Immigration

[Joe's Dad]

Link

At first I wasn't going to post a response to this thread because in reading many of the previous posts it's saddening to see just how much prejudice there is among ourselves as PEOPLE.
There is one thing I would like to say though, and that is that it's wrong to generalize people of a certain nationality just because you've had a bad experience with one/several. Cuz if that was the case, I've had bad experiences with african-americans, anglos, asians, puerto-ricans, etc, etc.... (I'm not saying I'm a hard person to get along with, *L* ) but I don't go around saying ALL blacks, whites, asians are bad.



I've lived in Chicago, L.A., New York, North Carolina, Florida, Seattle... and you know what? There's all kinds of bad/ good people out there. Some contribute and some don't... all from different backgrounds and cultures.

I always try to tackle this debate in a more individual manner, not just group everybody in a bunch to pass down judgement.

you are prolly one of the sweetest young ladies I know. I just wonder...how did you end up in Canaduh?

how was Chiliwak?

[badmaninc]

I just read this thread and was trying to avoid responding to it. My word, we're not any better or less racist than non-ndns. We don't like people cause they take jobs and money from other citizens. We don't like people cause they don't speak english. Our ancestors welcomed those poor downtrodden physically sick foreigners. It didn't always work out well for us but they aren't going to magically get back in their boats and go back. That being said, to use immigrants and their status as new residents of the countries as reasons for shipping them out of here is deplorable. Ndns from Canada can move to the US anytime we want and do not need a green card to work there. We have what is called the J treaty which means that it isn't viewed as a boarder but simply a line. We in recent years have used the events of 911 and other terrorist acts to limit or try to get a better sense of control at these lines. When I was stopped at a boarder a couple of years ago, my kids forgot to bring ID with them. We were treated shabbily by the homeland security forces and my then 13 year old daughter noticed the only people being questioned vigorously were people of colour. It was Asians, Black, Aboriginal, Indo's. There were no complexion challenged people in the building except the guards. Now it appears that racial profiling is accepted. I don't know about that cause I have been on the wrong end of this treatment on more than a few occasions during my life. To say that the money leaves the country is crazy. We all travel out of the country on vacation to various warm spots throughout the year. Well not me cause I can't afford it. If we are going to tighten up immigration then we should go whole hog and make tough new retroactive laws, like say about 500+ years.

[Homalosa]

I found this and used it in class to for a poetry lesson and to uh, remind folks who the real immigrants are. It's cool when some white folks know where they come from!

"Immigrant Song"
By Nirvana
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods,
Will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde singing and crying:
"Valhalla I am coming!"

On we sweep,
With thrashing oar.
Our only goal will be the western shore.

We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
Sultry fields of green,
Whispered tales of lore,
Of how we calmed the tides of war,
We are your overlords.

On we sweep,
With thrashing oar.
Our only goal will be the western shore.

So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins,
For peace and trust can win the day despite all your losing"

Dang, what is Kurt saying now?

[*pumpkin*]

Link

At first I wasn't going to post a response to this thread because in reading many of the previous posts it's saddening to see just how much prejudice there is among ourselves as PEOPLE.
There is one thing I would like to say though, and that is that it's wrong to generalize people of a certain nationality just because you've had a bad experience with one/several. Cuz if that was the case, I've had bad experiences with african-americans, anglos, asians, puerto-ricans, etc, etc.... (I'm not saying I'm a hard person to get along with, *L* ) but I don't go around saying ALL blacks, whites, asians are bad.

I've lived in Chicago, L.A., New York, North Carolina, Florida, Seattle... and you know what? There's all kinds of bad/ good people out there. Some contribute and some don't... all from different backgrounds and cultures.

I always try to tackle this debate in a more individual manner, not just group everybody in a bunch to pass down judgement.

couldn't have said it better myself. if more people thought the same maybe this world would be a better place to live in. but until people get over their superiority complexes, looks we're stuck wading through this ignorance.

[Brisa26]

.

[windrider]

I found this and used it in class to for a poetry lesson and to uh, remind folks who the real immigrants are. It's cool when some white folks know where they come from!

"Immigrant Song"
By Nirvana
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods,
Will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde singing and crying:
"Valhalla I am coming!"

On we sweep,
With thrashing oar.
Our only goal will be the western shore.

We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
Sultry fields of green,
Whispered tales of lore,
Of how we calmed the tides of war,
We are your overlords.

On we sweep,
With thrashing oar.
Our only goal will be the western shore.

So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins,
For peace and trust can win the day despite all your losing"

Dang, what is Kurt saying now?

You must be young.Nirvana reproduced this song.It is originally by Led Zepplin.



You guys are missing the point here.It is not about race,or helping the poor or having immigrants here.I am all for them bettering thier lives.Just do it LEGAL.It is about the law,they are not above the law no more than any one else.When there is no law then there are only men with guns.

[Brisa26]

.

[windrider]

YES???
They came over illegally....that is BREAKING THE LAW
They are also proposing to take over several states and make a new country called Aztlan....that is Sedition and Treason and yes that is BREAKING THE LAW....punishable by death by military standards.Sounds to me like you were asleep in class or something.

[Brisa26]

.

[Homalosa]

You must be young.Nirvana reproduced this song.It is originally by Led Zepplin.



You guys are missing the point here.It is not about race,or helping the poor or having immigrants here.I am all for them bettering thier lives.Just do it LEGAL.It is about the law,they are not above the law no more than any one else.When there is no law then there are only men with guns.

Thanks for the compliment. I am in my mid thirties and am familiar with Led Zepplin. I was just doing a search for lyrics and found this under Nirvana. Still, I think living in Seattle, a city where there is much immigrant scapegoating, lends much to their covering the song.

And if the issue is only about being here legally, then someone must address how much redtape, time and money is involved in the legal process. If employers would only hire legal workers, that process might be shorter or at least wait the effort.

I think what's weird about some of the posts here is that of all people, we, Indians, should know that the federal government only cares about law enforcement when they benefit. If original immigration laws were enforced, treaty rights would hold supreme, and Oklahoma and the rest of Indian Territory would still be Indian land. But oh, homesteaders needed land and that contract was broken. Then in the 40's the war effort needed workers and the Relocation Act appeared. Bottom line, the law is only enforced when its author makes out well.

[billyjoejimbob]

SUPERNDNGRL-I think it was you who mentioned taxes.

Yeah they have a fake SSN, but they work "under the table" the govt isnt getting any income tax from them. No illegal has a legit, tax paying job.

and food isnt taxable.

if they do pay tax on purchases, since they are in poor areas they pay less. in NJ, tax is 3% in poor areas.

so the government is getting 3 cents per dollar spent on anything other than rent or food.

Im paying the govt 25% of my income, 6% on purchases and ?% on the bank interest on the money I already earned AND paid taxes on.

So if I make $100 the government gets $25. If I spend the remaining $75, the government gets another $4.50.

So basically, for every $100 I make, the government gets almost $30 of.

'illegals are only paying $3 per $100.

ILLEGALS are different than IMMIGRANTS.

If you are here legally and play by the rules, I have no problem with you.


-"I'm not predjudice, I hate everybody"

[LILfawn]

If they are indigious peoples and not spanish decendents, are they really immigrants, once there were no borders for our people. As far as those who are not i think they should immigrate into america the legally and i wouldnt have a problems. As poor aas i am i dont think america could feed many more mouths with out more changes to our system, them maybe we could take on more immigrants. right now i dont think its a good time for illegal imigrants but legal ones ar ok

[tainon8vgirl]

tau guaitaio/hello friends
yea i think they should just learn the language. my opinion is its kinda disrespectful to be in another land and have the arrogance to commute to people in your own language when the language spoken in that country is entirely different. I understand that many immigrants have left their country because of political injustice and such but to sneak into this country isn't right. there are plenty of other immigrants who are here for the same reasons as the illegal immigrants that came here legally....well just a thought...but i love everybody so lets just be friends...

[seaotter]

Because there are so many hispanics in this the issue of race is being raised as the reason for the way they are treated. Raising the racist yell is an old tradition among minorities, everyone has done it sometime (even religious minorities).
NPR interviewed a group of people who had just been sworn in after going through legal immigration. And they (as a group) said to let these people in after breaking the law was a spit in the face of all their sacrifice, hard work and time.
It is NOT about RACE. It is about breaking the law and protecting against terrorists. It is a miracle that something hasn't happened yet, or they are waiting till they get enough people through. One can immigrate legally- so why do it the other way?
It is also about a solid, non changing law. It seems to be at the moment a law of convience, arbitrarily applied. The law needs to be made clear, the same for everyone and applied the same. While there are many laws I am unhappy with, even in our Traditional societies there are Laws (traditions) ect. People who break laws, then expect the equal treatment of those that don't are not going to be healthy for the future generations.
It's easy to make this about race. It unfortuantly is for some people. But by focusing on that we are missing the other points. It is not impossible to immigrate, get a work visa (half the Outer Banks buisnesses rely on foreign students in the summer) it can be done. Why break the law? Are you better than the law? Does it not apply to you? This is my sticking point. And like I said earlier my dad is a naturalized american. So I know it can be done.

[windrider]

It is good to have debate on this issue.The reason I posted is because this issue affects ALL American citizens and Legal Immigrants.

It goes beyond tax laws.The following happened to some friends of mine and it happens every day.

You and your family are going to that pow-wow that you have been anticipating for weeks.As you tool down the highway in your faithful NDN ride with legal registration,liscense and insurance.Suddenly you are impacted by another vehicle.In this tragic accident 2 of your family members are killed and 3 are severly injured.You have miraculously not injured but are very shaken up .You see the other driver stumble out drunkenly swearing as beer and liquer bottles tumble from his vehicle.The police arrive and as it turns out the driver is drunk,has no liscense,no registration,no insurance and is in this country illegally...so what happens??? To him,nothing but a couple hot meals and a free ride back to the border.Your familys life has been turned upside down.You may or may not be able to collect on your insurance.How many laws were broken??? 1-vehicular homicide 2-no liscence 3-no registration 4-no insurance 5-DWI on top of the original illegal entry....but yet your family will bear the brunt of this nightmare.


Go to any other country and break a law and see what happens....you dont get deported...you get thrown in a dungeon with absolutely no rights!!!


A few months back a Truck driver here illegally from Bosnia killed 3 people and hurt several others in Dallas,Tx. All he got was a ticket back to Bosnia.