end of the world

[JUS ME]

do u beleive in end of the world or will it really happen
or waz there ever a time when it waz going to happen or what r your beliefs

[alamosaurus]

According to the astronomers, in about 5,000,000,000 years,
the Sun will become a red giant; it will swell to about 30 times
its present diameter, and perhaps 50 or 100 times its present
brightness. At that point, the Earth will become too hot to
support life. Perhaps our descendants will have migrated
elsewhere in the galaxy by that time.

Of course, we coul end the world ourselves. We have had the
ability to do this ever since July 16, 1945, the day the first Bomb
was tested. All someone has to do is push the button on the
nuclear trigger. The country hit by the Bomb retaliates in kind,
and the Earth becomes uninhabitable due to "nuclear winter" and
fallout.

[Wakalapi]

When I practiced Christianity (yes believe it or not I was into that sort of thing) I studied a little bit of eschatology. From THEIR standpoint you have Pretribulationism (a popular form is Dispensationalism), Mid-tribulationism, Posttribulationism (all three are forms of Premillenialism), and you even have Postmillenialism (Gary North/RJ Rushdoony "Domion Now" theology). At one time or another my beliefs were partial to almost any one of the above biblical theories.

But now I look at things much differently (I no longer practice classical Christianity - don't get me wrong I don't call Jesus a mamzer and a liar now I just don't think the Christians are following what he really taught and don't believe what he did when he walked the earth - my isn't that quite the can of worms, eh?). Why would Creator make a world that is just a temporary place as a disposable "proving ground"? This would be inefficient and unproductive. OK, so the Borg wouldn't like that, but let's be realistic. This planet obviously took SOMEONE alot of planning, time and effort (relative to our pithy abilities of course). It's a beautiful place. It is a natural biosphere with a nearly ideal level of gravity, atmospheric pressure and composition, solar radiation level and atmospheric filtration, temperature, presence of certain essential elements and compounds, and a vast and complex array of processes that produce foods and energies and then process and recycle waste products. Do ya think all of that would be built into some 'temporary fix' in the grand scheme of things? I no longer do. Not that I believe the world is the great end-all in itself. But as for a catastrophic end to all life being a planned event, I just don't see that happening.

Call it blind faith, but I trust Creator would "do something" and step in to stop an all-out nuclear war from happening. NOT TO SAY WE SHOULD NOT WORK HARD RIGHT NOW toward preventing such a possiblity, ourselves.

[ojibwaysweetie]

Is there an end to the world? nahh.

There are prophecies the elders have within various tribes. Those are what I believe in. We have a few prophecies about that. I truly believe the Creator would not allow a nuclear happening to his earth, either, I do however think he has his own tricks up his sleeve for an earth's enema (lol) if that should come around to happening.

[Kituhwa]

The Eschatological theories of mainline Protestant Christianity have proved extraordinarily harmful in my own life.

I was raised by a fundamentalist Christian mother, and was daily indoctrinated, told regularly the consequences of sin without repentence (i.e. hell or "being left behind" in the Rapture).

I grew up absolutely terrified of just about everything, I remember one night when I was just a little boy waking up crying in a cold sweat asking my mother "What is God?" and she replied a spirit, and then I asked a little about hell, I knew that we were being taught that if you rejected Jesus you went to hell forever.

But what I couldn't understand was the Jews, they were always saying Jesus was a Jew, that God loved Jews, that they were his "Chosen People" and so forth. However, I knew they didn't believe in Jesus so I asked if God would make an exception at least in their case.

She said no and I started crying my eyes out saying "that's horrible!" Rather than providing me with any comfort she scolded and berating me for questioning God's justice, making me all the more terrified.

It did not help that hypocrisy still ABOUNDS among my "christian" relatives and the churches they attend, I have seen things that you can not even imagine. I eventually lost faith and am now completely lost.

What ever remnants of Indian spirituality existed in my family were eradicated long ago, and I live far away from each of the tribes I am descended from and have never been taught any of those ways.

I fear learning another way for being condemned as one who was practicing "cultural misappropriation" and "stealing" someone else's religion or culture, but I feel I need something. I have been mistreated horribly by whites for being mixed, and Indians the like, I have suffered the titles of "halfbreed", "mongrel" and "wannabe" and I know not what to do.

Most of the time I just present a veneer of cheerfulness and adolescent humor, but it is only a mask to cover the deep scars of my extremely painful indoctrination as a child, teenager, and even an adult.

Because of the Eschatalogical interpretations I did little with my life until recently, possessing a disillusioned attitude that "Why should I bother thinking about going to school or my future if the world is just going to end anyway?"

That is why I'm now 24 and still have only completed a year and a half toward my Bachelor's Degree, I so wanted to have been done by now, but at 18 I was in no condition to do so. I was distraught, confused, and suicidal, masochistic even and absolutely inconsolable. It took years for me to overcome many of the problems that I face, but I am still nowhere near completely whole.

Fear has plagued me my entire life, fear of a vengeful God, fear of the "evils" of society, I developed severe depression and anxiety and began suffering with social anxiety disorder and eventually full blown Agoraphobia, for a year or more I would not even leave my house.

Today, though I've overcome a lot, I still struggle with those feelings on a daily basis and can not deny that it is in no small part a result of my religious education.

Things I was never able to justify in my own mind were

If God knows everything already, why would he create a person knowing that he was just going to send them to hell in the future when they died anyway?

Even if you are a horrible evil person, like Hitler, your crimes and their effects are still only temporary, how is it then that it is justifiable that your punishment be eternal?

The theory is that mere rejection of Jesus Christ as your "personal lord and savior" will land you in hell for eternity, it seems unfair that a person who lived a good, decent, and honest life and was kind to those around them should be sent to hell simply for that reason and share the torment with men who surely deserve if like Hitler or Osama Bin Laden.

There are many more reasons I lost my faith, but I think I have said enough for now.

[Wakalapi]

Kituhwa, thank you for being so open and honest about what you have been through. I think your statement about the "veneer of cheerfulness and adolescent humor" just about sums it up for a whole heckuva lot of people, even if they'd rather not talk about it. If someone needs to portray the Creator as some kind of big, mean bogeyman that's gonna "get ya" if you don't believe according to the formula and act just right; in other words if they need to pervert a message of redemption (well that's what it was designed as anyhoo) and turn it into a mind control tool it just shows their own lack of spiritual security and an obvious lack of humility. I do not continue to follow Christianity, as I already stated, and many of my posts over the months tend to show my disdain for it as a religion, but I am still up in the air about who and what Jesus really was and what he really would have wanted his followers to believe. I personally believe that whatever he was, whomever he was, could probably be compared to our own sacred history of the White Buffalo Calf Woman's coming to teach us the ways we should follow (I only mention this because it IS a very commonly known story already, I do not advocate discussing deeply sacred stories on the Internet). It seems that there have been many, many "messiah's" sent to peoples throughout history and the teachings are fairly consistent, simply to be humble toward Creator and toward one another and out of this will flow generousity and peace. End of the world? Too much wrapped up into this place. LOL I love that "earth's enema" theory but seriously I believe a cleaning process is eventually in store, but no not complete destruction.

[Kituhwa]

You're welcome,

My main problem with Christians right now, at least in the United States, the 50 million strong, extremely politically active body, of mainline Protestant Christianity, is that they are all too willing to overlook the horrid injustices committed by self-proclaimed "Christians" in the past and present them as heroes.

Case in point, Abraham Lincoln, I was asked to do a report on this man and I was enraged. So I wrote the truth and was given a D on my paper. I told everyone about Mankato, Minnesota in 1862 and about the fact that, had it not been for Lincoln giving him the go ahead, the Navajo people would never have suffered the wrath of that genocidal maniac Christopher "Kit" Carson who destroyed all their homes and villages and sent them to a hell hole called Bosque Redondo/Fort Sumner.

My mother, being a Christian kept bringing up his role in "freeing slaves". Its never mentioned that, had it not been for constant pressure from Abolitionists and especially the Black freedman Frederick Douglas, Lincoln never would have considered ending slavery immediately as part of his campaign in the Civil War. Ever since the question of the morality of slavery first arose, the self-proclaimed Christian "founding fathers" justified slavery by saying they'd gradually do away with it, they couldn't very well just free them all because their economy depended upon it.

Then lots not forget that Licoln advocated mistreatment and near annihilation of one race of brown people (i.e. Indians) in order that he could get the money he thought he would get from gold mining operations in Navajo country in order to free another race of brown skinned people (i.e. blacks)

So I ask Christians, "You are a follower of Jesus Christ? Do you honestly think that Jesus would justify this kind of behavior and make excuses for this kind of hypocrisy the way you are doing? Do you think that he would say astonishingly stupid things like 'We cannot judge him by the standards of our day?'" It is extraordinarily frustrating.

And then, Indians who are Christians are coerced into learning this propagandist history and taught to believe that, since these people were supposedly "good Christians" then they as "good Christians" should also attempt to justify and or overlook the injustices that these same so-called Christians committed against their ancestors.