Missunderstandings

[lbgood]

Are you saying your girlfriend doesn't excite you any more and you spend your time on powwows.com going over old threads to keep excitement in your life?

Oh wait...I think I misunderstood your writings! LOL

[Joe's Dad]

I concur with Elo Janis. Powwows used to be fun. But it has turned into a place of trolls and thugs, and now I see why so many belong and so few show up. It's become a questionable use of my time.

That last sentence that Elo Janis writes should make every Indian here think.

Why do I always want to say 'doe cat'? lol

This is in no way argumentative. I would like to say a few words on this sentence.

I agree. "Powwows used to be fun". In the 9+ years I've been coming to this site, I've made new friends, reacquainted with old friends from the powwows trail. Learned many new craft ideas and shared some of my ideas.

There were people like WhoMe, who would start a thread that would make you think hard before you wrote. There was badmaninc, Brown-Eyed Gurl and Colonah C, who you could find in the NeverEnding Game thread at any time of day or night. There was Ruthless, who could keep you laughing with her wit and charm. There was ojibwaysweetie who would shared her knowledge of the jingle dress, as much as she could. There was powwowbum49, who makes some of the best roaches in the land, sharing a wealth of information on outfit making. Many a person has used many of his tutorials he has shared with us here. There was, and still is, our very own wyo_rose, who has shared sooo much with all of us during the years. We have the likes of Furiosly Fancy, who could come up with games that would last 200-300 posts long. We'd come on here to see if anyone had solved his riddle. hahaaa People like yaahl, lbgood, wardancer, and even our own Zeke.

I could go on for hours of the people who have come and gone that made this a great site. People like Angel Feather, nt_inuk (Hmmmm), the sweet and beautiful middle of the sky. People like stillrezin, ntown native, Lisa Ironmaker, and of course, the most important powwows.commer, Paul G. Without his foresight of creating a website to bring those of, and those interested, the Native culture, we would not be here discussing misunderstandings.

The one thing, the one thread, all the people mentioned have, is the love to powwow. From Morongo in the Southwest to Schemitzin in the Northeast. From Omak in the Northwest to the Seminole powwow in the southeast. These are people who have braved the elements (it gets cold as heck sleeping in a tent in Arlee. lol), who have driven hours, sometimes days, to powwow. Who have spent countless hours making outfits to powwow. Who have shared feathers, beadwork, buckskin, etc. because their love to powwow.

Why are these people not here any more? Evolution of life, evolution of powwows.com? Who knows? I'm not so sure this has become a site of trolls and thugs. I'm thinking it's more of a site where people think camping is 'staying at the Holiday Inn'.

So you see docat, I (and I'm sure many others who have been on here 8, 9 , 10+ years) will agree with your statement.

"Powwows used to be fun".

Note: No wild animals like lbgood, Toolbox or Grits & Beans have been harmed in writing this post. They do enough of that to each other in the 'Redhorse Cafe' thread!

[lbgood]

Note: No wild animals like lbgood, Toolbox or Grits & Beans have been harmed in writing this post. They do enough of that to each other in the 'Redhorse Cafe' thread!

[Zeke]

Recently I had a life changing event in my life that changed my outlook drastically. The heart attack I endured and the subsequent installation of a pacemaker cause me to look at things in a totally different light.

In sum, you had a "come to Jesus moment" and reverted to a romanticized personal vision of Nativeness you'd experienced as a child.

Then, you expected others to perceive things the same way, became obviously threatened when that not did occur, and accused folks of being "bullies and thugs."

Finally, you're taking your ball and going home because the reality of being Native in a Brave New World is too much for you to deal with.

Let's see, is this the six hundred and forty-eighth or six hundred forty-ninth time this scenario has played out?

I've, actually, thought about this pretty hard: I believe Native folks are different than they were just ten years ago, even on this site designed around powwows.

That's probably worthy of a different thread...

[Spiritflight]

Errr.... I don't know how this fits in now but it's still a nice song.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PyxLaHmOaYM?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[muskrat_skull]

I'm composing in word and cutting and pasting it. I'm not saving in html though. And it is office.

For some reason some formatting code, like a huge amount, came through on one of your posts. didn't on any others that I've quoted. I use notepad for that to be on the safe side, I've had word kind of screw up my posts on other forums. It was huge. ms office and word are so buggy!

[muskrat_skull]

This whole thing is just too incredibly stupid to deal with. I have better use for my time than to have to defend myself against ridiculously insecure and negative people.
While I am sure there are nice, positive and genuinely sincere people amongst this community...I've pmed with a few of them, it only takes one or two nasty and negative person to ruin it for the rest of the group.
After much thought I have decided not to post here any longer. I will come back to the site for the music portion of powwows.com, but other than that I have no desire to be a part of this nonsensical posting and judging of others that no one has the right to do.
This is merely a place to post opinions and share/exchange ideas yet many are treating it as though it were a life or death battle to the end using mean and negative comments as the ammunition.
Thanks to those who extended hospitality and kindness and to the ones who made such a spectacle over nothing...I have no words for you.
You know, I came on here with the idea that we all share a common background and the thought that it is our responsibility to carry on the pride of having the culture and heritage of our ancestors. That we would all be more understanding and kind to each other...obviously that is not the case.
I just want to make it perfectly clear that I had no intention of being a nasty and combative person whatsoever. The things I asked about and commented on were all done in an innocent manner. I do not sit in front of my computer thinking, well if I post this it will get this person upset or if I comment on this thread I am only doing it to cause controversy. What can I say that will cause friction on the forum and get others to become involved in a battle of words?
I really did not have those thoughts at all.
Recently I had a life changing event in my life that changed my outlook drastically. The heart attack I endured and the subsequent installation of a pacemaker cause me to look at things in a totally different light. I now seem to realize things that are important in my life and those things that are not.
I am seeking to create only positive situations for myself. As it is now, posting here is not a positive thing for me to be engaged in. When I found the music here I felt so good and in a strange way kind of 'repaired'. It is hard to put into words that which I am feeling so I would do best to leave it at that.
I have no problems with anyone on this site at all. I am sorry if you took my comments and read nothing but negativity from them. That was not my intention whatsoever. NEVER.
Good luck to all and I hope that all of you find time in your lives to enjoy even the smallest of things that the Great Spirit puts in front of us. I also hope that you are able to help to minimalize the negativity that is all around us and that you can contribute nothing but positivity which is needed to keep our culture and heritage pure.
While many in the past have sought to destroy us with their actions and to cause our way of life to cease to exist, we have always remained strong and stayed true to our culture. That culture requires us to be united and to never discount anyone's progress or place in life. Don't be tempted in any way to join our oppressors and try your best to treat each other with the respect and dignity we all deserve.
Peace to all and I hope you each enjoy everything that the Great Spirit offers to us. Be kind to each other as we have only ourselves to keep our heritage alive.

I am sorry to see you go, I can only say wth are we doing to each other? I really don't want to talk about this but feel i must. I understand as I face the end of my life, it is a time to get things done and see that things get passed along as they can and the next generation of family is taken care of. Not doing this in the past has destroyed our family.

This preparation is not an Indian thing persay, but a family thing. It is not a "come to Jesus moment" but the realization that life is short, some people's time comes before others, and we all have things we wish and need to do. And some of us need healing and reconciliation and peace to extend our lives and give us strength so we can accomplish what we need or want to, and for others who look on and say, you are romanticizing things, you are way off base. Sometimes its because things were so messed up that we need to bring balance with good things and peacefulness. Everyone in the world comes to this point sometime.

So I can say, you go ahead and look on, Zeke, while the rest of us live life, and you can shout about things and judge, but if you had a life, maybe you wouldn't see things that way. You can be reckless with your strength. Your time will come though and you will understand then, and hopefully you will be treated with more compassion. And maybe it happens so often here because you make it happen and people just finally get sick of it and agree. Hardly winning. Man powwows used to be fun.

[Zeke]

I am sorry to see you go, I can only say wth are we doing to each other? I really don't want to talk about this but feel i must. I understand as I face the end of my life, it is a time to get things done and see that things get passed along as they can and the next generation of family is taken care of. Not doing this in the past has destroyed our family.

No. It's changed your family. That's NOT "destroyed."

This preparation is not an Indian thing persay, but a family thing. It is not a "come to Jesus moment" but the realization that life is short, some people's time comes before others, and we all have things we wish and need to do. And some of us need healing and reconciliation and peace to extend our lives and give us strength so we can accomplish what we need or want to, and for others who look on and say, you are romanticizing things, you are way off base. Sometimes its because things were so messed up that we need to bring balance with good things and peacefulness. Everyone in the world comes to this point sometime.

And the answer is to STOP being romanticist and be real. Don't even lie to yourself. There's nothing harder, I assure you.

So I can say, you go ahead and look on, Zeke, while the rest of us live life, and you can shout about things and judge, but if you had a life, maybe you wouldn't see things that way. You can be reckless with your strength. Your time will come though and you will understand then, and hopefully you will be treated with more compassion. And maybe it happens so often here because you make it happen and people just finally get sick of it and agree. Hardly winning. Man powwows used to be fun.

I assure you, I have a life and am responsible for everything that occurs in it. I do NOT hide the truth from myself, not anymore. Not even when I don't like it. ("Compassion" would have been someone helping me locate truth, sooner.)

The only thing I "make happen" is -- on a good day -- someone actually thinks about what they're saying, doing or believing. That folks may "get sick of that" shows their level of personal growth.

There are PLENTY of folks, here and elsewhere, who aren't bothered at all. Only those with preconceived and romanticist notions tend to ever have an issue...

"Reckless with my strength?" Great phrase but I've been there, before. In many ways, I'm as rigidly an analytical person as you're ever going to find. (Reckless? Hah!) Does that make me smart or anything? No more than the average human. All it really means is I am a disciplined thinker not tied to any particular ideology.

There are those who would presume it makes me non-Native in bearing.

Perhaps.

But, without making a comparison, I'll bet Pontiac, Tecumseh, Crazy Horse, Chief Joseph, Sitting Bull, etc., were all pretty aggressive and analytical for their day. (It's how they survived.)

Folks that romanticized a way of life that no longer worked? Well, they died.

Powwows can be fun. Don't pretend they're traditional or meaningful to our continued existence.

[muskrat_skull]

No. It's changed your family. That's NOT "destroyed."



And the answer is to STOP being romanticist and be real. Don't even lie to yourself. There's nothing harder, I assure you.



I assure you, I have a life and am responsible for everything that occurs in it. I do NOT hide the truth from myself, not anymore. Not even when I don't like it. ("Compassion" would have been someone helping me locate truth, sooner.)

The only thing I "make happen" is -- on a good day -- someone actually thinks about what they're saying, doing or believing. That folks may "get sick of that" shows their level of personal growth.

There are PLENTY of folks, here and elsewhere, who aren't bothered at all. Only those with preconceived and romanticist notions tend to ever have an issue...

"Reckless with my strength?" Great phrase but I've been there, before. In many ways, I'm as rigidly an analytical person as you're ever going to find. (Reckless? Hah!) Does that make me smart or anything? No more than the average human. All it really means is I am a disciplined thinker not tied to any particular ideology.

There are those who would presume it makes me non-Native in bearing.

Perhaps.

But, without making a comparison, I'll bet Pontiac, Tecumseh, Crazy Horse, Chief Joseph, Sitting Bull, etc., were all pretty aggressive and analytical for their day. (It's how they survived.)

Folks that romanticized a way of life that no longer worked? Well, they died.

Powwows can be fun. Don't pretend they're traditional or meaningful to our continued existence.

We aren't living back in those days, but now, and I believe we can live a peaceful life if we so choose, Indian or not, and not have to worry about dying because of it. we don't have to be like our ancestors because of what they did for us back then and through the 1960s and 1970s on to today. And I haven't heard of anyone changing their minds on whether Indians are good and deserve to live and have a nation and so forth in the middle of a war with them. Only during peace, however dicey it may be, does anyone get a chance to talk.

My family was totally destroyed by a failure to pass on heritage, they became dark skinned people without a race, who neither spoke spanish nor any language of their heritage, they became lost and searching people, alcohol was their culture, a central feature in photos and even the labels under them. My favorite one is "even the mothers drank!" as they are all drinking during prohibition.
They lived in shame of their ignorance, of their drunkenness, and being cut off from any culture but getting drunk.

I can't blame my grandmother though, something bad happened when she was young and she was pregnant at 16 and then married some abusive guy who didn't let her tell anyone about her heritage. Because of the alcohol, being poor, and the fact they were not Christian church goers, they were afraid of losing the kids all the time. At least I think that is why. could be boarding school crap, who knows. la-tee-da and so it goes. It did destroy my family. Most are dead from alcohol and smoking related illness and the ones alive never knew anything and never cared they were too busy partying, and they are on their way out.

It does destroy people, maybe not you, but some. Some need it, just like some white people need church, they just do. We aren't all the same. And not just people like you are valuable, we all are necessary.

You are young and reckless with your strength, we all are when we are young, but we end up much better if we try to look forward and plan rather than always looking back and trying to be what was.

And you know, all the ancestors you mention, it would be so nice to hear about them in a discussion as support of your points sometimes.

Oh and denial or not thinking about your disease is exactly what you need to do when you reach that point where you are on the downslope of life. this is how people get through without freaking out every moment of the day. It is strength. doctors will tell you that you will live much longer and require less attention, and it is the basis of many types of traditional medicine techniques. mind over matter. all sick people are aware we are sick our bodies remind us, but pain is worse if you sit and think about it. Its hardly romanticism. It is survival, as practiced since human existence. Its called sucking it up and going on.

Now I need to go, not feeling so well.

[Zeke]

1. I'm sorry you're not feeling well.
2. You truly have a hard-on about alcohol.
3. Don't blame alcohol, address the abusers.
4. If they're no longer with us, let it go.

As for my "ancestors," I have plenty but it's not as if I need them to validate any points. (Do you? Seriously?) What they did, thought, wanted or believed 100+, or more, years ago isn't authoritative merely because it came from a different time. If you believe it is, that's just another example of romanticizing.

As for being "young and reckless," that would only be true if I bought that sort of crap.

I'm going to smoke a cigar and have a scotch... I do both at powwows.

[muskrat_skull]

1. I'm sorry you're not feeling well.
2. You truly have a hard-on about alcohol.
3. Don't blame alcohol, address the abusers.
4. If they're no longer with us, let it go.

As for my "ancestors," I have plenty but it's not as if I need them to validate any points. (Do you? Seriously?) What they did, thought, wanted or believed 100+, or more, years ago isn't authoritative merely because it came from a different time. If you believe it is, that's just another example of romanticizing.

As for being "young and reckless," that would only be true if I bought that sort of crap.

I'm going to smoke a cigar and have a scotch... I do both at powwows.

I only brought this up because you questioned the destruction aspect. It was destructive for the individuals in my family, I'm not saying all Indians or anything like that. And for what it was, my alcoholic family was better than what I've dealt with from other alcoholics. They were almost functional, it just killed them quick.

I would get over my distaste of alcoholics if I didn't find them to be weak and miserable people while drinking, and if there weren't so many of them around, all the time where I live. everytime I try to "get over it" yep, up pops another one, just as charming as the last.

You brought up ancestors, not me. I'm just sayin' if you're talking about what went on back then, then lets see some of where you are getting your pov from. I just need a little more than I'm right to persuade me.

Enjoy your cigar and *cough syrup, uh* I mean scotch. and not a word about my health again. Its my finely honed meanness and constant denial that keeps me going.

[Spiritflight]

This whole thing is just too incredibly stupid to deal with. I have better use for my time than to have to defend myself against ridiculously insecure and negative people.
While I am sure there are nice, positive and genuinely sincere people amongst this community...I've pmed with a few of them, it only takes one or two nasty and negative person to ruin it for the rest of the group.
After much thought I have decided not to post here any longer. I will come back to the site for the music portion of powwows.com, but other than that I have no desire to be a part of this nonsensical posting and judging of others that no one has the right to do.
This is merely a place to post opinions and share/exchange ideas yet many are treating it as though it were a life or death battle to the end using mean and negative comments as the ammunition.
Thanks to those who extended hospitality and kindness and to the ones who made such a spectacle over nothing...I have no words for you.
You know, I came on here with the idea that we all share a common background and the thought that it is our responsibility to carry on the pride of having the culture and heritage of our ancestors. That we would all be more understanding and kind to each other...obviously that is not the case.
I just want to make it perfectly clear that I had no intention of being a nasty and combative person whatsoever. The things I asked about and commented on were all done in an innocent manner. I do not sit in front of my computer thinking, well if I post this it will get this person upset or if I comment on this thread I am only doing it to cause controversy. What can I say that will cause friction on the forum and get others to become involved in a battle of words?
I really did not have those thoughts at all.
Recently I had a life changing event in my life that changed my outlook drastically. The heart attack I endured and the subsequent installation of a pacemaker cause me to look at things in a totally different light. I now seem to realize things that are important in my life and those things that are not.
I am seeking to create only positive situations for myself. As it is now, posting here is not a positive thing for me to be engaged in. When I found the music here I felt so good and in a strange way kind of 'repaired'. It is hard to put into words that which I am feeling so I would do best to leave it at that.
I have no problems with anyone on this site at all. I am sorry if you took my comments and read nothing but negativity from them. That was not my intention whatsoever. NEVER.
Good luck to all and I hope that all of you find time in your lives to enjoy even the smallest of things that the Great Spirit puts in front of us. I also hope that you are able to help to minimalize the negativity that is all around us and that you can contribute nothing but positivity which is needed to keep our culture and heritage pure.
While many in the past have sought to destroy us with their actions and to cause our way of life to cease to exist, we have always remained strong and stayed true to our culture. That culture requires us to be united and to never discount anyone's progress or place in life. Don't be tempted in any way to join our oppressors and try your best to treat each other with the respect and dignity we all deserve.
Peace to all and I hope you each enjoy everything that the Great Spirit offers to us. Be kind to each other as we have only ourselves to keep our heritage alive.

I am sorry to read about you having had a heart attack. I cannot imagine how terrible such an experience must be. I feel with you as good as possible. And that goes for everyone. Nobody should have to suffer. Nevertheless these things happen, that's part of life. Everybody has go through pains, some are moderate, some are severe. I know - nobody is immune to experiences pains - beginning with birth. But then, shouldn't people concentrate on the good things in life - how small they may appear - for the individual person? If your life is heavy to cope - still - try to find something good in it. This thread turned out to be a vivid discussion about different single opionions and beliefs. That's okay but we shouldn't let the unpleasant words sink in to our substance of beingness, that's hard to do. It's hard not to take things personal when they aren't pleasing. Always easy to take compliments. I still think, everybody has the right to say things in their own ways - the freedom and right of free speech.

Pleasing words aren't always true and truth isn't always pleasing.

Elo Janis, I wouldn't like to see you go - so just take a heart and stay. When quotes are getting hard on you. There may be a reason for that. Perhaps it's a good thing to view what's been said from different angles. Mind's flexibilty. Everyone has their own ways and beliefs and if they feel right to this person, okay, but learning to accept that other people think in different ways and let them have their point of view without letting it affect you in a painful way is something to be learned. Pursuading people having to see things in the same manner as one self will often not work. So try not to take things too personal if they tend to be painful, even if they are directly addressed to you. Everbody has a different upbringing and can only be as one can be (if they are honest and not wearing some kind of mask). Wearing a mask and pretending often is - maybe unconsiously - just for protection. Okay, I intended to write more but I got to go and hope you will stay anyway Elo Janis. - Spiritflight -

[reocurringdream]

While many in the past have sought to destroy us with their actions and to cause our way of life to cease to exist, we have always remained strong and stayed true to our culture. That culture requires us to be united and to never discount anyone's progress or place in life. Don't be tempted in any way to join our oppressors and try your best to treat each other with the respect and dignity we all deserve.
Peace to all and I hope you each enjoy everything that the Great Spirit offers to us. Be kind to each other as we have only ourselves to keep our heritage alive.

You wrote some nice words, and I can see that this is where you really want to be. Sorry to hear about your heart condition, and thanks for sharing. I think alot of what is going on has to do with your health. With a pace-maker it would be hard for you to stay grounded since, in traditional asian medicine, the heart houses the shen. There is no proper translation into english but you can use the word spirit. Your shen will tend to rise or float. Your Liver, blood & qi (no translation, but can use energy) are also effected in your condition. Anger will further exacerbate your health problems. I can't really say too much detail since without proper training its very hard to understand using english. I'd like to just say I think you are probably making the right choice for yourself. Music is good but also make the right choices in what you listen to. Avoid things that overly excite you as it will negatively effect your heart. If possible spend time with nature and developing your spiritual path--some minor ways to help your house of shen.

[Spiritflight]

Is this a misunderstanding or a presumption? Who wrote me a bad rep about me wanting to change subject by posting music vids in threads? Huh? Not my intention to change subjects. The come and go with the flow. People can write whatever they like, doesn't bother me. But not leaving a name and just hitting at the bad rep button and writing something which is presumed about me thinking like that, that's silly. It's this person's thoughts which aren't mine - thinking this or that about me and taking it as right - and then attacking me from behind? Weird. - ahhh... I am bored.

[wyo_rose]

People, if you are going to write long replies please use paragraphs to break it up. I'm not singling anyone out here. When people write long drawn out posts without paragraphs that it can lead to misunderstandings.

I agree! I cannot read all these lengthy rambling in one long paragraph.

Anything over 5 lines needs to be paragraphized.

Not that it makes it any easier to digest, but it is easier to read.