Are we Lamanites? Mormon myth vs. NDN history

[Wakalapi]

According to some Mormon sources, we are Lamanites, descendants of Laman the son of the prophet Lehi. The story goes that the descendants of two of Lehi's sons, the Lamanite and the Nephites came to America around 600BC. The Nephites were godly, white people. The Lamanites became barbarous, savage, rebellious people who were therefor marked with brown, ruddy skin as a sign of God's displeasure. However, Lamanites could become white people again through acceptance of the gospel and adoption of diligent faithful living.

"the people of Nephi did seek diligently to restore the Lamanites unto the true faith in God. But our labors were vain; their hatred was fixed, and they were led by their evil nature that they became wild, and ferocious, and a blood-thirsty people, full of idolatry and filthiness; feeding upon beasts of prey; dwelling in tents, and wandering about in the wilderness with a short skin girdle about their loins and their heads shaven; and their skill was in the bow, and in the cimeter, and the ax. And many of them did eat nothing save it was raw meat; and they were continually seeking to destroy us"(Enos 1: 20).

Descriptions used in the Book of Mormon:

1 Nephi 11:13 (Mary) ". . . she was exceedingly fair and white."
1 Nephi 12:23 (Prophecy of Lamanites after Christ) ". . . became a dark, and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations."
1 Nephi 13:15 (Gentiles) ". . . they were white, and exceedingly fair and beautiful, like unto my people [Nephites] before they were slain."
2 Nephi 5:21 ". . . a sore cursing . . . as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."
2 Nephi 30:6 (Prophecy to Lamanites) ". . . scales of darkness shall begin to fall . . . they shall be a white and delightsome people." (Changed to pure and delightsome in 1981)
Jacob 3:5 (Lamanites cursed) ". . .whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins. . ."
Jacob 3:8-9 ". . .their skins will be whiter than yours . . . revile no more against them because of the darkness of their skins . . ."
Alma 3:6 ". . . skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion. . ."
Alma 3:8 (Cursed) ". . .that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren . . .that they might not mix . . ."
Alma 3:9 ". . . whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed."
Alma 3:14 (Lamanites cursed) ". . . set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed. . ."
Alma 3:19 (Amlicites cursed) ". . . brought upon themselves the curse ..."
Alma 23:18 ". . . [Lamanites] did open a correspondence with them [Nephites] and the curse of God did no more follow them."
3 Nephi 2:14-16 ". . . Lamanites who had united with the Nephites were numbered among the Nephites; And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites . . . became exceedingly fair . . ."
3 Nephi 19:25, 30 (Disciples) ". . . they were as white as the countenance and also the garments of Jesus; and behold the whiteness thereof did exceed all the whiteness . . . nothing upon earth so white as the whiteness thereof . . . they were white, even as Jesus."
Mormon 5:15 (Prophecy about Lamanites) ". . .shall become a dark, a filthy, and a loathsome people, beyond the description of that which ever hath been amongst us . . ."
Mormon 5:17 "They were once a delightsome people . . ."

Next time an LDS missionary knocks at your door, you might want to ask them to explain this.

[Kiwehnzii]

Why are there tanning salons?

Are there any in Utah?

[trob226]

Why? Who needs to explain fantasy fiction?

[NorthofAda]

Why? Who needs to explain fantasy fiction?

AMEN to that!

BTW, if Indians are "dark and loathsome," what does that make blacks?

While I can appreciate the Mormon commitment to family and clean living, I didn't realize their book had such racist verbage. So, the whiter you are, the holier? Nicole Kidman must be right up there next to the angel Moroni, then, because she's about as white as white can get...

[CandaePrincess]

I had some Mormons try to talk to me just last week. This neighbor lady that lives next to us who's native is Mormon. I told them she doesn't like me and good luck with the whole Mormon thing. They were saying, it's a book about your people. I told them I'll stick with Christianity with a heavy dose of NAC. *L*

[trob226]

I had some Mormons try to talk to me just last week. This neighbor lady that lives next to us who's native is Mormon. I told them she doesn't like me and good luck with the whole Mormon thing. They were saying, it's a book about your people. I told them I'll stick with Christianity with a heavy dose of NAC. *L*

Tell her what my husband told some Mormon tenants he had that were trying to convert him - "If I can't drink tea (or coffee), I ain't going."

Curiously, though, Mormon is rising in popularity. I don't get it. If you have to leave your brains at the entrance to the temple, I ain't going.

[trob226]

AMEN to that!

BTW, if Indians are "dark and loathsome," what does that make blacks?

While I can appreciate the Mormon commitment to family and clean living, I didn't realize their book had such racist verbage. So, the whiter you are, the holier? Nicole Kidman must be right up there next to the angel Moroni, then, because she's about as white as white can get...

I'm pretty white, too, so I must be really angelic, too. And you don't want to be as white as I am? How racist of you! (YES, SARCASM VERY INTENTIONAL)

[trob226]

I'm sorry for all my sarcasm in this thread, but come on, how can anybody take Mormon seriously? Explain that one to me.

[little bird]

Who just KNEW I'd jump in here?!
Well....even though the Mormans have a pretty good geneology site: www.onegreatfamily.com
They are a cult. I don't believe their teaching AT ALL! Be careful folks!
<a href="http://www.CommentYou.com/Images/hellokittygraphics/"><img src="http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y41/Freefreq/hellokittygraphics/images/hellokitty16.gif" alt="CommentYou.com is your One Stop Shop"></a><br /><center><a style="padding:3px;background:#000;color:#00ADEF;f ont-family:tahoma;font-size:11px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;border:3px double #00ADEF" href="http://www.CommentYou.com" target="_blank">Make your Comments HEARD at COMMENTYOU.com</a></center>

[Singing Otter]

If you guys saw the mormon episode of South Park you'd know why I'm laughing.

[Wakalapi]

All Mormons who've ever come to my door, even after being inundated with what the original Hebrew behind a (mainstream bible) verse actually means, or with facts about NDN history, always have the same pat we-always-win answer: "We've prayed about it in Jesus' name, and the Holy Spirit confirmed that our church' beliefs are right."

I really don't care if a Mormon is offended by this (they deserve it): but the are literally the most simple-minded people I have ever met.

They follow a religion invented in 1830 by one man, Joseph Smith, who lived in modern times, whose entire story is based on his claim to finding golden plates written in "Reformed Egyptian" buried in a rural New York hillside, which he then translated by wearing magic spectacles called the "Urim and Thumim". The orim v'thummim (Hebrew) means "lights and perfections" and were objects kept in a pocket behind the Israelite Priests's breastplate, there is no indication that they resembled anything even close to a pair of glasses; the description given by some Rabbi's say these objects were used like dice to determine God's answer to a formally asked question.

Why is this important? Because you cannot change a population's attitude toward us (when their attitude and their votes might affect our treaty rights, government to government relationships, etc.) until you change the one thing their mindset will always be based on, no matter what: their theology. One man drew them in less than 200 years ago; now they are bent to deliver their "truth" to US so (I'm not really saying waste any time on it but) I just think it would be funnier than hell if it was us that delivered the real truth back to them and their religion got destroyed one member at a time (realizing the truth, leaving their cult).

The coffee industry would thank you for it. (Ah, my real motivation comes out ennit )

There are rumors that the original text that eventually became the Book of Mormon and the account of how it was "translated", was actually STOLEN (plagiarized) by print shop apprentice Joseph Smith from a very early, pre-released manuscript of "Leaves of Grass" by Walt Whitman, which would eventually be published 25 years later, in 1855.

http://www.jefflindsay.com/bomsource.shtml

[eap7]

I was in Salt Lake City a few years ago and went to see the free movie in the LDS temple that is about how Jesus came to the Indians. They were non-descript South American Indians with pyramids and everything, and in the movie, there are 2 factions- one who want to follow Jesus, and who recognize that they're Lamanites, and the other faction who are savage pagans who do human sacrifices. Of course, Jesus comes back to the civilizations and causes a volcano to erupt and an earthquake which topples over the Indian statues and kills the nonbelievers.

To me, it was a really ridiculous movie that was soooo long and overdramatic. Plus, everyone was speaking English, the Indians and Jesus alike, and Jesus was totally white. But the rest of the audience were sobbing away. They even handed out boxes of tissue before the movie started. The Mormons all really got into it. Then there was a discussion afterwards, where the 2 missionaries (who were both about 18) informed the audience that if Indians or any dark skinned person converts to the LDS religion, in 200 years their great-great-grandchildren or whatever will....dum dum dum...turn white and therefore not be Lamanites and against God anymore! All the Mormons got really excited about that.

It was so sad because this ideology is what is fueling all the white Mormons to be missionaries in Latin America, Africa, and other places, and making the "religion" grow like someone else mentioned...

[NorthofAda]

They follow a religion invented in 1830 by one man, Joseph Smith, who lived in modern times, whose entire story is based on his claim to finding golden plates written in "Reformed Egyptian" buried in a rural New York hillside, which he then translated by wearing magic spectacles called the "Urim and Thumim". The orim v'thummim (Hebrew) means "lights and perfections" and were objects kept in a pocket behind the Israelite Priests's breastplate, there is no indication that they resembled anything even close to a pair of glasses; the description given by some Rabbi's say these objects were used like dice to determine God's answer to a formally asked question.[/url]

You're right on target there... so is Little Bird - Mormon = Cult.

[Wakalapi]

But the rest of the audience were sobbing away. They even handed out boxes of tissue before the movie started.

OMG !!

Please tell me you're not serious!!

[trob226]

OMG !!

Please tell me you're not serious!!

I can believe it, and if they had handed out poisoned Kool-Aid, they'd have drunk it, too.