Besides White Peeps That Powwow...

[One Hot Mama]

When I was growing up here in Tennessee(born 1960), there were no powwows. Didn't see my first one until age 18 when I moved to Fort Hall ID, on the Shoshone-Bannock rez. My adopted dad was a tribal member, so I had cousins there. I learned some of the ways and- being raised traditional in my own culture- respected my host family by remembering that I was a guest.

I didn't dance at the powwows, altho I did at the lodge meetings. I DID enjoy playing handgame, tho. When my Sho-Ban family had a sweat or NAC meeting, I went to help out(cook, run errands, carry water, watch kids, etc). If I had married a tribal member, then I would have sought to be taught those ways so that my children would grow up in a home where the traditional culture was distinct and strong. However, the idiot I got involved with- and yes I was pretty stupid about men when I was 18- was one of those morons who bragged about being NDN while pissing all over themselves in public while drunk or high. We had no children(thank God), and I moved on sadder and wiser.

So many are now mixed-blood, but people DO NOT come in parts. If they choose to go with the Native culture, they should be welcomed and instructed in the proper ways as they are not mere wannabe's. The making of regalia and the dances are sacred things with a great many lessons involved, and it is a process that often takes several years if it is to be done properly. The learning involved is transmission of the culture in the proper, respectful way, and the relationship that develops between the teacher and the learner is part of that proper order.

Yeah, there's also social dances and games we do for fun, but still there's proepr etiquette involved.

I believe that even wannabe's should be pulled aside and at least talked to about respecting things- if they listen, fine, if not then escort them out or ignore them.

Our traditional cultures have alot of saving graces, for us certainly, but also for others. Can you imagine if we truly walk in the Ways, the model we can provide for those folks who don't have that good Road in their personal/family/ community culture? If there is a revival on the rez, where people are turning around again to walk humbly with Creator in the ways passed down thru the ancestors, being healed from substance abuse, domestic violence and abusive behaviors, ignorance and apathy( learned helplessness), and all the gossip/jealousy stuff that we tear ourselves apart with, and we became the strong, honest, compassionate, wisdom-seeking, spiritually upright people our ancestors hoped we would be, can you imagine how folks would be blown away? Heck, I'm NDN and I'd be blown away!

People should take pride in their own people's culture, and if they're not proud then they need to really examine themselves and their culture and figure out why. We all should respect each other's cultures and respect those boundaries that are there. I'm not Lakota or Dine', and do not follow those ways, but I respect them and rejoice with my brothers and sisters who are. My dad's people are Scottish, and I often wear a tartan sash with my regalia to honor that part of who I am, and I go to Scottish cultural functions. I DO NOT try to pass myself off as Scottish, and folks there have no pick with my being Native. I respect the culture and the people respect me for that, and we all have a good time.

When a non-Indian tries to emulate my people's culture, I try to find out why and at least talk to the person about who they are and where they come from, and explain why it isn't proper to be a wannabe NDN, and how they can be a friend to NDN people in a respectful way. Gotta admit I'm not always successful, and it is often SOOOO frustrating trying to talk with somebody who doesn't want to hear what is being said. But I owe it to them and to my people to keep trying.

There are ALOT of lost souls out there looking for something real to believe in. The Creator is the maker of us all and there for every person and people, and He gave to every people the way HE wanted them to relate to Him. That's the real thing they're looking for, and as a fellow human being we each have a responsibility to help our lost brothers find their way home, even if their path is a different one than ours.

[trob226]

Lakota, Sleeping Bear, I've thought of an example I can describe about how I feel about this subject. I grew up in Baltimore, a very Roman Catholic city in those days. All my friends were Roman Catholic, which I was not (raisedLutheran, but no real family background in it and I never really got into Christianity). The Roman Catholics had many mysteries and rituals that I did not understand and was not permitted to know about, and my friends could not tell me about. It didn't matter to me. They were still my friends, we still shared some values that were common to their religion and my non-religion. I feel the same way about my Indian friends and their spiritualism. There are mysteries I have no right to know, and that's as it should be. there are things we have in common, and we can share them, and that's as it should be.

[Sleeping Bear]

I think that the wish that "NDN" culture can become a large part of the American Culture is not only NOT proper, but it is something that most tribes have tried to prevent from happening through out the years. From what I have witnessed and heard for years is that our tribes do not want to be come part of the big melting pot that is supposedly America, because to do that means to give out and share, and watch our own very distinct cultures and languages disintegrate over the years.

Giving and sharing wisdom leads to it's disintigration? That's a new one on me.

In my own tribe (Oglala Sioux Tribe), we are facing a HUGE challenge to retain our own language, because of the assimilation process that we are just now turning out backs on. Fortunately for us, we have a new generation of children who are actually seeking and FINDING guidance to learn and retain our culture and our language. Our elders and leaders need to stay home and teach our kids and families BEFORE they go out and try to educate the "sympathetics", and the hobbyists, and the new age people who want to incorporate "NDN" culture into their own beliefs.

Absolutely. I applaud those efforts. Do you object to others learning from you? Sorry. Didn't mean to steal your wisdom.

People dont realize, or if they do, they dont respect, the fact that our cultures and our spiritual beliefs are meant to stand alone, and sustain our people throughout the years.

I mean no disrespect, but that description sounds like you are saying your culture is too fragile to withstand contact with others. Surely you don't mean that.

We never NEEDED to assimliate other cultures, but we often did out of respect for other tribes who might have intermarried with our own.

Good for you.

So, it's not a good thing at all that America needs our cultures and our beliefs and our spirituality to identify it's self.

Needs? How about values?

I think America has taken enough, already, don't you? Or are you maybe one of the many who just refuse to listen and respect that maybe you DON"T have a place in our cultures, and that maybe interference might be a contributing factor to our almost overwhelming struggle to maintain our hold on all that is left to us, our identities?

Do I sound like I'm not listening? What have I taken from you?
If you want me to leave the forum, tell me.

Just because Non-natives are searching for whatever they are searching for at powwows and ceremonies, does NOT mean that we have to appreciate your interest in US, and it does not mean that the majority of us has to like the fact that you might have found a person or two willing to take you in and teach you "NDN" ways...lol...

What? Are your pow wows private? I had no idea. Your lack of appreciation is noted. Wasn't expecting it, but noted. Who has taken me in?

How many German and Norwegian sites do you visit and share with? How proficient are you in those languages? What kind of spirituality do they offer you?

Ich spreche deutsch, aber ich spreche nicht gern mit der deutsch. I am also a member of the Sons of Norway where I am trying to learn more of that culture. So what exactly is your point? If you want me to leave, just come out and say it. Your protestations of cultural contamination don't seem very genuine, considering they are expounded in a public forum.

And BTW, trob, you and I are in complete agreement. Thanks for understanding what I meant, and backing me up.

[trob226]

I think that the wish that "NDN" culture can become a large part of the American Culture is not only NOT proper, but it is something that most tribes have tried to prevent from happening through out the years. From what I have witnessed and heard for years is that our tribes do not want to be come part of the big melting pot that is supposedly America, because to do that means to give out and share, and watch our own very distinct cultures and languages disintegrate over the years.
In my own tribe (Oglala Sioux Tribe), we are facing a HUGE challenge to retain our own language, because of the assimilation process that we are just now turning out backs on. Fortunately for us, we have a new generation of children who are actually seeking and FINDING guidance to learn and retain our culture and our language. Our elders and leaders need to stay home and teach our kids and families BEFORE they go out and try to educate the "sympathetics", and the hobbyists, and the new age people who want to incorporate "NDN" culture into their own beliefs.
People dont realize, or if they do, they dont respect, the fact that our cultures and our spiritual beliefs are meant to stand alone, and sustain our people throughout the years. We never NEEDED to assimliate other cultures, but we often did out of respect for other tribes who might have intermarried with our own. So, it's not a good thing at all that America needs our cultures and our beliefs and our spirituality to identify it's self. I think America has taken enough, already, don't you? Or are you maybe one of the many who just refuse to listen and respect that maybe you DON"T have a place in our cultures, and that maybe interference might be a contributing factor to our almost overwhelming struggle to maintain our hold on all that is left to us, our identities?
Just because Non-natives are searching for whatever they are searching for at powwows and ceremonies, does NOT mean that we have to appreciate your interest in US, and it does not mean that the majority of us has to like the fact that you might have found a person or two willing to take you in and teach you "NDN" ways...lol...How many German and Norwegian sites do you visit and share with? How proficient are you in those languages? What kind of spirituality do they offer you?

I'm not sure Sleeping Bear meant as much "assimilation" as you fear here (but Sleeping Bear will have to say). I have no desire to see the US take on Lakota or any Indian spirituality or any part of the culture that is that deep and personal, but I would like to see Americans become more like Indians in regard to the importance that family and community play in their daily lives. I understand, given history and current "new agism," why you're upset at the thought of non-Indian America taking over Indian spiritualism, though. For myself, I don't want to know anything I'm not entitled to know about cultures I'm not part of. Doesn't bother me, and any Indian or member of any other culture can tell me I'm straying into areas I don't belong in and I'll go away.

[pow wow guest]

Well said Lakota.

[Lakota Wiyan]

You make a good point, Trob, but I think that what you are describing is something of a virtual culture that is the lowest common culture that is shared by all, or most, Americans. When I speak of my culture, I am referring to my German and Norwegian cultures. They are quite rich, and full of family and friend-oriented practices, as are the ndn cultures. Non-native america simply hasn't had enough time to build much of a culture, certainly not one that can compare with cultures that have existed and evolved over thousands of years. Let's remember that we are not comparing apples to apples here. American culture is way behind it's elder brothers, but it does continue to evolve and develop. I hope that ndn culture can become a large part of the American Culture, as I think is proper. Til then, let's let the little ones learn, and hope they grow into good adults. Whatcha' think?

I think that the wish that "NDN" culture can become a large part of the American Culture is not only NOT proper, but it is something that most tribes have tried to prevent from happening through out the years. From what I have witnessed and heard for years is that our tribes do not want to be come part of the big melting pot that is supposedly America, because to do that means to give out and share, and watch our own very distinct cultures and languages disintegrate over the years.
In my own tribe (Oglala Sioux Tribe), we are facing a HUGE challenge to retain our own language, because of the assimilation process that we are just now turning out backs on. Fortunately for us, we have a new generation of children who are actually seeking and FINDING guidance to learn and retain our culture and our language. Our elders and leaders need to stay home and teach our kids and families BEFORE they go out and try to educate the "sympathetics", and the hobbyists, and the new age people who want to incorporate "NDN" culture into their own beliefs.
People dont realize, or if they do, they dont respect, the fact that our cultures and our spiritual beliefs are meant to stand alone, and sustain our people throughout the years. We never NEEDED to assimliate other cultures, but we often did out of respect for other tribes who might have intermarried with our own. So, it's not a good thing at all that America needs our cultures and our beliefs and our spirituality to identify it's self. I think America has taken enough, already, don't you? Or are you maybe one of the many who just refuse to listen and respect that maybe you DON"T have a place in our cultures, and that maybe interference might be a contributing factor to our almost overwhelming struggle to maintain our hold on all that is left to us, our identities?
Just because Non-natives are searching for whatever they are searching for at powwows and ceremonies, does NOT mean that we have to appreciate your interest in US, and it does not mean that the majority of us has to like the fact that you might have found a person or two willing to take you in and teach you "NDN" ways...lol...How many German and Norwegian sites do you visit and share with? How proficient are you in those languages? What kind of spirituality do they offer you?

[Mato Winyan]

Things on the powwow trail are sure changing and it's really not safe to make ....... I'll call em assumptions ( instead of biggoted racist judgements). The face of the people that powwow are changing as there are more and more mixed natives dancing.

[Ahinawake]

I've seen black people and hispanic people (they spoke Spanish and were wearing shorts and t-shirts, so I'm assuming they weren't ndns) dance, but never Asian people or anything.

[Sleeping Bear]

If the thought police were watching I would be in the electric chair years ago.,

You and me both, Brother, you and me both...

[billyjoejimbob]

If the thought police were watching I would be in the electric chair years ago.,

[trob226]

You make a good point, Trob, but I think that what you are describing is something of a virtual culture that is the lowest common culture that is shared by all, or most, Americans. When I speak of my culture, I am referring to my German and Norwegian cultures. They are quite rich, and full of family and friend-oriented practices, as are the ndn cultures. Non-native america simply hasn't had enough time to build much of a culture, certainly not one that can compare with cultures that have existed and evolved over thousands of years. Let's remember that we are not comparing apples to apples here. American culture is way behind it's elder brothers, but it does continue to evolve and develop. I hope that ndn culture can become a large part of the American Culture, as I think is proper. Til then, let's let the little ones learn, and hope they grow into good adults. Whatcha' think?

I think you're right. I don't know anything about the old European cultures - not part of my upbringing, although I am in touch with distant Irish-American cousins who were raised REALLY Irish and the family orientation is definitely there. But "American culture" is an adolescent. I hope it learns and grows, too.

[Sleeping Bear]

WOW, I cant even insult MYSELF on here.

The thought police are watching you...

[Sleeping Bear]

You have to admit, Sleeping Bear, that white American culture is kind of - well, money oriented and somewhat lacking when it comes to those values that don't have anything to do with money. What does it say when TV public service announcements have to tell us it's a good thing to have dinner with your family? We might talk family values, but the culture itself doesn't promote them. I'm not trashing all white culture - all cultures have good and bad points, and I'm a heck of alot more white than Indian - but white American culture does seem to be the most commercial.

You make a good point, Trob, but I think that what you are describing is something of a virtual culture that is the lowest common culture that is shared by all, or most, Americans. When I speak of my culture, I am referring to my German and Norwegian cultures. They are quite rich, and full of family and friend-oriented practices, as are the ndn cultures. Non-native america simply hasn't had enough time to build much of a culture, certainly not one that can compare with cultures that have existed and evolved over thousands of years. Let's remember that we are not comparing apples to apples here. American culture is way behind it's elder brothers, but it does continue to evolve and develop. I hope that ndn culture can become a large part of the American Culture, as I think is proper. Til then, let's let the little ones learn, and hope they grow into good adults. Whatcha' think?

[billyjoejimbob]

WOW, I cant even insult MYSELF on here.

[trob226]

Y'know, BJJB, self-hatred isn't that much more attractive than bigotry. I'm sorry if you feel alienated from your culture, but take it easy on us po' white folks. I like the ndn way too, but to trash my own culture does no one any good here, does it?

You have to admit, Sleeping Bear, that white American culture is kind of - well, money oriented and somewhat lacking when it comes to those values that don't have anything to do with money. What does it say when TV public service announcements have to tell us it's a good thing to have dinner with your family? We might talk family values, but the culture itself doesn't promote them. I'm not trashing all white culture - all cultures have good and bad points, and I'm a heck of alot more white than Indian - but white American culture does seem to be the most commercial.