Is Redskins a derogatory term?

[wyo_rose]

Am I not supposed to say "Cherokee" or "Sioux"? How am I supposed to find these things out?

Anywayz, as I've posted before, I think naming sports teams with native inspired names was great...cuz natives KICK @$$ in sports, warfare, all that...

[muskrat_skull]

Not enough and they're being ridiculous in terms of focus.

Every dollar or hour spent on the national stage regarding this topic is one NOT spent on the actual issues that Native people need to address.

Feral cats on Rosebud are more important than Native-themed mascots...

Yes true.

From the first time that the team management was made aware of the racist potential of the name, which, in this day and age, they should've seen as a glaring problem in the first place, they made a decision obviously not to change it. They decided then that they did not care. I'm sure they aren't wasting the time and energy on it.

If they cared, they'd have changed it by now. So those are the kind of people you are supporting. Your decision to support them or not.

[muskrat_skull]

Am I not supposed to say "Cherokee" or "Sioux"? How am I supposed to find these things out?

Everyone is supposed to read the 9 million page handbook that comes out just after they do and before the placenta, listing everyone else in the world and their genealogical lineage and proper names in their indigenous languages pronounced perfectly.

On those three:
Huron is derived from the French word for "ruffians", Cherokee "speakers of another language", Sioux:

The name "Sioux" is an abbreviated form of Nadouessioux borrowed into Canadian French from Nadoüessioüak from the early Odawa exonym: naadowesiwag "Sioux".[4] Jean Nicolet recorded the use in 1640.[5] The Proto-Algonquian form *na·towe·wa, meaning "Northern Iroquoian", has reflexes in several daughter languages that refer to a small rattlesnake (massasauga, Sistrurus).[6] This information was interpreted by some that the Odawa borrowing was an insult. However, this Proto-Algonquian term most likely was ultimately derived from a form *-a·towe·, meaning simply "to speak a foreign language",[4] which would make it similar to the etymology of the Greek "Barbarian". Later this was extended in meaning in some Algonquian languages to refer to the massasauga. Thus, contrary to many accounts, the old Odawa word naadowesiwag did not equate the Sioux with snakes. This is not confirmed though, since usage over the previous decades has led to this term having negative connotations to those tribes to which it refers. This would explain why many tribes have rejected this term as an exonym. One source states that the name "Sioux" derives from a Chippewa word meaning "little snake";[7] Chippewa, or Ojibwa, is a dialectic variant of Odawa.

Sioux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These names are in common use and accepted by some people, not by others. I'm just sayin', the origins of these names can be considered offensive, too. We all live with some degree of tolerance for the sake of communication. And everyone has their preferences, too.

The term "lady" can be considered offensive, even though royalty use the term:

lady (n.)
c.1200, lafdi, lavede, from Old English hlæfdige "mistress of a household, wife of a lord," literally "one who kneads bread," from hlaf "bread" (see loaf) + -dige "maid," related to dæge "maker of dough" (see dey (1); also compare lord). The medial -f- disappeared 14c. Not found outside English except where borrowed from it.

Online Etymology Dictionary

A "lafdi" was a woman, who would go from door to door, offering to "knead your bread". It was a real job I guess, but also the women were considered of low repute, the whole bread thing being a metaphor. Later, it came to mean "the object of chivalrous love", which doesn't go completely against the original meaning.

[RestlessN8iv]

Am I not supposed to say "Cherokee" or "Sioux"? How am I supposed to find these things out?

Anywayz, as I've posted before, I think naming sports teams with native inspired names was great...cuz natives KICK @$$ in sports, warfare, all that...

Yea? Name one NDN team worth one fourth of a rat's a$$!

[Josiah]

Yea? Name one NDN team worth one fourth of a rat's a$$!

Sequoyah Indians, Tahlequah Oklahoma
It is a High School

We like to think they are worth at least one Rat's Arse

Its an all Indian School...

[RestlessN8iv]

I was thinking Mrs pro circuit

KC Chiefs ... suck
Redskins... Suck
Indians / Atlanta braves... I don't watch baseball so you might have me there.

[outershell]

Spartan was never a racial epithet used against the people of Sparta.
The US does not have 500 year history of committing genocide against the Vikings or Irish, or Patriots.
...so that's a little different.

and it's not just the word "Redskins" it's what comes with it.. namely this behavior:


and while I agree mascot racism is not the greatest threat facing Indigenous people, it IS offensive because it is part of a larger problem between Native Americans and the dominant Eurocentric culture.

[running_with_buffs]

good points

[Zeke]

Spartan was never a racial epithet used against the people of Sparta.

Just people from rural Michigan?

The US does not have 500 year history of committing genocide against the Vikings or Irish, or Patriots.
...so that's a little different.

Well, they weren't here. And, when the Irish got here, they were treated like crap. (Sum? Comparing marginalization doesn't strike me as solid argumentative ground.)

and it's not just the word "Redskins" it's what comes with it.. namely this behavior:

Who, precisely, is the fool in this picture? (It's not any Indian.) Seriously, you're offended by this? It's buffoonery and the highest form of non-threatening...

and while I agree mascot racism is not the greatest threat facing Indigenous people, it IS offensive because it is part of a larger problem between Native Americans and the dominant Eurocentric culture.

You realize that we foster a significant portion of this "problem" by being militant about things like this?

There's not a centralized "dominant Eurocentric culture" in Europe anymore, let alone here and some folks (like the above) are just idiots. There is no cognizant and ongoing effort by any "dominant culture" to subvert our social status by virtue of eleven men paying homage to a spheroidal pigskin wearing a caricature.

[RestlessN8iv]

Spartan was never a racial epithet used against the people of Sparta.
The US does not have 500 year history of committing genocide against the Vikings or Irish, or Patriots.
...so that's a little different.

and it's not just the word "Redskins" it's what comes with it.. namely this behavior:


and while I agree mascot racism is not the greatest threat facing Indigenous people, it IS offensive because it is part of a larger problem between Native Americans and the dominant Eurocentric culture.

I can't wait to hear all bout his Cherokee Princess grandmother.

[Josiah]

Somebody is paying attention if its making its way into the National Media
Native American mascots: Pride or prejudice? ? In America - CNN.com Blogs

[Zeke]

Somebody is paying attention if its making its way into the National Media
Native American mascots: Pride or prejudice? ? In America - CNN.com Blogs

And 90% of the comments tell us precisely where we are on this issue which recycles every ten years: tilting at windmills.

Just two examples?

"alf564

And it goes on and on and on, never ending complaining. If they really want to help "their people" work on getting them jobs and some industry onto the reservation instead of crying about a sports name...GOOD GRIEF !!!!"


"McBob79

The political correct loons on the warpath again. It's just a silly waste of time... there are so many more important issues facing America, like no jobs for Native Americans, African Americans and other minority groups. Mascot names for sports teams is not a top 10 problem facing America!"

This story is out there as fodder, not to create traction. There IS NO traction for movement on this issue.

[Fang]

I live near the DC area (about 45 mins away in good traffic), and there's just so many things that are more important than a dinky football team.

If people want to run around like nitwits looking like they were tared and feathered by a village of bleeding turkeys in honor of their almighty oval-shaped pigskin god, fine. Whatever. Nothing they do (no matter how hard they're trying) is actually representative of my culture or who I am today.

Sure, "redskin" was originally a derogatory term used to collectively describe the many great nations based on color. But if you REALLY feel so strongly about it, learn to take something that was once negative and either let it bounce off you, or turn it into something positive.

Look at the African American culture. They took so many names that once labeled them and served to hold them back, and turned them into something they can be proud of. So many are proud to be "black", "negro", and all the other terms used to describe them. Even the younger generations. Those words can't hurt them as a people anymore. And even when called certain names out of hatred, they know who they are and what they're about as people. So a little slight from a local village idiot means a whole lot less than it once did.

As for me, I'd be prouder to be a redskin if the team didn't suck so bad. And half the time no one gives a rat's *** what ethnicity I am anyway, unless I go out of my way to bring attention to it. Racist buggers give me the stink eye, so what? I've been called names for far more than just my race. Whether used decoratively or used under the excuse of trying to "honor" us, it's all in how we chose to be effected by it.

Until someone comes at me, my niece, nephews or family with pitchforks, torches and bricks, I got bigger fish to fry than a name used for some entertainment team.

[Josiah]

And 90% of the comments tell us precisely where we are on this issue which recycles every ten years: tilting at windmills.

Just two examples?

"alf564

And it goes on and on and on, never ending complaining. If they really want to help "their people" work on getting them jobs and some industry onto the reservation instead of crying about a sports name...GOOD GRIEF !!!!"


"McBob79

The political correct loons on the warpath again. It's just a silly waste of time... there are so many more important issues facing America, like no jobs for Native Americans, African Americans and other minority groups. Mascot names for sports teams is not a top 10 problem facing America!"

This story is out there as fodder, not to create traction. There IS NO traction for movement on this issue.

Yeah well
If enough pressure is placed anything will change
I posted the article
We shall see
no matter what we say
Public Opinion is fickle
And just because the Loud mouths can type does not mean that the majority that did not type anything dont find it offensive...

[Zeke]

If enough pressure is placed anything will change.

Sure.

But we're never going to be able to apply that much pressure, at least not without tackling the meaningful problems, first.