native ancestry is a sin. They should be encouraging your self-discovery; because, in the end, we are left with ourselves.

[WhoMe]

Scootin,

If you don't agree with what your church believes... There is another church and another church and ANOTHER church -down the road.

Find a church where you feel comfortable.

There is no use being the martyr and stickin' to a church where you don't feel good, when you leave.

[Ndnsoldierboy]

50cal you were already there its getting hot in Hell now, oops! I mean Iraq.

[50cal]

This one is easy - you're part Indian so you're going straight to Hell.

LMFAO!!! Aren't we all???? LOL!!!

[Zorro]

there are denominations of christianity who ARE polytheistic in beliefs and have LOTS of unscriptural beliefs

I believe that's known as "Roman Catholicism"

[One Hot Mama]

There are several good sources you can get thru WICONI, International(www.wiconi.com). One is by Dr Adrian Jacobs(Cayuga), called Aboriginal Christianity: The Way it was Meant to BE. There's One Church, Many Tribes by Richard Twiss. There's Mixed Blood, Not Mixed Up, by Randy Woodley. There's also the Healing the Land series by Suuqiina. These might be of help to you in tapdancing thru the minefield without blowing your foot off.

The only way to get to know Native people is to be among us. There's no book that can help you do this. The main things to remember:

1. be respectful-listen long, speak little, and speak softly.

2. wait until a pause or until others have stopped speaking
before asking a question, and keep it modest, maybe
asking the person next to you instead of shouting it out
for all to hear.

3. Dont try to act like you know anything, you don't. Be
humble, be real. That will get you alot futher among NDN's
than being a know-it-all will, and you're alot more likely to
get your questions answered.

4. Be prepared for some hostility and suspicion...if you know
anything about history since 1492, this needs no
explanation. If you are historically ignorant, well, let's just
say we've got alot of unresolved issues from being lied to,
cheated, enslaved, exploitated, exterminated, bullied,
belittled, bloodied, bruised, raped, robbed, and humiliated
over and over and over again for the past 513 yrs. Pardon
us if we come across like pissed off grizzly bears with burrs
up our a$$es, but our patience and open hospitality have
gotten a bit frayed.

5. It will take a LONG time to build relationships, especially for
lost birds and those who aren't sure where they belong.
Plan on sticking around for several years to build those
relationships and learn the things you want and need to
learn. Again, be humble, truthful, as good-natured as
possible, and be generous with yourself. We like folks who
share.

6. NDN's are very subtle. Your will have to learn how to
watch and listen for the little things. You will offend
somebody along the way, so learn how to quickly
apologize, accept those ruffled feathers, and do what you
can to assuage the honor of the person(s) you offended.
This too can take awhile, so be patient. When folks see
you have a good heart and mean well, and that you DO
learn from your mistakes, they'll cut you more slack in the
future. Try not to abuse that favor, tho...the welcome
can wear out quickly.

There are many different cultures among us, so there's alot to learn, but once you get the hang of it, you'll see there are some things which are sort of universal amongst NDN's. I won't spoil the fun of discovery by going into them, but let's say you'll be surprised at how basic they are.

Good luck on your search. Oh and as a Native follwer of Creator-Son, I found it alot easier to turn my back on churchianity and walk in faith with my Creator as a Native person. I quit doing church because I got tired of trying to convince people who refused to learn that there is NOTHING pagan about my people's traditional beliefs, and we knew of Creator's Son long before white folks got over here.

My father's Scottish ancestors were polytheists whose traditional practices included human sacrifice, ritualistic cannibalism, casting charms and hexes on each other, and sexual perversion in the guise of fertility rites(orgies). Yet no one says anything about how "pagan" Scottish culture and traditional symbols, music and musical instruments(yeah, those bagpipes too), dances, and regalia(tartans, kilts, etc) are and how they should be put aside and repented of. So if they don't do that for Scottish, Irish, Welsh, British, German, Scandinavian, and all those other pagan-origin cultures of Europe, why should I repent of mine, when we have always know who God is and have not forgotten Him? BTW, everytime I bring THAT argument up with my white "brothers" in the Body of Christ, the subject gets changed.

Dohi.

[GRANDSON OF ZEELA]

an Iroquois in VA

Friend, If you are going to be a Christian you had better learn how to fight with words. Preferrebly words of wisdom, Solomon wrote a book called Proverbs, unfortunatley he dosn't
address the issues you are dealing with. I too am a Christian and the best advice I can give to you is to find a Church preferrably a Church of God which is a Pentacostal church, or a Messianic Jewish Congregation. Which both churches are culturely sensitive churches. If you have any problems with these churches please e-mail me.
[email protected]

[Usdigvhi]

I am recently saved and have come to know Jesus Christ and have Him in my heart and I am thankful for that, but I have also been researching my family tree and have found that I am of the Iroquois Nation, I have known this for about 10 years now and I am proud of that and of my heritage. I have people at my church telling me that there is full of alot of idolism and things that are not of God and from the way it was said to me was full of stereotyping from things they may have seen in movies. If someone could please suggest some good literature it would be greatly appreciated. I hope that this post does not offend anyone because this was not my intention.

ive been down that road......lettme tell ya they're full of crap. first you need to evaluate what church you're goin to...make sure it doesnt have cultic tendencys...cuz the ones ive had the most problems with later turned out to be cults..and cults arent part of christianity.

heres the main deal. Christianity today as a whole isnt what its meant to be. ALL native american spirituality is misunderstood because all dumb white people have labeled us to be polytheistic idol worshipers...and its just not true. the fact of the matter is...God and Creator are the same person and if any christian tells you different well they're wrong. just because we believe everything has a spirit doesnt mean that we believe this spirit to be a god. Christianity is all about poking whats wrong with other religions when there are denominations of christianity who ARE polytheistic in beliefs and have LOTS of unscriptural beliefs HOWEVER i have not been able to find any native american beliefs to be clearly unscriptural. in fact..MUCH of it works in correlation with scripture

ive done tons and tons of research and have tons and tons of websites so if you're interested in getting any of it or just want to talk just drop me a PM or an email at [email protected]. I consider myself both a christian and a cherokee with cherokee beliefs and i dont consider that to be wrong or contradictory. ive been down the road you're on and its not a fun one. you'll find most christian people are the LEAST accepting people in the world and many of them are just racist.

i could go on and on but if you're interested in talkin just let me know

[AngelFeather]

I agree with part of what BM said - I say you need not worry about what they say - for if as the bible says "we are all God's children" - then therefore he created the ways of all of our tribes and they are of him and should be supported.

I am so over worrying about whether or not mainstream religions accept me and my belief in traditional ways! The church system has made too many mistakes and done too much damage to our people (and others) all in the name of god! I think it's disgusting how they carry on about their way being the only way - it's all brainwashing and propaganda!

Your way is the right way for you - do what's in your heart and stand your ground!

I have struggled with Man made religion...fer the past few years... i grew up very religiously and went to church most of my life and your'e absolutely right in what you say...

Isnt religion suppose to help you, make you feel good about yourself and the things around you? Well... these mand made religions .. all they seem to do is make ya feel guilty for every small HUMAN mistake that you make...
I have decided to refuse to live my life feeling guilty because of a religion that taught me to basiclly fear GOD... If I make a mistake... Ill learn from it...

Since I have stopped going to "CHURCH" ... I have begun to really enjoy life and really learn so much more... and become more understanding towards things. I think to myself Holayyy why did it take so long fer me to see this....and most of all i dont walk around feeling guilty for the smallest mistakes I make.

Just something i noticed....

[Singing Eagle]

I agree with part of what BM said - I say you need not worry about what they say - for if as the bible says "we are all God's children" - then therefore he created the ways of all of our tribes and they are of him and should be supported.

I am so over worrying about whether or not mainstream religions accept me and my belief in traditional ways! The church system has made too many mistakes and done too much damage to our people (and others) all in the name of god! I think it's disgusting how they carry on about their way being the only way - it's all brainwashing and propaganda!

Your way is the right way for you - do what's in your heart and stand your ground!

[Singerdad]

I am recently saved and have come to know Jesus Christ and have Him in my heart and I am thankful for that, but I have also been researching my family tree and have found that I am of the Iroquois Nation, I have known this for about 10 years now and I am proud of that and of my heritage. I have people at my church telling me that there is full of alot of idolism and things that are not of God and from the way it was said to me was full of stereotyping from things they may have seen in movies. If someone could please suggest some good literature it would be greatly appreciated. I hope that this post does not offend anyone because this was not my intention.

This one is easy - you're part Indian so you're going straight to Hell.

[WocusWoman]

I agree with both of the previous posts somewhat, you need more questions answered than you realize. Below is some information. WW

Sites With Information About the Iroquois Tribe

Iroquois Links:
Iroquois
from Encarta
Iroquois Indians
a school page with a story and some info
The Six Nations: Oldest Living Participatory Democracy on Earth
very comprehensive site on the "Iroquois"
Native Americans of the Northeast, The Six Nations of the Iroquois Confederacy
"This page was devised to bring together information about the Iroquois Nation."
Six Nations
"SIX NATIONS RESERVATION IS LOCATED IN ONTARIO, CANADA. APPROXIMATELY 50 KILOMETERS SOUTH OF TORONTO"
Iroquois History
by Lee Sultzman
The Iroquois Legacy
info on all of the tribes
Iroquois
from the CMCC site
The Netguide Website of the Six Nations
"we hit on the idea of putting together a site dedicated to the Six Nations. To that end, we began researching exactly what is available in cyber-space and then categorized our findings in a logical and easy to follow format. "
Iroquois
basic info
Links to the Six Nations of the Iroquois
several links
The Iroquois Confederacy as a Potential Ecofeminist Model
a scholarly paper
The Iroquois Creation
interesting story
The Iroquois League
about them
Lacrosse: An Iroquois Tradition
from the Oneida home page
The Haudenosaunee Today
"Where They Live"

end of Iroquois links

[badmaninc]

I am recently saved and have come to know Jesus Christ and have Him in my heart and I am thankful for that, but I have also been researching my family tree and have found that I am of the Iroquois Nation, I have known this for about 10 years now and I am proud of that and of my heritage. I have people at my church telling me that there is full of alot of idolism and things that are not of God and from the way it was said to me was full of stereotyping from things they may have seen in movies. If someone could please suggest some good literature it would be greatly appreciated. I hope that this post does not offend anyone because this was not my intention.

Dude, this is 2005. God doesn't exist. He sure enough doesn't care whether your church has problems with your "heritage". If your church community and their beliefs say it is wrong for you to have other teaching besides the religion then you need a lot of help we can't give you in here dude. Any group who supports the ideology that their way is the true way and all other ways are wrong is well STUPID. If they are not willing to "let" you believe in other things then I wouldn't want to be a part of it.

[drinkingfromysaucer2]

I don't understand the question. Good literature about?

[scootin]

I am recently saved and have come to know Jesus Christ and have Him in my heart and I am thankful for that, but I have also been researching my family tree and have found that I am of the Iroquois Nation, I have known this for about 10 years now and I am proud of that and of my heritage. I have people at my church telling me that there is full of alot of idolism and things that are not of God and from the way it was said to me was full of stereotyping from things they may have seen in movies. If someone could please suggest some good literature it would be greatly appreciated. I hope that this post does not offend anyone because this was not my intention.