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This is what happens when "Non Indians want to PLAY Indian"

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  • This is what happens when "Non Indians want to PLAY Indian"

    2 seeking spiritual enlightenment die in new-age sweat lodge


    Suzanne Herel, Matthew B. Stannard, Chronicle Staff Writers
    Thursday, June 27, 2002
    ©2002 San Francisco Chronicle.

    URL: http://www.sfgate.com/


    Before embarking on an intense spiritual retreat last week, Kirsten "Kris" Babcock gave each of her closest friends a handwritten note describing her impending death.

    She was talking in symbolic terms -- or so she thought.

    In an eerily tragic turn of events, Babcock did not survive the "death sweat" she wrote about -- a ceremony intended to be the first step toward spiritual enlightenment as part of a new-age program called vision quest.

    Babcock, 34, of Redding and fellow seeker David Thomas Hawker, 36, of Union City died early Friday after spending more than an hour in a sweat lodge constructed of branches, plastic sheathing and blankets on a remote ranch in El Dorado County. Two others, a man and a woman, survived.

    Police are trying to determine whether the deaths were caused by poor ventilation or a toxic substance poured on hot rocks.

    Autopsies have been completed, but toxicology results could take eight weeks, said Lt. Kevin House of the El Dorado County Sheriff's Department.

    The weeklong retreat was timed to honor the summer solstice and was sponsored by Kokopelli Ranch, comprising 40 verdant acres nestled in the vineyards of the Shenandoah Valley and run by the Shamanic Fellowship.

    The fellowship was formed in 1994 "to develop a sacred and safe place for people to experience and practice shamanic principles in their day-to-day lives," according to the ranch's Web site.

    No one at the ranch returned phone calls or e-mail messages this week.

    Babcock had invited 10 friends and family members to join her at the ranch for the final weekend, which for her was to include four hours in the sweat lodge and 48 hours alone in the woods.

    In her five-page note, she requested that her supporters camp far away from the "death lodge" because of the disturbing noises they might hear.

    Babcock expected to emerge from the lodge around dawn, at which time she would paint her face black and participate in an "owl dance."

    "The owls cut our ties to this world and send us to the other side," she wrote. "The rock pile is our symbolic grave. . . . When I cross the rock pile, people will grieve my going over. Don't be surprised if/when people call out for me not to go and if it feels real."

    Dale McDonald, his fiancee, Tonya, and his 14-year-old daughter were among Babcock's supporters.

    "We had been warned that there would be bizarre sounds, wailing," he said in a telephone interview. "We were camped less than a quarter of a mile away. .

    . . We couldn't sleep."

    Shortly after 4 a.m., Cina Hines, Babcock's domestic partner, came to them, he said.

    "She called out our names and said, 'Wake up. Kris is dead,' " McDonald said. "We thought it was part of the script. And she said, 'No, she's really dead.' . . . We had to go see the body to make sure."

    Witnesses told police that Aimee Phelps, one of the participants, had crawled out of the lodge shortly before 4 a.m., dizzy and vomiting.

    Soon, the chanting from inside ceased, and someone went in to find Babcock and Hawker dead and another man unconscious. By the time emergency personnel arrived, the surviving man had come to on his own.

    Police are looking into witness reports that Hawker sprinkled something on the hot rocks that gave a strong metallic odor. The two survivors could not be reached for comment.

    The other participants didn't know much about Hawker, McDonald said. While they had invited friends and family to join them at the ranch, Hawker was alone.

    Hawker's friends described him as a spiritual person who had been looking forward to the vision quest.

    "He was happier than anyone I've ever known," longtime friend Ken Mitchell said of the recently unemployed electrical engineer.

    Mitchell said Hawker was not new to the sweat lodge ritual.

    "He's done it before, and it was very intense, and he enjoyed it," he said. "It was a cleansing thing."

    Last Thursday, before the sweat lodge session, the questers sponsored a "giveaway dinner," in which they honored their supporters with small gifts. Babcock gave each of her friends a cake of soap she had made by hand.

    McDonald said Hawker gave the organizers crystals that struck sparks when he banged them together. He promised his fellow questers that he had a gift for them, too.

    "He said, 'I can't give it to you now, but I'll give it to you on the other side when we know ourselves and each other better,' " McDonald said.

    Then, McDonald said, Hawker raised his fist to his chest and said, "It's a good day to die."

    It struck many as bizarre, McDonald said, but many similar things were being said that night, including McDonald's words to Babcock, just before she entered the lodge.

    "I said, 'Die well, Kris.' And she said, 'That seems very apropos.' " McDonald said. "It was a beautiful moment."

    E-mail Suzanne Herel at [email protected] and Matthew B. Stannard at [email protected].

    ©2002 San Francisco Chronicle. Page A - 15

  • #2
    Not only were these people trying to be something that they are not but they also lacked common sense. Anyone with the smallest amount of common sense would have done some reserch about how to build a traditional sweat lodge and such. It's a pity that they caused their own deaths through their ingnorance.
    Courage is just fear that has said it's prayers.

    Comment


    • #3
      OMG!!
      My sister built one where she lived in Miami, FL, but she knew what she was doing. She NEVER let me go in because of my health problems, but she went in all the time with her friends.
      "Riches from the heart can not be stolen."

      Comment


      • #4
        LMFAO!!! Said it before and I'll say it again "stupid azz white people"......why do the continue doing stupid shyt like this??? Anyway, if we can't breed them out, we should just sweat them out...LOL!!!
        sigpic

        ...And shephards we shall be. For thee my lord, for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand. That our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee. And teeming with souls shall it ever be. E Nomini Patri, E Fili, E Spiritu Sancti.

        Comment


        • #5
          Its sad, but I laughed...does that make me a bad person?

          I want to see a pic of these people.

          Ive only sweated once by invitation about 4 years ago. Too powerful of a thing for me, just felt like I shouldnt have been there. (or was it my nerves)
          There are 2 types of people in the world...
          Really stupid people who think they are smart
          and
          Really smart people who think they are smart.

          Comment


          • #6
            Wtf????
            ...it is what it is...

            Comment


            • #7
              wth were they trying to kill themsleves?!?!

              its kinda hard to understand... but all i kno is that its WRONG!!!!!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                sounds eerily like that death, (real death), was the intent; kinda like that cult back in the late '90's, the one that celebrated the arrival of the comet??? they were all found wearing sweats and nike shoes in bunks. It is crap like this that gives our traditions a bad rep..........damn new agers..........

                Comment


                • #9
                  This happened back in 2002. It's been posted on this board several times before. Then I noticed it was brought up in native issuses either last week or several days ago. It's good to remind people this isn't a game they are playing.
                  "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    im not saying a word,just shakin my head....
                    sigpic
                    TRUDELL FOR PRESIDENT

                    (and no,this isnt zeek)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 50cal
                      LMFAO!!! Said it before and I'll say it again "stupid azz white people"......why do the continue doing stupid shyt like this??? Anyway, if we can't breed them out, we should just sweat them out...LOL!!!

                      I am not saying this to defend wannabees and twinkies.Because they are a whole nother case in itself. But when I feel a statement is not fair, I will speak on what I feel is right. This leads me to inquire if you are implying every white person is stupid and that therefore stupidity exists in only one race? If so,I would have to disagree. My saying is "a*sholes come in all colors" and unfortunately I find most problems are throughout the human race as a whole. I've seen stupidity exist in all colors as well and I have seen no evidence to show stupidity as a trait to go specifically to those whom are white. Also, I am white. So does that make me stupid?

                      In closing, I would like to add that I have seen some africian american wannabees as well. The nationality of the people in the article weren't disclosed either. Overall I feel your statement is unfair to what descent white people there are out there. No disrespect intended of course to you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CrazyLittleIrishGirl
                        I am not saying this to defend wannabees and twinkies.Because they are a whole nother case in itself. But when I feel a statement is not fair, I will speak on what I feel is right. This leads me to inquire if you are implying every white person is stupid and that therefore stupidity exists in only one race? If so,I would have to disagree. My saying is "a*sholes come in all colors" and unfortunately I find most problems are throughout the human race as a whole. I've seen stupidity exist in all colors as well and I have seen no evidence to show stupidity as a trait to go specifically to those whom are white. Also, I am white. So does that make me stupid?

                        In closing, I would like to add that I have seen some africian american wannabees as well. The nationality of the people in the article weren't disclosed either. Overall I feel your statement is unfair to what descent white people there are out there. No disrespect intended of course to you.

                        He was trying to be funny hunny.. but the majority of people who end up doing things like this and causing folks to die, and their participants are white.. You can tell he's joking though by talking about breeding them out...
                        Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blackbear
                          He was trying to be funny hunny.. but the majority of people who end up doing things like this and causing folks to die, and their participants are white.. You can tell he's joking though by talking about breeding them out...

                          Ah ok. No problem. I wasn't sure if he was just joking, or if I was just PMSing and being oversensitive about it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Some People Just Need To Be A Part Of Something Even If It Kills Them.
                            frodo failed. bush has the ring

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Its usually us white folks that are doing the stupid stuff, im not holding it against you CLIG. You're justified.
                              There are 2 types of people in the world...
                              Really stupid people who think they are smart
                              and
                              Really smart people who think they are smart.

                              Comment

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