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  • #76
    Originally posted by Blackbear
    These guys started out even as far back as the sixties when the Hippies were exploring other cultures and religions to find their higher calling, purpose.. whatever. It's just that now with people wanting to be healthy and unstressed and finding no purpose in life, or wanting a new purpose... they will seek out anything that says they are peaceful. And some of these guys are very convinceing .. especially to those that don't know jack squat... some even believe in their own bull.

    I like sharing my culture and stories and history of my people.. and especially crafts.. but I hate that guys like this make me think twice or more all the time about who i talk to less they take it and turn it into something for themselves for profit or whatever. And I used to like to learn of other's religions, beliefs, ways.. but now I'm afraid to ask others about them but I'm more afraid to offend by not knowing and saying something wrong.
    i dont like it when non ndn's tell me that im wrong lol had a woman tell me i was wrong for calling myself indian said it was "native american"
    sigpic
    TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT

    (and no,this isnt zeek)

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    • #77
      Originally posted by unegatowodi
      Fixing this problem is going to take a lot more than one white guy like me who tries to be responsible.
      I know i threw a rather convoluted statement/question out to start this thread but between the second half of blackbear "one's who just see us as some kind of cash cow that they can harness. The latter I can't call wannabes cause they are'nt really wanting to be indians, just want to take advantage of the wannabes and those searching for something more in their lives. I despise those kind intensely."
      and the quote I used from unegatowodi sums it up best what I'm truly driving at. Some form of Native awareness program needs to go on in these non native areas, of course that will run into all sorts of problem in definition so i throw my hands in the air lol. (now i got a craving for popcorn lmao)
      Please visit http://www.kiowakat.com/
      "The truth shall set you free, but first it's gonna piss you off a whole lot".

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Blackbear
        These guys started out even as far back as the sixties when the Hippies were exploring other cultures and religions to find their higher calling, purpose.. whatever. It's just that now with people wanting to be healthy and unstressed and finding no purpose in life, or wanting a new purpose... they will seek out anything that says they are peaceful. And some of these guys are very convinceing .. especially to those that don't know jack squat... some even believe in their own bull.

        I like sharing my culture and stories and history of my people.. and especially crafts.. but I hate that guys like this make me think twice or more all the time about who i talk to less they take it and turn it into something for themselves for profit or whatever. And I used to like to learn of other's religions, beliefs, ways.. but now I'm afraid to ask others about them but I'm more afraid to offend by not knowing and saying something wrong.
        It's been said that Arnold Joseph was the perfect hippie back in the 60's cuz all the hippies wanted to be Indians!


        Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


        "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

        Mr. Rossie Freeman

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        • #79
          *munches more Popcorn* hmmm...needs salt...

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          • #80
            Originally posted by Joe's Dad
            It's been said that Arnold Joseph was the perfect hippie back in the 60's cuz all the hippies wanted to be Indians!


            Yep, that's true.
            Visit my Website & Forums: Native American & Cherokee Cultural Community. If you're interest it, sign up, feel free and hope to see you on the boards!

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            • #81
              Have you ever noticed that the people who seem to go to these fakes for spirituality all have some deep seated desire for power? It's like they don't have the looks or the money or the talent in life to become a superstar or politician so instead they want this fantasy "power" of knowledge and magic or something. To be able to talk to important dead indians and have their lives led by their wisdom and be able to communicate with animals yet under their peaceful talk they will tell you when confronted they can crush their enemies.... you ever notice that? There's even a few that have said that they channel dead native leaders who have a message for their tribes that was only revealed to them! Now why would our dead leaders come back as ghosts to some obscure white person and have them give us a message when there's still their own people listening???? They seem to think we've all lost our ways totally and our traditions and beliefs for some reason. And most pick out these names that either are involved with some sort of strong or "gentle" animal.. gentle usually for the women and strong for the men.
              I don't know how they come to think some of the things they do about our beliefs ... I mean if we really had the "power" that some of them think we do, don't you think we would have used it to not be in the situations we are now?
              Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

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              • #82
                * puts a dozen doughnuts on the table and gets comfortable,waiting for todays episode of " How White is Your Native World?" to begin....
                sigpic
                TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT

                (and no,this isnt zeek)

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by chickendad
                  If someone were to come up to me and say they were a Native Chief, Healer, whatever, I would accept that they say so and who am I to judge. That doesn't mean they are. Accept to avoid hate, but don't be mislead. If someone claims something, accept, but until your heart tells you something else.



                  *takes a sip of everyone's coffee *L

                  Cheers everyone!!!

                  ___


                  ChickenD,


                  I have been honored to be invited to attend spiritual ceremonies throughout N. America, when I go, I am a visitor.

                  Not once during "ceremony" did a single individual "boast" they were a chief, medicineman or shaman.

                  This is not the Indian way!



                  So when someone comes up and introduces themselves as a Chief or has a "spiritual title" in front of their name, I know,

                  This is not the Indian way!!!


                  and proceed accordingly.
                  Last edited by WhoMe; 01-31-2006, 12:36 PM.
                  Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Kiwehnzii
                    I am 1/512 Dutch. I know in my heart that this is so. When I see windmills, my heart soars. I purchased a pair of wooden shoes at a yard sale. I had to have them. When I put them on visions of tulips surround me. The story of the child who plugged a hole in the dyke turned me to tears.

                    I tell people of my lost heritage but they take one look at me and say, "No way man! You're Anishinaabe all the way!" What can I do?



                    I first submitted a post similar to this a few years ago and my situation has not changed. I tried to join a Dutch-Canadian club with no success. My skin color has been a detriment to my being accepted. My Ojibwe accent is unmistakeable and is hard to disguise.

                    Would a trip to the homeland help me out? I don't know if I should chance it as ( I heard) there are drug cafes and the sex trade is blatantly displayed in windows. Is that bad? I want so much to learn and partake of my Dutch heritage in every aspect.
                    ROFL.....I think my great great grandma was a white princess!
                    I'm not mean....You're just a sissy


                    http://www.mytribalspace.com/tribal/...ame_ndngirl70/
                    http://www.myspace.com/ndngirl70

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Blackbear
                      Have you ever noticed that the people who seem to go to these fakes for spirituality all have some deep seated desire for power?
                      I had a boss once that just HAD to tell me about the most amazing spiritual experience that she had when she paid to go into a sweat. Of course, I could only smile and nod but I wanted to say "I don't give a rats a** you freaking Twinkie!!
                      I'm not mean....You're just a sissy


                      http://www.mytribalspace.com/tribal/...ame_ndngirl70/
                      http://www.myspace.com/ndngirl70

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by ndngirl70
                        ROFL.....I think my great great grandma was a white princess!
                        did your people live in covered wagons?
                        sigpic
                        TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT

                        (and no,this isnt zeek)

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by ndngirl70
                          I had a boss once that just HAD to tell me about the most amazing spiritual experience that she had when she paid to go into a sweat. Of course, I could only smile and nod but I wanted to say "I don't give a rats a** you freaking Twinkie!!
                          LMAO @ twinkie
                          sigpic
                          TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT

                          (and no,this isnt zeek)

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Click here: John J. Miller on Fake Indians on National Review Online

                            p.m.
                            Honest Injun?
                            The incidence of fake Indians is almost epidemic.

                            By John J. Miller
                            EDITOR'S NOTE: "Did a struggling white writer of gay erotica become one of multicultural literature's most celebrated memoirists — by passing himself off as Native American?" So asks L.A. Weekly in its current issue, which features a story by Matthew Fleischer on an author who calls himself Nasdijj and claims to be a Navajo.

                            Fake memoirs have made news lately, with the revelations surrounding James Frey, the author of the best-selling book A Million Little Pieces. Nasdijj, for his part, may simply be the latest in a long line of Indian hoaxers, whose ranks also include the radical professor Ward Churchill and Forrest Carter, the author of The Education of Little Tree.

                            Last year, NR's John J. Miller reported on the phenomenon of Indian hoaxers, in the March 28, 2005 issue.


                            In his book The Education of Little Tree, Forrest Carter tells the tender tale of becoming an orphan and growing up in the Appalachian boondocks under the careful watch of his Cherokee grandparents. The book is full of sweet lessons about the importance of family and the need to live in harmony with nature. There's quite a backstory to it as well. First published in 1976, The Education of Little Tree received warm reviews and garnered a cult following, but wasn't a commercial hit. Ten years later, the University of New Mexico Press bought the rights to it for just $500.

                            That purchase ranks as one of the publishing industry's most lucrative coups: The Education of Little Tree has since sold hundreds of thousands of copies. "The values as well as the prose touched many who didn't usually read," wrote Prof. Rennard Strickland in a foreword to the original paperback edition. "Students of Native American life discovered the book to be as accurate as it was mystical and romantic." On June 23, 1991, the book debuted on the New York Times bestseller list for paperback nonfiction. It remained there throughout the summer and well into the fall, eventually rising to the top position. Then, on November 10, it vanished — and reappeared on the bestseller list for paperback fiction.

                            That's because it had been exposed as a fraud. Forrest Carter was really Asa Carter, a white supremacist who had written speeches for Alabama governor George Wallace in the 1960s. Wallace's viciously memorable line — "Segregation now! Segregation tomorrow! Segregation forever!" — probably came from Carter's pen. Carter, who died in 1979, was a forerunner to such fabulists as Stephen Glass and Jayson Blair. He was no Indian and his famous book was no memoir.

                            Carter was one of the more spectacular examples of a white person trying to come off as an Indian. There is a long history of this make-believe behavior, going back at least as far as the Boston Tea Party. The 19th and 20th centuries saw the emergence of fraternal orders and other organizations that aped Indian identities. Yet nobody seriously believed the Campfire Girls were the authentic daughters of Sitting Bull. That's not the case with some of the most recent forms of real Indian bull, as Carter and The Education of Little Tree demonstrate. "It's an epidemic," complains Vernon Bellecourt of the American Indian Movement. "These people are culture vultures, and their motive is to make money."

                            Between 1960 and 2000, the number of Americans claiming Indian ancestry on their census forms jumped by a factor of six. Neither birthrates nor counting methodologies can account for this explosive growth. Instead, the phenomenon arises in large part from the increasingly idealistic place Indians occupy in the popular imagination. Much of it is based on harmless sentiment mixed into a hash of unverifiable family legends and wishful thinking among folks who hang dreamcatchers from their rearview mirrors. But for a distinct subset, it's all about personal profit. They're professional imposters who have built entire careers by putting the sham into shaman.

                            The most famous of these pretenders is probably Iron Eyes Cody, the actor who starred in those Keep America Beautiful television ads during the 1970s. It turns out that the tear — actually glycerin — trickling down his sad face wasn't his only deception. Iron Eyes Cody was born Espera DeCorti, the son of Italian immigrants. His black hair and bronze skin apparently came from his mother's Sicilian side. Although many Indians who met him harbored doubts about his true identity, Iron Eyes turned his trickery into a successful career in Hollywood. He performed as an Indian in more than a hundred films, all the while insisting that his father was Cherokee and his mother Cree. His published autobiography is a pack of lies. The full truth came out only after his death in 1999.
                            Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

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                            • #89
                              cont...


                              The latest phony Indian to be unmasked is Ward Churchill, the University of Colorado professor who recently ruffled feathers for calling the victims of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center "little Eichmanns" whose massacre was a "penalty befitting their participation in" global capitalism. Churchill is an all-too-predictable product of the modern academy. He is a tenured "ethnic studies" specialist, but he does not hold a doctorate in anything, and his scholarship, if it can be called that, is riddled with errors and left-wing posturing. The man is a buffoon.

                              Churchill can get away with so few credentials and such a heap of sloppiness because he claims to speak on behalf of a disenfranchised minority. The basis for this assertion rests on Churchill's ancestry, which he has variously described as three-sixteenths Cherokee and one-sixteenth Cree. Yet he has never provided any documentary evidence on his background, which Indians commonly do to prove their status within a tribe. He did gain membership to the Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians in 1994, but it was an associate membership that was temporarily available to people who aren't in fact Indian. (Bill Clinton, who has said that his grandmother's grandmother was a Cherokee, is also an honorary member of the Keetoowah.)

                              "You can spot these phony baloneys across the continent," says Suzan Shown Harjo, a Cheyenne and Hodulgee Muscogee who first met Churchill about 15 years ago. "Right away, I could tell he was a faker because he refused to talk about his family."

                              Churchill served in Vietnam — he has boasted about going on dangerous jungle missions, but Army records indicate that he mostly drove trucks — and at the time he listed himself as "Caucasian." He switched this to "American Indian" in 1978, when he filled out an affirmative-action form as part of his application to become a lecturer in Native American studies at Colorado. He has maintained this identity ever since, though the only corroboration he can offer — apart from his obvious fondness for the long-hair-and-dark-sunglasses look of a reservation activist — is his own word.

                              A less extravagant but more common fraud than masquerading as an "ethnic studies" expert involves the marketing of non-Indian arts and crafts as "Indian-made." The problem became so pervasive that Congress toughened truth-in-advertising laws against it in 1990. Businesses caught violating the Indian Arts and Crafts Act face penalties up to $1 million. That's peanuts to the gambling industry, of course, and the fast growth of tribal casinos has prompted many Americans to embark on genealogical hunting expeditions. The enormous Foxwoods casino in Connecticut, for example, was built by a small band of people who didn't normally refer to themselves as Pequot Indians until they realized a tribal identity was their ticket to gambling riches.

                              For others, Indian ancestry is a gateway to government set-aside programs. A public-works contractor in California managed to qualify as a disadvantaged businessman because a great-great-grandparent's contribution to the family gene pool had made him 1/64th Indian.

                              One of the most common forms of exploitation involves white writers who don't pretend to be Indians themselves but who claim special insights into Indian spirituality. In 1968, Carlos Castaneda, a UCLA graduate student in anthropology, published The Teachings of Don Juan, which was allegedly based on his clandestine visits with a reclusive Yaqui sorcerer in the Sonoran desert. The book purports to describe the mystical secrets of an ancient Indian faith, which happened to involve using a lot of hallucinogenic drugs. Castaneda's ramblings were in tune with the turn-on, drop-out times. His book became an international bestseller. Castaneda spent the next three decades refusing interviews and issuing sequels based on his supposed encounters with a man nobody else ever met. He died in 1998.

                              Another bestselling author, Lynn Andrews, has been dubbed "the female Carlos Castaneda," and it wasn't meant as an insult. Her first book, Medicine Woman, described a journey into the far reaches of Manitoba, where she met a pair of female sages. Then she returned home to Beverly Hills and has spent the rest of her life peddling New Age gobbledygook in subsequent books, through online courses, and at Hawaiian retreats. She is just a small part of a cottage industry that offers sweat-lodge "purification ceremonies" and tour-guided "rites of passage" in the wilderness. In 1993, the National Congress of American Indians became so frustrated by all these perversions of authentic religious traditions that it issued a "declaration of war" against "non-Indian 'wanna-bes,' hucksters, cultists, commercial profiteers, and self-styled New Age shamans."

                              Nobody likes a con artist, and it isn't difficult to find harsh critics of white people who "play Indian" for personal gain. One of their most scathing detractors has labeled Castaneda "the greatest hoax since Piltdown Man," called Andrews "an air-head 'feminist' yuppie," and branded Ruth Beebe Hill's Hanta Yo — yet another book of doubtful legitimacy — a "ludicrous performance." Taken together, these charlatans have "made a significant recent contribution (for profit) to the misrepresentation and appropriation of indigenous spirituality." What's more, they've "been tendered some measure of credibility by the 'certified scholars' of American universities."

                              But that's not all. By impersonating Indians and making them look like fools, these imposters are guilty of "cultural genocide."

                              That would seem to make them little Eichmanns, too. The author of these words? Ward Churchill.

                              Thanks to Sokoki Wolf for sending me this link!
                              Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by ndngirl70
                                I had a boss once that just HAD to tell me about the most amazing spiritual experience that she had when she paid to go into a sweat. Of course, I could only smile and nod but I wanted to say "I don't give a rats a** you freaking Twinkie!!
                                LOL my former boss and his woman were into the new age scene too for awhile there... that's why I know so much is cause I worked at the end of the store that sold crystals and stones and such as well as the trade, antique and ..well generally expensive beads. But in the last few years they started selling less and less of these things and are getting rid of their new age book section and such because they started figureing out how bogus this stuff is. I'm proud of 'em cause they've figured this out on thier own!
                                Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

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