Native Veterans

[ojibwaysweetie]

What do you Native American Veterans think and feel about those that only portray themselves to be Veterans at powwows?

At powwows they have the Veteran's Dance, honoring those who have served and fought in wars, and ONLY the Veterans dance this dance, but there are those who are fakes and join them and just will not stay out of the circle until it is time for everyone else to join the Veterans in their dance. There is one man who goes as far as putting on camos and army garb and another person from his rez said, "for as long as I've known him, he has never served in any military". Does he do this for any honorarium there may be for the Veterans, or for the "glory" or what? I think it is disrespectful. How do you all feel about it? And what can be done about these "fakes" at powwows?

[bqueton]

I've noticed a trend of that going on around here too. There is a color guard here around Tulsa that consists of all fancy dancers and what I noticed is that most of them are non-veterans. Yeah it looks nice for all the non-powwow people out there to sight-see but don't disrespect the veterans out there that still have respect for flags and what they stand for.

As for the person you described; maybe they dance for someone close to them that they've lost (father, brother, etc.) that they dance for in remembrance even though the attire is still a bit of an outrage.

[Ndnsoldierboy11b]

I know the color guard doesn't have to be veterans. Just folks who are asked to carry the colors...But its preferred that the color guard be vets....

But the dance is different. I haven't run into that on my rez, but I have read articles on fake vets out there wearing some medals and ribbons they haven't earned, or even served a day in the military...And its a crime too, if you can believe that.

If they are dancing out there during a veterans honor song and they shouldn't be, isn't that up to the committee to ask them to leave? Cause someone should know if that person ever put anytime in the military. The mocassin telegraph travels fast...but fast enough to stop this, I don't know. Its a moral issue on that person to deal with.


Ndnsoldierboy11b:flag:

Cobra 1-1 out.
________________________________________

"Back to the Front!!!"

Disposable Heroes- METALLICA

[amo]

Depends on what you did for the people
Was it something acculturally significant to the people's way of life......
Did he/she dance at a young age....
Is it taught by the patorial family (Uncles....so on so fort)......
Did he/she go to the mountains to seek out a power....
Do they (he/she) have a boy's Indian name or man's Name....
Is their father still alive to give them their man's Indian name....
Are they (parents separated) for their boy/girl to get one Indian name....
Daring skills smoke jumpers, firefighters, ect.......
The family was handed down from time of war between ourselves and the United States or other (french, brits).....
Painted eagle feather or scalps from other Indian Bands pre war time.....
They (he/she) could not go to war present becasue they were the only child in the family to carry on the namesake....
They (he/she) are recognized by the people for epic battles between the U.S. vs. the Indians....
Your Indian world comes first for the people...to spiritually heal other people or tell the future what is going to happen......
A spiritual gift for the good of the people to help mankind.....
Military for U.S. Armed Forces individual(s) that join to serve their people and country is different in repsects to:
Article 13 or 14 that most Indian(s) plea(s) to get out of the service because of the wording in the Treaties "...shall not bear arms against the United States...".....
They Indians that serve for one or two years get out because of the Articles 13 or 14 in the USMJC.....
I observe no shame in this if this is what they (Indians servicemen short term) wanted to do...it done....
Pow Wow's are different in regards to warfare amongst Indian to Indian to honor the eagle feather in highest regards....
Thus, mentioned above about spiritual helper or healing process for the people.....
Most people acting in part of history tell this to somebody in respect honor and give something (material wealth or monatory to drummers, dancers or people)....
Pow Wow's MC's or headman/woman dancers, floor man/woman, or whipman/woman all should know this in the first place....that is why they are choosen to lead in their positions.....
Most say if they Men/women who served the full term of duties and get an Honorable Discharge from the United States Armred Forces...they earned it...others claim that is not right if a man/woman serve and quit claiming the above mentioned USMJC...
they are in the right to dance in the Veteran's dance...
Its up to the Pow Wow Committee to let who, what, where and how a Vet can participate....

[Speedyâ„¢]

Originally posted by amo
Depends on what you did for the people
Was it something acculturally significant to the people's way of life......
Did he/she dance at a young age....
Is it taught by the patorial family (Uncles....so on so fort)......
Did he/she go to the mountains to seek out a power....
Do they (he/she) have a boy's Indian name or man's Name....
Is their father still alive to give them their man's Indian name....
Are they (parents separated) for their boy/girl to get one Indian name....
Daring skills smoke jumpers, firefighters, ect.......
The family was handed down from time of war between ourselves and the United States or other (french, brits).....
Painted eagle feather or scalps from other Indian Bands pre war time.....
They (he/she) could not go to war present becasue they were the only child in the family to carry on the namesake....
They (he/she) are recognized by the people for epic battles between the U.S. vs. the Indians....
Your Indian world comes first for the people...to spiritually heal other people or tell the future what is going to happen......
A spiritual gift for the good of the people to help mankind.....
Military for U.S. Armed Forces individual(s) that join to serve their people and country is different in repsects to:
Article 13 or 14 that most Indian(s) plea(s) to get out of the service because of the wording in the Treaties "...shall not bear arms against the United States...".....
They Indians that serve for one or two years get out because of the Articles 13 or 14 in the USMJC.....
I observe no shame in this if this is what they (Indians servicemen short term) wanted to do...it done....
Pow Wow's are different in regards to warfare amongst Indian to Indian to honor the eagle feather in highest regards....
Thus, mentioned above about spiritual helper or healing process for the people.....
Most people acting in part of history tell this to somebody in respect honor and give something (material wealth or monatory to drummers, dancers or people)....
Pow Wow's MC's or headman/woman dancers, floor man/woman, or whipman/woman all should know this in the first place....that is why they are choosen to lead in their positions.....
Most say if they Men/women who served the full term of duties and get an Honorable Discharge from the United States Armred Forces...they earned it...others claim that is not right if a man/woman serve and quit claiming the above mentioned USMJC...
they are in the right to dance in the Veteran's dance...
Its up to the Pow Wow Committee to let who, what, where and how a Vet can participate....

If you haven't served in war, or AT ALL, I don't care WHAT RACE YOU ARE, you have no right to dictate what a veteran can and cannot do when it comes to such things. Only another vet. In a perfect world veteran's dances ansd warrior's dances would be handled by VETERAN'S and WARRIOR'S and no one else. 11B NDN soldierboy talked about the veteran wannabees. We call them PX warriors. They buy all thier ribbons at the PX and lie about where they have been and what they have done. Fortunately for those of us who have been there, we can sniff them out pretty easily. The same way most skins sniff out wannabe natives. But what chaps my *** the most is to hear natives discredit another natives service record by saying "What has he done for his people?" That person is a veteran and should never have to suffer the criticism of someone who has never served anything at all. For someone who has never served to tell me I'm not "veteran" enough to dance, is like a white person telling me I'm not "native" enough to dance. Regardless of their color, when veteran's attend a powwow, they should be honored no matter their color. Before anyone gets above themselves and starts telling vets who they are and what they've done they should ask themselves "Were you there?".

If not, then leave veteran's matters to veteran's and shut the hell up.

:Yell AGAINST ALL ODDS! 1/32 INF 10th MTN DIV
FIRST to FIRE 1/15th FA 2nd INF DIV
BLACK KNIGHTS 2/5 CAV 1st CAV DIV

[WolfTears]

I am with ya on that Speedy . When I go in I am not only there for me but for my husband who was a Veit Nam wounded purple heart bronze metal vet , my brothers lost in the war an a sister who served in the Navy for my mom an dad who most times cant be there an for my Son. Unless they walk the shoes of a vet I am with ya shut the ........................******** up . Unless you know them let them be until given reason to approach them . Not everything is what it seems . Just my 2!

[CHEROSAGE]

Greetings all.
I know some of these folks that are mentioned. We had a gentleman in OK that tells people that he was a Marine but actually never had served. He has a lot of people fooled. He has to travel about to find places where people don't know him.

I am a RET. VET. but was not in combat, though I did serve through several different campaigns. I will not take a front row place if htere are war VET's around. I believe this is right.

[amo]

I was just answering the question from objibiwaysweet.

I believe their are people that live in a fantsy world of an Native American Veteran and whatever person that is just wants to be recognized at powwows...for whatever reasons. I do not know...

Yes, Veteran's are recognized for serving in the United States Military Service...whatever branch of service that is navy seals ect... take your pick.
Like my grandfather, uncle(s) and aunt(s) (WWII to present)before me all my family served in the United States military and all of us are enshired in our tribal Veteran's War memorial. So, is all the people that fought the war against the U.S. Calvary and all other Indian Bands that tried to take are land that we live on today... Great Almighty God gave us this part of the earth to take care of...
No offense speedy but your temper is pretty eradict.

The two posts after objibiwaysweet was about color guards and my post was just about a time that is gone and Indian people in general is what is all about in reference to all Veteran's. Native American Veteran is just part of Indian Nation from the center of universe from where we all stand to speak...hopefully for good will of the people as a whole.

I served the military I just don't brag about it. Remember the people talk about us.......

[WolfTears]

I dont brag about it , as a matte of fact unless you are in our family circle you have no idea what I did or where I have been in my life , I have no need to speak about what I have done where I have been , I look to where I am going . Yes I posted here because I am proud of who I am , an where I have been . Unfortunatley (sp) for those that do know me , I cant recall allot of who I was or many things . But today I am just happy to know where I am going .

All of us , address every topic in a diffrent way some are passionate about how they feel others are laid back an then some just talk .. It is everyone's right to speak on how they feel . Unless we are attacked out right we just kinda go with the flow around here ..
Wink wink to those who know what I mean ..Peace till we meet again !

[amo]

I do not know where you are coming from...
I thought this program was good....


Here I am defending something I do not know what going on.
I have pennies....not dollars.

[amo]

'wolf tears
I forget.
I served more years in the military than you did.
In fact, two tours of duty.
One as a Corporal.
Other as a Specialist.
Eight years of service in United States Military

[amo]

I do not like to talk about it .

Cry like a baby...
I do not know what thats is like
I do not like to be dist...
I am what I am I am...
So, do not, make something that your people did not make you....
Most of us people only have 3 or 4 thousand to cope with...

[amo]

I agree with wolf.
I am lost.
I am amo.
I lost track of time.
I am wrong in my decisions]
forgive me.

[amo]

I was ready to dance in grand entry.
I was confronted and asked to carry in the U.S. flag
I was just a pup.
I did not know that I possesed whipmanship leadership.
The people knew about it but I was baffled.
I didn't know any better.....
This took place in 1980s
About 15 years before I did join the service.
I am just trying to keep the thread going........

[Ndnsoldierboy11b]

I try to go to pow-wows but, lately I have been a little busy...:Chatter

I have done the grand entry a few times and even judged a few contests dances as well.(wasasked to be a judge)

I am usually in my class A uniform when you see me at a pow-wow.

Ndnsoldierboy11b:flag: