Greetings, I am a new member

[bearsghost]

Hello everyone,

I come here hoping to learn more about native Indian folklore and spiritual things. My interest is to also find more definition in my own roots (?spiritual?), albeit I am a white man but my spirit seems to be that of an ancient one from a time before the mid 19th century, and of a native Indian, as well; it's a long story that I hope to share with others who are also spiritually minded in the native Indian culture. If it were possible, I would love to talk with so called, Medicine men or spiritual men who know of the ancient lore.

Thanks for reading and I hope to meet like-minded people.

[Grits & Beans]

Hi there!


I thought I smelled dead horse in here...


I would offer you some mumbojumbo gumbo, but alas I am fresh out...


I am curious tho: if your colleagues or friends were right beside you, and you came across a native person (emphasis on person), would you ask that person what you just posted here? Would you really ask that knowing your buddies were watching?

[OLChemist]

(*Wearing my friendly moderator hat.*)

Welcome to powwows.com. We are a forum for the discussion of powwow dancing and powwow related crafts, not metaphysics. Indeed, most of us come from cultures that do not consider these appropriate or safe topics to discuss in an anonymous, online forum. We prefer to take these matters privately to those who specialize is such matters within our community.

(*Being my snarky self. *)

...in the native Indian culture.

Cultures. Plural. In North America alone 500+ cultures. Some as different from one another as the French are from the Zulu.

... I am a white man but my spirit seems to be that of an ancient one from a time before the mid 19th century, and of a native Indian, as well

"In the Great American Indian Novel, when it is finally written,/ all the white people will be Indians and all the Indians will be ghosts."
-Sherman Alexie, "How to Write the Great American Indian Novel."

Some of my ancestors fought to protect their families from the invaders. Other's died of introduced epidemic disease. Nothing in any the teaching that have come from their generations to mine, even hinted that they were going to be reincarnated into some modern white guy.

Can you see how from my perspective it looks like you are trying take an identity that your culture actively tried to destroy? And before you give me a lecture on forgiveness and how my ancestors would have shared with a sincere white person, let me point out my Native ancestors violently resisted the forced cultural exchange.

[bearsghost]

Well, I suppose that any native Indian blood that is in me from my ancestors is non-traceable and a futile attempt to search roots here. I have Indian blood in me but with my family now gone it's very difficult to trace. I call myself white because I have a white name and was born into a mixed blood without choice. It appears that white people are not welcome here and you people seem to have a sixth sense of sniffing blood-works out of people like wolves so thanks for the RUDE awakening. You are both very rude to say the least.

I won't be posting here thanks to your rude welcoming.
I'm out of here. Thanks for showing me how people are treated here....
VERY distasteful!

Hi there!


I thought I smelled dead horse in here...


I would offer you some mumbojumbo gumbo, but alas I am fresh out...


I am curious tho: if your colleagues or friends were right beside you, and you came across a native person (emphasis on person), would you ask that person what you just posted here? Would you really ask that knowing your buddies were watching?

(*Wearing my friendly moderator hat.*)

Welcome to powwows.com. We are a forum for the discussion of powwow dancing and powwow related crafts, not metaphysics. Indeed, most of us come from cultures that do not consider these appropriate or safe topics to discuss in an anonymous, online forum. We prefer to take these matters privately to those who specialize is such matters within our community.

(*Being my snarky self. *)



Cultures. Plural. In North America alone 500+ cultures. Some as different from one another as the French are from the Zulu.



"In the Great American Indian Novel, when it is finally written,/ all the white people will be Indians and all the Indians will be ghosts."
-Sherman Alexie, "How to Write the Great American Indian Novel."

Some of my ancestors fought to protect their families from the invaders. Other's died of introduced epidemic disease. Nothing in any the teaching that have come from their generations to mine, even hinted that they were going to be reincarnated into some modern white guy.

Can you see how from my perspective it looks like you are trying take an identity that your culture actively tried to destroy? And before you give me a lecture on forgiveness and how my ancestors would have shared with a sincere white person, let me point out my Native ancestors violently resisted the forced cultural exchange.

[Toolbox]

They may seem blunt but they weren't blood sniffing or anti-white. OLChemist was pointing out that this site is really dedicated to Powwows, dancing and crafts and is not an outlet for spirituality, there are other sites for that. You are more than welcome to post here and learn about the social / powwow side of native cultures as powwows are not ceremonial and are public events.

[Grits & Beans]

I'm so surprised....


Good luck finding a native that fits your romanticized criteria. It's not me, I live in the real world...

[OLChemist]

Here we go again. Let me break this down for you:

When I'm in a non-Indian context and people don't recognize me as Native, non-Indian people start building a relationship with me by finding a common interest. We talk about chemistry, physics, computer programming, church activities, art, jewelry making, silversmithing, music, movies, favorite foods, or neighborhood politics.... No one has ever started the conversation with "I have a white great great-grandmother..." or "I feel white in my heart..." or "I was a white person in another life..." When I'm doing a gallery night or show and am showing jewelry that is not identifiably "Indian", they talk to me about how they connect with the piece, where do I get my ideas, or how did I make the piece.

When I am in a Indian environment and am identified as a mixed-blood, many non-Indians start with their genealogies, or their imagined connection with some romanticized, highly unrealistic or anachronistic version of who they think my people are, or their past-life experiences. When I'm doing a show where I am exhibiting beadwork or jewelry that has Native elements (or even a piece of turquoise) non-Indian people don't talk to me about the work. They talk about my ethnicity and how they somehow feel connected to it.

Can you possibly see how rather than being flattered, I feel dehumanized? I become nothing more than a vessel for DNA and other people's romantic fantasies.


When I started my postdoc, before I all my paperwork was even done, I learned that the piece of information that had proceeded me was that I was "part-Indian." The secretary who was helping me get settled confided that she had been looking forward to meeting me because she had always been interested in "Indian spirituality." Not because of my research, not because I make a killer chocolate cake, not even because two of the scientists in the department I had just come from had just won the Noble prize... She wanted to know me because of who my grandmother had slept with.

But, I am the "blood sniffing" racist?


I grew up learning both people's histories. I lived with stories that no one should ever have to tell children, because we had to remember who our ancestors were and what they had done. I grew up with shame, pride, language loss and conflicting world views. By the time I was 10, I already understood my phenotypically Indian relatives would get followed in stores, in trouble in the classroom for more minor offenses than white kids, never get a warning instead of a citation.... All the sudden when I was 12, everyone was singing "Half-breed", talking about AIM and claiming to be "part-Indian". But, what they claimed bore no resemeblance to the Native life I knew. Nor were they especially interested in real Native culture, lives or people. Instead it seemed they wanted a "white guilt get out of jail free" card.

Can you see why I might experience a little cognitive dissonance when people proclaim their "Indian spirit?"


I'm going to reach the half-century mark in a few months. I've been an unpaid cultural educator since I was old enough to articulate the differences. When I did teach at a university, I chose to teach chemistry, not comparative religion, cultural anthropology, and etiquette. (If you consider that I just spent 2 hours at 4am composing this post, I do actually try for the teachable moment.) Public school teachers qualify for a pension and retirement at 25 years. But, Indian people never get to retire from teaching. And if we have bad moment or don't respond in a way that supports the self-esteem of our unsolicited students, we are called racists, told we are disgraces to our ancestors, and just get called plain old meanies.

I ask you to, as the white guys say, "walk a mile in my moccasins" and see if you can understand why some of us might desire that you approach us as people and not objects to fulfill your various needs.

[wardancer]

Here we go again. Let me break this down for you:

When I'm in a non-Indian context and people don't recognize me as Native, non-Indian people start building a relationship with me by finding a common interest. We talk about chemistry, physics, computer programming, church activities, art, jewelry making, silversmithing, music, movies, favorite foods, or neighborhood politics.... No one has ever started the conversation with "I have a white great great-grandmother..." or "I feel white in my heart..." or "I was a white person in another life..." When I'm doing a gallery night or show and am showing jewelry that is not identifiably "Indian", they talk to me about how they connect with the piece, where do I get my ideas, or how did I make the piece.

When I am in a Indian environment and am identified as a mixed-blood, many non-Indians start with their genealogies, or their imagined connection with some romanticized, highly unrealistic or anachronistic version of who they think my people are, or their past-life experiences. When I'm doing a show where I am exhibiting beadwork or jewelry that has Native elements (or even a piece of turquoise) non-Indian people don't talk to me about the work. They talk about my ethnicity and how they somehow feel connected to it.

Can you possibly see how rather than being flattered, I feel dehumanized? I become nothing more than a vessel for DNA and other people's romantic fantasies.


When I started my postdoc, before I all my paperwork was even done, I learned that the piece of information that had proceeded me was that I was "part-Indian." The secretary who was helping me get settled confided that she had been looking forward to meeting me because she had always been interested in "Indian spirituality." Not because of my research, not because I make a killer chocolate cake, not even because two of the scientists in the department I had just come from had just won the Noble prize... She wanted to know me because of who my grandmother had slept with.

But, I am the "blood sniffing" racist?


I grew up learning both people's histories. I lived with stories that no one should ever have to tell children, because we had to remember who our ancestors were and what they had done. I grew up with shame, pride, language loss and conflicting world views. By the time I was 10, I already understood my phenotypically Indian relatives would get followed in stores, in trouble in the classroom for more minor offenses than white kids, never get a warning instead of a citation.... All the sudden when I was 12, everyone was singing "Half-breed", talking about AIM and claiming to be "part-Indian". But, what they claimed bore no resemeblance to the Native life I knew. Nor were they especially interested in real Native culture, lives or people. Instead it seemed they wanted a "white guilt get out of jail free" card.

Can you see why I might experience a little cognitive dissonance when people proclaim their "Indian spirit?"


I'm going to reach the half-century mark in a few months. I've been an unpaid cultural educator since I was old enough to articulate the differences. When I did teach at a university, I chose to teach chemistry, not comparative religion, cultural anthropology, and etiquette. (If you consider that I just spent 2 hours at 4am composing this post, I do actually try for the teachable moment.) Public school teachers qualify for a pension and retirement at 25 years. But, Indian people never get to retire from teaching. And if we have bad moment or don't respond in a way that supports the self-esteem of our unsolicited students, we are called racists, told we are disgraces to our ancestors, and just get called plain old meanies.

I ask you to, as the white guys say, "walk a mile in my moccasins" and see if you can understand why some of us might desire that you approach us as people and not objects to fulfill your various needs.

You plain old meanie !

[OLChemist]

It's the extra cup of venom in the morning. It helps keep the meanie factor up.

[WhoMe]

I won't be posting here thanks to your rude welcoming.
I'm out of here. Thanks for showing me how people are treated here....

Hmmm. Well I guess that, ends that. smh.

[Josiah]

What did I miss??

Oh this issue again LoL....

Why does it have to be Bears and Wolves?

I was sitting under the arbor at Otoe/Missouria this past July and the subject of animals that represent clans and why some "people" always seem to want a Wolf or Bear to be there spirit animal when talking with natives or seeking something from natives... Although the Otoes have a Bear Clan they dont have a wolf clan, Buffalo yes no Wolf. Just seems funny that the wolf always seems to be asscoiated with Natives and if not Bear. But you never hear of Pigeon or Owls while both actual Clans of the Otoe peoples you never see somebody with that animal represented by these "people". With my tribe there is no Bear clan but we do have Long Hair clan or what is sometimes called Twister. The largest was Wolf clan but most will say they are from the Deer Clan, And yet I will see somebody with a wolf tail hanging down from their belt like a trophy, Why I wonder?? Did they see that in a Museum somewhere? Is that a fashion statement from the 1800's?? I have never seen that and yet when I travel to the east of me I see these wolves tails hanging off of belts and purses everywhere!!
Sigh...
Lost Souls that dont know how to read...

[Toolbox]

Why does it have to be Bears and Wolves?

Because snakes and sharks are too f'ing scary for some people.

On a serious note it's probably because people associate bears and wolves as being untamed and powerful. That and Hollywood says those are powerful Native American symbols so.

[gilisi]

Remember that one dude with the whale? Whales are nice. LOL

[wardancer]

C'mon now , you know my spirit aminal is the 3 toed sloth ! Sid is my hero !

[Hollywood-NDN -ES/LA]

Awww, he left? I was gonna charge him an arm and leg to take him on some fake spirit journey that involves staring directly in the sun for an hour to feel one with the universe, why did you guys have to ruin my fun? :p