Into the West

[TigerEyes214]

synopsis

I had to skip past all these posts so it wouldnt spoil.......

I didn't see last week's Episode,,,,,im going to watch this week's on Sunday......


Could someone please fill me in on what happened last week so im all caught up????

[White Powwow Dancer]

TigerEyes214
They where building the transcontinental railroad from 1863 to 1869. They had the Sand Creek massacre too. They had the Red Cloud war too.

[Dawgwhisperer]

I had a chance to sleep on it and this came to mind....
The juxtaposition of Carlisle trying to 'bleach' our People, next to the example of Margaret Light Shines teaching her children The Lakota Way. I took from this symbolism that we are stronger than those who would oppress us. So long as some of us don't forget and pass along the traditions we cannot be exterminated. The example of MLS teaching what was taught to her by her mother, and to her mother by her mother keeps The Circle going.

What of the virtues we are all given at birth and then must acquire by our lifestyle. What has happened to this philosophy? When despair fills the heart and soul of The People...when unemployment, addiction and domestic abuse cause the People lose their way... We may disparage non NDNs as being 'new age' for trying to adopt some of 'Our' ways, and even criticize other tribes for adopting a practice that is not theirs by origin (sun dance, pow-wow, etc.) But in cases where the philosophy is time honored and true bringing sense to a crazy world, why wouldn't others want to see if it works for them?

I know there was something else that grabbed me but I'm sorta overwhelmed right now. I'll remember it later.

Woksape, Waunsilapi, Wowicake, Wayuonihan

What you said is most awesome. That's what I'm talking about in making a little difference here and there. We are still dominated by the white man and the only way we can correct anything is to keep on talking and educating in any way we can (like I was explaining in my post a couple days ago).

I can't even explain what is driving me so hard, but I can't stop myself.......I'm "in this" for the duration of my life. I will do whatever I can to share and treasure what I know and what I learn to honor those who suffered b/4 us. The jews had their holocaust and don't let anyone forget. My uncle always said that the first holocaust occurred here many moons ago. He was right and we deserve respect, honor and positive remembrance from now on for us and for our ancestors.

[Plenty Fox]

Tashunka Witco

<TABLE width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><CENTER>Korczak tells Crazy Horse's Story</CENTER>


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Marble model copyright © Korczak, Sc.
</TD><TD>When asked "where are your lands now?" Crazy Horse pointed and said: "My lands are where my dead lie buried."



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Crazy Horse Memorial is a nonprofit cultural and educational humanitarian project dedicated to the Native Americans of North America.

The foundation has three major goals: the mountain carving, the Indian Museum of North America, and the Indian University (and Medical Training Center) of North America.

Sculptor Korczak Ziolkowski wrote the following explanation of why Native American leaders chose Crazy Horse for the mountain carving:

Crazy Horse

Crazy Horse was born on Rapid Creek in 1842(?). While at Fort Robinson, Nebraska, under a flag of truce, he was stabbed in the back by an American soldier and died September 6, 1877 -- age 35.

Crazy Horse defended his people and their way of life in the only manner he knew.



<CENTER>BUT --


</CENTER>Only after he saw the Treaty of 1868 broken. This treaty signed by the President of the United States, said, "As long as rivers run and grass grows and trees bear leaves, Paha Sapa -- the Black Hills -- will forever be the sacred lands of the Lakota Indians."

Only after he saw his leader, Conquering Bear, exterminated by treachery.

Only after he saw the failure of the government agents to bring required treaty guarantees, such as meat, clothing, tents and necessities for existence which they were to receive for having given up their lands and gone to live on reservations.

Only after he saw his people's lives and their way of life ravaged and destroyed,

Crazy Horse has never been known to have signed a treaty or touched a pen.

Crazy Horse is to be carved not so much as a lineal likeness, but more as a memorial to the spirit of Crazy Horse -- to his people. With his left hand thrown out pointing in answer to the derisive question asked by a white man, "Where are your lands now?" he replied, "My lands are where my dead lie buried."

May 29, 1949

Korczak Ziolkowski, Sc

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[White Powwow Dancer]

Hi
I saw the cruelly they are doing in the boarding school they make a kid to eat soap for speaking Lakota to the teachers. I'am glad I am not a school teacher for the boarding school in the 1870's. I would be sad to see the kids get treated like animals.

[Yaquila]

Some of us here on this Board have been to boarding school; some of us have parents and grandparents who were sent to boarding school. I just want to say that I honor you all. In one way or another you are survivors; and those who have already left this world after experiencing this atrocity were also survivors.

The only thing I agree with that I heard in the Carlisle episode was the comment that to triumph over the White man our People have to be able to compete. This was conveyed by espousing 'education'. Well, that part is true. Each generation should make sure the next is empowered to 'survive'. The lessons of the past will help our children and their children look to the future and succeed!

my grand parents went to one of these schools.So seeing this movie makes me really sad.You are so right...we are survivors...We will all ways be here.

[Plenty Fox]

Hi
I saw the cruelly they are doing in the boarding school they make a kid to eat soap for speaking Lakota to the teachers. I'am glad I am not a school teacher for the boarding school in the 1870's. I would be sad to see the kids get treated like animals.

I could relate to that scene. LOL! When I was little and said something bad, my folks used a bar of soap. I'm sure others here on the Board experienced that, too. Obviously a remnant of their experiences...

[OlowanWi]

I think that people are expecting way to much from Spielberg, and laying alot of blame on HIM for actually making pointed remarks on the attitudes that were around back in those days. You don't actually want him to rewrite history just to appease the indians, now do you? We want it told right, and if liberties are taken to convey the message of how horrible the attitudes towards natives were, then I say take them.
I WANT people to see how rampant the use of the term Squaw was. It has provided me plenty of opportunities to correct that bit of information to non-natives who I speak with about the series.
I really don't think that we want to nice it all up, just so Natives can say, FINALLY, a movie that tells it right! What do you mean?? We were treated horribly, and white men behaved barbaric and idiotic. TELL IT LIKE IT WAS!! Even if it ruffles your feathers. Shove the ignorance and hate and utter lack of remorse and sanity into the faces of white America. Show them, HERE, here is what your great ancestors did to us!! Here is the shame that you have all been kept in the dark about!! And look at the dignity and honor that OUR ancestors kept during the whole thing.
This series is hard to watch, as the episodes move along. Episode 5 was hardest to watch. But I'm glad for it. It has it's inaccuracies and flaws, but it tells a story that needs to be told. If you can't stand how it is told, go read an old history book to help gloss it over for you. I prefer to embrace the slow starts. And I also applaud Spielberg for taking a risk to help a fellow Lakota tell his story.
All the native actors featured in this series are sensitive to their culture and to accurate portrayals of natives. Don't you think we would have been hearing from them if it were such a horribe rendition of the truth?

[urbandn]

There are alot of scenes in the last two episodes that were very emotional for anyone who has any kind of clue about the truth of what happened in the taking of this land. Unfortunately, thre will always be those who do not understand, who just do not and will not get it. I watched part of last night's episode with a white friend. Despite explaining to them that many massacres had already taken place, they are insistent that what happened to Custer is what caused us to 'sign our death warrant'. They have had mistruths pounded into their head from birth, and cannot believe that the schools, government etc are still lying to them today.
What can you do? Just your best to make them see the truths that have never been exposed, support Native film directors, actors and anyone seeking to tell the truth.

[Plenty Fox]

understanding history, keeping it in context...

It is the character of Robert Wheeler, who with his wife Clara, joins Pratt at the Carlisle Indian School. He tells George Voices That Carry that he should strive to learn so he could put down the history of his People in writing, not to please Pratt but for his [Voices That Carry] children and their children because what White society calls 'history' is "written by those who win the battles". He tried to convey that the written word could help preserve Lakota culture for the future because he feared there would be no Lakota left to deliver the traditional oral history.

Keeping in mind the above, and remembering that there were no national daily newspapers, radio and tv, it is easy to see why a White populace of that time would believe the 'spin' put on Native America. Even for those living in places like Denver, the two cultures were so removed from each other that when zealots like Chivington report on the 'savage' nature of the Native people and strategically leave out the important parts about the army's campaign of annihilation, who do you think White America of 18?? is going to believe? And, because the historians of the time were at a similar disadvantage vis-a-vis reference resources, mistruths and garbage were perpetuated to the point that it made damage control by Native peoples very difficult. It is painful to watch scenes like those with Black Kettle where confusion is evident when he is attacked after trying to communicate that he wants peace. Just as we do now, there were 'hawks' and 'doves' in the leadership on both sides. Chiefs espousing cooperation and/or non-violent solutions were caught in a no-win situation. They never had a chance, we never had a chance; because public opinion at the time was influenced by a few very vocal White extremists. There is definitely a great value in films such as this; and even some of the less accurate ones so long as they portray our people as 'human'. We now have the capability of using media to our advantage--I say use it! Even if that means making people squirm and complain--and there will be people on both sides who do so--there is the mentality among some of our people that the past is entirely the past so why bring it up? Why? Because history IS 'written by those who win the battles' and I believe we can still win this one. Not be getting into heated debates full of accusation and recrimination; but by harnassing media and putting the truth out there! Truth never needs defending, but it does need put out there. Remember that old adage, 'one picture is worth a thousand words'? Spielberg et al gave us quite a 'picture book'.

[White Powwow Dancer]

I think that people are expecting way to much from Spielberg, and laying alot of blame on HIM for actually making pointed remarks on the attitudes that were around back in those days. You don't actually want him to rewrite history just to appease the indians, now do you? We want it told right, and if liberties are taken to convey the message of how horrible the attitudes towards natives were, then I say take them.
I WANT people to see how rampant the use of the term Squaw was. It has provided me plenty of opportunities to correct that bit of information to non-natives who I speak with about the series.
I really don't think that we want to nice it all up, just so Natives can say, FINALLY, a movie that tells it right! What do you mean?? We were treated horribly, and white men behaved barbaric and idiotic. TELL IT LIKE IT WAS!! Even if it ruffles your feathers. Shove the ignorance and hate and utter lack of remorse and sanity into the faces of white America. Show them, HERE, here is what your great ancestors did to us!! Here is the shame that you have all been kept in the dark about!! And look at the dignity and honor that OUR ancestors kept during the whole thing.
This series is hard to watch, as the episodes move along. Episode 5 was hardest to watch. But I'm glad for it. It has it's inaccuracies and flaws, but it tells a story that needs to be told. If you can't stand how it is told, go read an old history book to help gloss it over for you. I prefer to embrace the slow starts. And I also applaud Spielberg for taking a risk to help a fellow Lakota tell his story.
All the native actors featured in this series are sensitive to their culture and to accurate portrayals of natives. Don't you think we would have been hearing from them if it were such a horribe rendition of the truth?

You're right about that OlowanWi.

[Dawgwhisperer]

I think that people are expecting way to much from Spielberg, and laying alot of blame on HIM for actually making pointed remarks on the attitudes that were around back in those days. You don't actually want him to rewrite history just to appease the indians, now do you? We want it told right, and if liberties are taken to convey the message of how horrible the attitudes towards natives were, then I say take them.
I WANT people to see how rampant the use of the term Squaw was. It has provided me plenty of opportunities to correct that bit of information to non-natives who I speak with about the series.
I really don't think that we want to nice it all up, just so Natives can say, FINALLY, a movie that tells it right! What do you mean?? We were treated horribly, and white men behaved barbaric and idiotic. TELL IT LIKE IT WAS!! Even if it ruffles your feathers. Shove the ignorance and hate and utter lack of remorse and sanity into the faces of white America. Show them, HERE, here is what your great ancestors did to us!! Here is the shame that you have all been kept in the dark about!! And look at the dignity and honor that OUR ancestors kept during the whole thing.
This series is hard to watch, as the episodes move along. Episode 5 was hardest to watch. But I'm glad for it. It has it's inaccuracies and flaws, but it tells a story that needs to be told. If you can't stand how it is told, go read an old history book to help gloss it over for you. I prefer to embrace the slow starts. And I also applaud Spielberg for taking a risk to help a fellow Lakota tell his story.
All the native actors featured in this series are sensitive to their culture and to accurate portrayals of natives. Don't you think we would have been hearing from them if it were such a horribe rendition of the truth?

Thanx for posting. I think if you read back through the posts you'll see that there is agreement that it should be as vivid and harsh as possible. I said myself in a previous post that Spielberg did a great job with Saving Private Ryan depicting the violence at Normandy Beach and Mel Gibson did a great job depicting the entire events of The Christ leading up to his crucifixion. I think the harder it is to watch, the better......NOW we have to make sure that we integrate truth and positive motivation in our daily lives to insure that "we" are not forgotten nor portrayed any longer as we have been throughout history. Plenty Fox is right, we can STILL win. But alot of it depends on OUR solidarity and not dissension amongst us....regardless of tribe, blood %, etc. I'm actually starting to educate my white nieces, 9 & 11 years old with positive knowledge. They will tell their extended family and friends and THAT is how we can make an impact.....through ALL children, white or ndn.

[White Powwow Dancer]

Couldn't stop the tears when they cut the kids hair.So sad.

I seen the scene too I almost cried too. When Voice That Carry ran away from the hair cutting station. He said a prayer to the Wakan Tanka please have compassion on me. I cried during that scene too.

[Plenty Fox]

Critiquing the Series When You Haven't Watched It

I've noticed on both of the threads related to Into The West a certain number of folks are volunteering their comments, primarily criticism, and they haven't even been watching the series. Does that make sense? Nada. If you haven't watched it, you don't have anything to say. We can all sit here and moan about how Natives have been treated historically--that's nothing new and, frankly, that's another thread... The two threads about Into The West are about that movie's depiction specifically. Seeing the previews only, in no way qualifies someone to critique the whole series... but perhaps I should be posting this on the thread "What gets on your nerves" elsewhere in this forum. However, it is frustrating to try and have an informed and intelligent conversation about something and then have someone chime in that hasn't even watched the show. Just my two cents.......Next week is the final episode...fasten your seatbelt, we're in for a bumpy ride...

[Dawgwhisperer]

Once again, Plenty you've poetically expressed what some need to hear. Where's the other thread relating to ITW? I'd be interested to see that one too.