Hello

[tanner]

Hello all Im new to posting on the board have stopped in a few times but am going to start posting. I am a lost bird my father was illegally adopted in 1946 and well was lied too and never have found my way home so to say. Have not given up that path back home always walking because home is where the heart is and well my heart is Native and one day I believe we will learn the truth.

Anyway nice site.

May the Great Spirit Bless you

Take Care
Tann

[timmy tiger]

Welcome to the site and have fun posting.

What do you mean when you say "Illegally adopted"? Does or did he have a birth cert? Or an "Amended" birth cert?

[tanner]

Welcome to the site and have fun posting.

What do you mean when you say "Illegally adopted"? Does or did he have a birth cert? Or an "Amended" birth cert?

He has a Birth Cert but his original cannot be found. The adoptive parents went through a county court and back then wasnt like it is now so the state has no records and there is no file just a decree. Everything pertaining to his mother is missing from the state of Florida where she died at. She was hitching and caught a ride with some army soldiers and the army truck flipped she drown in collier county florida but the death cert etc the state of Florida says they have no record.

My father was only 3 months old when the adoptive parents got him and then when he was eight months old is when they done the adoption. The state only has the one birth cert on file for him. Ive tried for years to figure out due to my father cant read and write well. He went to school during segregation and because of his skin color he was forced to quit in 6th grade because racial tensions so this is why I try and help him find answers. This is a part of the story thanks for asking though.

May the Great Spirit bless you

Take Care
Tann

[timmy tiger]

He has a Birth Cert but his original cannot be found. The adoptive parents went through a county court and back then wasnt like it is now so the state has no records and there is no file just a decree. Everything pertaining to his mother is missing from the state of Florida where she died at. She was hitching and caught a ride with some army soldiers and the army truck flipped she drown in collier county florida but the death cert etc the state of Florida says they have no record.

My father was only 3 months old when the adoptive parents got him and then when he was eight months old is when they done the adoption. The state only has the one birth cert on file for him. Ive tried for years to figure out due to my father cant read and write well. He went to school during segregation and because of his skin color he was forced to quit in 6th grade because racial tensions so this is why I try and help him find answers. This is a part of the story thanks for asking though.

May the Great Spirit bless you

Take Care
Tann

Actually you might be looking in the wrong place for his original birth cert. I'm not just asking out of curiosity, but i deal with these records on a daily basis. I know about Florida's records. Even though the Federal Gov didn't make it manditory until around the 1950's for the states to keep records of births and deaths, many states did start keeping these records way before then and many back to 1908, actually most. Although there some that can and did slip through the cracks. You father wasn't necessarily born where he was adopted and so his original birth cert. could be somewhere else. And yes court records are normal when there is an adoption even back then. Can you get the court records of the adoption? Have you tried this? Some of them are sealed after a certain year and some are not. But they can be petitioned to be opened by the person, it could take a little while or even a little of a fight, but they can be opened. Actually back in the 1940's it was all that different. Now if you were talking the 1920's and before you might have a harder time. But there were still laws and many of them haven't changed all that much since back then.

Are you sure that that's how and where his birth mother died? How do you know this for sure? If they don't have a death cert on her, maybe she died somewhere else. Even if she died in the accident and was taken to a hospital in another county, her death would have been recorded in the other county and not necessarily the one where she actually died. Just some thoughts here.

[tanner]

Actually you might be looking in the wrong place for his original birth cert. I'm not just asking out of curiosity, but i deal with these records on a daily basis. I know about Florida's records. Even though the Federal Gov didn't make it manditory until around the 1950's for the states to keep records of births and deaths, many states did start keeping these records way before then and many back to 1908, actually most. Although there some that can and did slip through the cracks. You father wasn't necessarily born where he was adopted and so his original birth cert. could be somewhere else. And yes court records are normal when there is an adoption even back then. Can you get the court records of the adoption? Have you tried this? Some of them are sealed after a certain year and some are not. But they can be petitioned to be opened by the person, it could take a little while or even a little of a fight, but they can be opened. Actually back in the 1940's it was all that different. Now if you were talking the 1920's and before you might have a harder time. But there were still laws and many of them haven't changed all that much since back then.

Are you sure that that's how and where his birth mother died? How do you know this for sure? If they don't have a death cert on her, maybe she died somewhere else. Even if she died in the accident and was taken to a hospital in another county, her death would have been recorded in the other county and not necessarily the one where she actually died. Just some thoughts here.

Thank you for your help I really appreciate that. Well where I live all the records are in archives and I found the decree but the lady looked for a record and there is no other file or record associated with it is what she told me. Now I found the death listed on ancestry.com and it showed she died in collier county florida but when I called the stated they said they had no record. My father was adopted here in Tennessee and the decree is in Robertson County where I live. Another thing is my grandmother cannot be found on no census records I know she was alive on the 1930 Census record but cant find here living with anyone when i searched her name and my Great Grandfather only place he is found is when he married my Great Grandmother lol. The whole family on my dad's side is like a mystey I had a uncle Less who was Native american and he was the only one that ever talked about it with dad. Its weird the family that adopted my father allowed him to be seen by my Great Grandmother but they never talked about my dad's mother etc except for the story of what happen.

May the Great Spirit bless you

Take Care
Tann

[timmy tiger]

Thank you for your help I really appreciate that. Well where I live all the records are in archives and I found the decree but the lady looked for a record and there is no other file or record associated with it is what she told me. Now I found the death listed on ancestry.com and it showed she died in collier county florida but when I called the stated they said they had no record. My father was adopted here in Tennessee and the decree is in Robertson County where I live. Another thing is my grandmother cannot be found on no census records I know she was alive on the 1930 Census record but cant find here living with anyone when i searched her name and my Great Grandfather only place he is found is when he married my Great Grandmother lol. The whole family on my dad's side is like a mystey I had a uncle Less who was Native american and he was the only one that ever talked about it with dad. Its weird the family that adopted my father allowed him to be seen by my Great Grandmother but they never talked about my dad's mother etc except for the story of what happen.

May the Great Spirit bless you

Take Care
Tann

Okay, first things first. When you found his birth cert, was it at the vital records dept? I've done some research in TN and know a few things. You see where his birth cert was and where his adoption records would be are two different places. The adoption records are either in the Clerk of Courts or there is a juvenille division that might have them. I would call the clerk of courts and ask where the actual adoption records would be.

Next you say that you found his birth mother's death record on Ancestry. Okay, where on ancestry was it? Was it were individuals like you and me post our family info in trees or was it in the county records? If it was in an individual's tree, contact that person if you can and find out where they got that info from, I've done that many times.LOL They might have just assumed or they might actually have the records that you are looking for. Now, if you found the info in the County records it will give you a document number and then they definitely have that record, something in what you are giving them might be just a little off. Us the records number to find it that way.

Now, not finding your grandparents or g-grandparents on a census record. This is not uncommon or even a rare thing at all. But check out all the possibilities first. They could have spelled her name wrong, used initials or she was under her nickname and not a given name. Try your search many different ways, not just by name only. You might actually find it.

[tanner]

Okay, first things first. When you found his birth cert, was it at the vital records dept? I've done some research in TN and know a few things. You see where his birth cert was and where his adoption records would be are two different places. The adoption records are either in the Clerk of Courts or there is a juvenille division that might have them. I would call the clerk of courts and ask where the actual adoption records would be.

Next you say that you found his birth mother's death record on Ancestry. Okay, where on ancestry was it? Was it were individuals like you and me post our family info in trees or was it in the county records? If it was in an individual's tree, contact that person if you can and find out where they got that info from, I've done that many times.LOL They might have just assumed or they might actually have the records that you are looking for. Now, if you found the info in the County records it will give you a document number and then they definitely have that record, something in what you are giving them might be just a little off. Us the records number to find it that way.

Now, not finding your grandparents or g-grandparents on a census record. This is not uncommon or even a rare thing at all. But check out all the possibilities first. They could have spelled her name wrong, used initials or she was under her nickname and not a given name. Try your search many different ways, not just by name only. You might actually find it.

The only place that found his Birth record was state vital records he has had to order one before. I wrote to get any adoption records unsealed at the state and they said there was nonoe that existed so they told me to try local court and that is where I found the adoption decree. I will call juvenile court tommorow and try that. Now as far asthe Death Cert it was a state record and had the number after I called the State and inquired about the document they said it was missing from the file and well a few weeks later when I looked the document up again the number is missing same with the marriage record where she married my Grandfather in Monroe County Florida.

May the Great Spirit Bless you

Take Care
tann

[timmy tiger]

The only place that found his Birth record was state vital records he has had to order one before. I wrote to get any adoption records unsealed at the state and they said there was nonoe that existed so they told me to try local court and that is where I found the adoption decree. I will call juvenile court tommorow and try that. Now as far asthe Death Cert it was a state record and had the number after I called the State and inquired about the document they said it was missing from the file and well a few weeks later when I looked the document up again the number is missing same with the marriage record where she married my Grandfather in Monroe County Florida.

May the Great Spirit Bless you

Take Care
tann

HMMM, now that is weird 'cause the people who enter that info on Ancestry aren't necessarily the people who work for the courts or county records. Usually they are volunteers, individuals who do that. Something doesn't sound right with that one there. Because even if it's mis-placed, the number stays there and the same. The only way to pull a record like that and omit the number would be to go through the courts and get permission. That's the law of today and what they have to go by today, they can't use a law from the 1940's the change or erase a record even if they wanted to. Maybe you saw a wrong number or something. Is the record showing there at all on Ancestry? Have you tried to do a general search using her name and not the location where you believe that she died?

[tanner]

HMMM, now that is weird 'cause the people who enter that info on Ancestry aren't necessarily the people who work for the courts or county records. Usually they are volunteers, individuals who do that. Something doesn't sound right with that one there. Because even if it's mis-placed, the number stays there and the same. The only way to pull a record like that and omit the number would be to go through the courts and get permission. That's the law of today and what they have to go by today, they can't use a law from the 1940's the change or erase a record even if they wanted to. Maybe you saw a wrong number or something. Is the record showing there at all on Ancestry? Have you tried to do a general search using her name and not the location where you believe that she died?

Yeah the only place Ive ever found her is those two places in the whole United States. Her Name was Corinne Cathey and she Married a Whited so I found Corrine Whited married a Harry Montgomery and then I find the death of Corrine Montgomery in 1946 in Collier County Florida. it doesnt list the name but its still listed on ancestry.

May the Great Spirit Bless you

Take Care
Tann

[timmy tiger]

What do you man it doesn't list the name? That's confusing if it doesn't list a name, but is still listed on Ancestry.

[tanner]

What do you man it doesn't list the name? That's confusing if it doesn't list a name, but is still listed on Ancestry.

Correction doesnt list the number no more sorry about that getting late here ;)

May the Great Spirit Bless you

Take care
Tann

[tanner]

Timmy tiger I talked with the courts this morning all of them in the county and they said that the Archives should have the file if they have the decree. But when I called up to archives they say they have no file on the adoption its like a big run around and none of them know a thing.

May the Great Spirit Bless you

Take Care
Tann

[beeleaf]

Hi and welcome. Good luck with your search.

[timmy tiger]

Timmy tiger I talked with the courts this morning all of them in the county and they said that the Archives should have the file if they have the decree. But when I called up to archives they say they have no file on the adoption its like a big run around and none of them know a thing.

May the Great Spirit Bless you

Take Care
Tann

Yeah, see they do have it, I know they do but you are actually gonna have to go there personally and look for it. They either have them in the wrong place, which believe me does happen, or they have her name spelled wrong. I have found this so many times. I've talked to courts before and sometimes have had to talk to them like 3 or 4 times to get the right records. And there have been times when they told me something didn't exist and I knew that it did, so I went there personally and looked it up and there it was: the same date, same person, name spelled wrong.LOL Unfortunately it does happen. Another thing is that you could have gotten someone who was very lazy and didn't really look, just told you that they did. I'm sorry, but that too does happen, it's happened to me several times.LOL

I know that Florida is a long way from TN, but if you really want to find her, the trip will be worth it.

Good luck.

[tanner]

Yeah, see they do have it, I know they do but you are actually gonna have to go there personally and look for it. They either have them in the wrong place, which believe me does happen, or they have her name spelled wrong. I have found this so many times. I've talked to courts before and sometimes have had to talk to them like 3 or 4 times to get the right records. And there have been times when they told me something didn't exist and I knew that it did, so I went there personally and looked it up and there it was: the same date, same person, name spelled wrong.LOL Unfortunately it does happen. Another thing is that you could have gotten someone who was very lazy and didn't really look, just told you that they did. I'm sorry, but that too does happen, it's happened to me several times.LOL

I know that Florida is a long way from TN, but if you really want to find her, the trip will be worth it.

Good luck.

Let me ask you this the adoption decree is here in TN and when I went up there and got a copy of the decree the lady went and looked and said im not allowed to look because there sealed records etc? Now as far as florida where do I go to look? The county she died in is right below the county my father lives in now Lee County and of course Monroe County is just a couple counties below Lee also. I visit him every july and will plan on researching this but I dont know where to start at down there.

May the Great Spirit Bless you

Take Care
Tann