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  • #61
    I can understand why this question might come up......there are people out there that think there is a conflict between pow-wow and church; mainly because of time.
    Sometimes I'd like to be at both, but can't. On Sundays during the summer.....for me it's about 50/50......half the time I'm in church and half the time I'm at a pow-wow. Once in awhile I can make it to both.
    There is also a Christian mindset that pow-wows are in conflict with "keeping the Sabbath day holy."
    I disagree with some in that pow-wows are not the same as church. "Our elders teach us that through dancing and singing we express ourselves to the Creator and as we do so we bring blessings of strength and happiness to our people."
    When we go to church....whether it's in a Christian church, sweat lodge, Sundance lodge, NAC mtg., or out in nature we also pray, sing and express ourselves to the Creator and in doing so, we are blessed in many ways.
    Our elders also teach us that life is like the medicine wheel.....each of it's spokes represent various, cultures and religion. All of them different, but still sacred--- because they lead us to him (our Creator).
    "I'd rather be @ a POW-WOW!"


    • #62
      Originally posted by wyo_rose

      Anyway, I go to both. Around here they even have church AT the powwow on Sunday mornings sometimes.

      What's the intent of this thread? Everyone has strong feelings about their spirituality...and powwows, apparently.

      Which religion/spirituality is right? All of them AND none of them. There is only one truth and noone on earth knows it.

      I'm sure we'll all be surprised when we cross over. And then it won't matter one iota....only how we loved and treated our fellow humans while given the chance.

      Wow...your post is very impressive!! I'm gonna learn how and toss some points your way!!! I think the underlying message is to love each other and be tolerant of each other's differences and NOT judge and condemn...I personally thing that that is a creed to live by regardless of what you believe in and/or do with your life.
      Ipsica Waci
      Wicahpi Eyoyambya Olowan


      • #63
        I am going to type this post on behalf of my mother:

        It's a good thing when people get shook a little, which is what this thread did. The person who started it probably didn't intend for anything good to happen, but what has happened is something positive, and that is the vocalization of people's passion for their spiritual choices. By putting it out into the air, or in this case, over the internet, it helps you as an individual reaffirm yourself, and you have grown by the the mere act of "THINKING" about it. Sorting and asembling your responses has helped you realize something, and solidified your own stance on your beliefs, OR, it has helped you witness a void in your beliefs that you will now go out and try to fill. There is no wrong answers here. Professing to be ONE (chrisitian) or the OTHER (Traditional, or as wrongly assumed, Powwow) does not make you any more or any less than what you truly are. People of all faiths should have as many options as our Native people do. Its a wonderful thing to be native right now, as we HAVE those choices, and we have our hearts and souls still with us that we can live and prosper very well regardless of what we choose. It's time to stop stepping on each other and judging and condemning each other, as that diminishes each other and more importantly, our ownselves. It's so nice to hear my daughter read to me all the responses to what might seem like a tedious and over played issue. But you young people have proven that our hearts are still beating strong, and we, as people, rely on the energy your blood flowing provides. Keep your passion, keep your love, and regardless of how, when or where you pray, keep praying!

        Gah, my mom rocks!!
        Ipsica Waci
        Wicahpi Eyoyambya Olowan


        • #64
          Your mom does rock!!

          And I like FF's thing about the Medicine Wheel spokes.

          These religion threads here HAVE made me rethink and clarify my views.
          Last edited by wyo_rose; 12-14-2006, 11:37 AM.
 is what it is...


          • #65
            I agree!
            I enjoy both, I can say that what I have read here, is that I have a clear understanding of who I am,who my grandparents, parents and who my children will be. They will be always be native. They taught me the ways of going to church and they they have taught me the ways of the big drum. It is that you can have both in your life. I attend church, not regularly, but I attend and I take my children with me. So that they will know our traditional ways. Which is both. What my father and mother had taught me, is what I will be teaching my children.

            Well, that is my 2 cents worth.


            • #66
              For me.
              oh yeah, no offence

              Teen boyz grass dancer.
              Powwow Life.
              Hey guys, don't be afraid to use the Warrior's Look.
              It works.


              • #67
                Originally posted by Nezbah
                **sits down with some popcorn..........anybody???**

                I still say spirituality lies within the heart. Whether its in a church, teepee, lodge, or a rock, it don't matter. People can preach all the jabba babba they want..... No one can change what I feel in my heart.....

                **ding** round 3!!! .............
                I agree and want some!!! I brought candy and drinks.
                SHAKE IT!!!!


                • #68
                  I agree with the powwows and church being two different things. Josiah said what I have always told people...... powwows are social gatherings. My people (cherokee) weren't originally powwow people so I don't have old teachings on that...... but my Lakota brother has explained that in the old days that the gathering together in the spring and summer months was a good time. Social mainly but also a time for ceremonies. The two were totally separate.

                  The way I look at it...... Spirituality is not something to be taken off and put on. You should be your spiritual self at all times. If you are truly comfortable you can do this anywhere. I also happen to be a follower of Christ. If you notice I say it that way because I myself have a hard time with quote/unquote "Christians". Some of the people that have hurt me most in my life has been "Christians" claiming to be a follower of Christ. But I try not to judge the church or other christians based on what these few have done.

                  I also have to say too it was not until I left the organized "church" that I found Christ. My mom had me in church nine months before I was born. (methodist) and when I got older I would even go to mass with my dad.

                  What I have found in my life .......... I can pray anywhere.......... outside......... car........ bathroom or sitting in a sweatlodge or church pew. I know who I am talking to and who watches over me. I will say this............. I've invited organized church people to a sweat before and they couldn't do it. It went against what they believe it to be. That's fine. I think nothing less of them. But dag gonne it........ don't try to "save" me from my heathen ways.

                  I have always like the teaching of the medicine wheel. I have found you have people that say you start in the center and you go out on each path (spoke) and jouney around it and always returning to the center. I have also had people say the creator is at the center and as we travel around each path leads back to him. For me personally ......... I now find....... I need to be in the center WITH the creator before journeying out and I always have to return to HIM for that strength and guidance I need to travel again.

                  Guess that's all I got to say about this....... anyone knowing me I've already said more than I ever have on it.

                  One final thing I would say is try to find the similarities instead of the differences.
                  "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume


                  • #69
                    Church or Powwow

                    My family does both. I get asked this question alot because I am a licensed minister and have taught in Bible Schools and overseas when I'm not on my secular job.

                    For me there's no conflict as long as I don't mix medicine. The Lord doesn't require other ethnicities to stop being who they are when they come to Him so why should we? So whatever you believe in just stay true to it. Many churches now have mid-week services or early morning Sunday services that we can take advantage of and then go on and enjoy PW.

                    A friend who is also in ministry has criticized me for continuing to PW, but the Bible says, 'judge not lest you be judged'. because more than once I've been approached by people at PW who have asked for prayer or asked about a Scripture that addressed what they were going through.

                    So I was meeting a need that couldn't be met if I limited my walk to inside the church building. Honestly even when I don't dance there is just a peace that comes when you sit down and listen to a good drum.

                    Civilzation has been thrust upon me..and it has not added one whit to my love for truth, honesty, and generosity Chief Luther Standing Bear


                    • #70
                      Would you mind defining "mixing medicine"? Thanks. (just tryin to understand your terminology)
                      "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by [o_o][*-*][-_-][^-^]
                        Takes all leads sounds like one of them european oppressors that sailed on over to the americas in search of oppurtunity.....Scary

                        HAHAHAHA.........THAT'S A GOOT ONE!


                        • #72
                          i got a question....

                          what's the main reason for going to "CHURCH"?

                          what's the main reason for going to a POWWOW?

                          i've prayed at both but i didn't go to a powwow cause i wanted to pray...but i've been to church...cause i wanted to pray! anyway...

                          theres the difference in my heart...


                          • #73
                            I've been to church's for wakes or funerals where the ministers have no problem with traditional teachers coming in and giving traditional prayers. I've never seen anyone turned away from a church because of their traditional spirituality. All the way around, I've seen alot of respect, but I also see people who are narrow minded put down others, on both sides, and what usually results is a group of people who are confused and lost, and our people dont need any of that. We have big hearts and broader minds that allow for many different ways of thinking.

                            I just wanted to comment on younger people associating Spirituality with powwows. I think there is a danger in that because that could prevent an actual bond with their true spirituality. They might think that the spiritual aspects present at powwows are replacements for the true cermonies that could help them become whole and complete in spiritual living. It's also concerning that people as young as 15 are declaring themselves Set as far as their spirituality, because NONE of us can ever learn and grow enough, especially in traditional learnings. The Lakota people call it Ikceya Wicasa, which means Common Man....humble and unknowing of all things. THAT is what we should be striving for. To be humble and acknowledge that there are things, and always will be things, that we dont know. Even our Elders and our Teachers don't know it all. Young people need to more open to learning and growing....otherwise they stay where they are...hmmm.....that might answer alot of questions about why so many of our people have a hard time "growing up". Used to be only wasicu people griped about their young people thinking they knew it all......
                            Ipsica Waci
                            Wicahpi Eyoyambya Olowan


                            • #74
                              Mixing medicine is when you're politically correct with your belief to appease others, some preachers call it synergy. Like in Brazil and parts of Lousiana, when I was Catholic, we used to say Catholic by day and voodoo by night in some towns
                              Civilzation has been thrust upon me..and it has not added one whit to my love for truth, honesty, and generosity Chief Luther Standing Bear


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by **First Lady**
                                i got a question....

                                what's the main reason for going to "CHURCH"?

                                what's the main reason for going to a POWWOW?

                                i've prayed at both but i didn't go to a powwow cause i wanted to pray...but i've been to church...cause i wanted to pray! anyway...

                                theres the difference in my heart...
                                The main reason to go to either one, to me, is one in the same: To gather with other's that believe the same way you do and worship, fellowship, and learn.
                                "Riches from the heart can not be stolen."


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