Hail to the Thief

[alamosaurus]

The brazen corruption of the Republican Right never ceases to
amaze me. First it was Nixon and Watergate--a minor affair
compared to what this administration has done. Then, in the
1980's it was Iran-Contra. There is some evidence that the
Iranians were paid off not to release the hostages--if this is the
case, then the Reagan administration was guilty of TREASON.
The siezure of an embassy is an act of war, and the Reagan
people were giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
Now, we find out that GWB has lied to start a WAR in which
500+ American soldiers and thousands of Iraqis have been
killed. And the Bush administration has compounded the lie by
rewarding the contract to rebuild Iraq to Haliburton--Cheney's
own company. If this is not conflict of interest, then I have some
ocean front property in Arizona I would like to sell you.....
Bush, Cheney, and their foul crew should not just be voted out
of office--they should be impeached NOW!

[alamosaurus]

More on the Iraqi situation:

It was the Reagan administration that created Saddam Hussein--
to be our proxy in fighting the Iranians. We armed him; we gave
him the technology to build weapons of mass destruction. We
did help Kuwait when he invaded it, but we gave him the O.K.
to crush the Kurdish rebellion against his dictatorship
after the first Gulf War. We turned the other way when he used
poison gas against his own people. Now, all of a sudden, we
finally discover he is a bad guy, but that still is not legal
justification for invading a sovereign state. There are a lot of
dictators in the world, and we can't take on all of them. So we
manufacture an excuse for invading Iraq and occupying the
whole country--the non-existant weapons of mass destruction.
But I think there was another reason for going into Iraq--OIL!
We think we own the rest of the world's natural resources. This
used to be called imperialism.........

[Tibiki Kinew]

Not only did you guys supply Sadamm but you also had the CIA supply the Iran side of their war with Iraq,,, don't stop there, Israel and the people of Palestine both get weapons for PEACE from the great USA. Isn't it nice to bless the weapons on both sides of a fight and make the big bucks,,,,oh dam there it is,,,,money talks,,,bullsh!t walks!!
my 2 cents!

[alamosaurus]

Reply

Don't blame me--I didn't vote for any of these idiots--not
Nixon, not Raygun, not Shrub.

[Tibiki Kinew]

Hey I never blamed you... alamosaurus !!!! :D

It is your country's government that sucks, we see it all the time, ever think about "free trade",,,so called NAFTA,,, and I MEAN SO CALLED, when the USA wants to sell it is all hunky dory,, get it to all countries involved. But turn the table to our soft wood lumber and bang the door slams in our face, now here I have one question, USA land of the great,,,, since you are being offerd our lumber cheaply, why impose tarrifs to match your own lumber prices, keep your trees standing and but from us, as well use our cheaper lumber to build habitat for humanity housing,,,isn't this a logical step.... keep the price down and use Canadian Lumber at the cheap price we can offer it to you!!! My 2 cents of the day.

[White Powwow Dancer]

Hi
Bush new nickname should be called War Monger good name for him.

[Peacekeeper83]

I must have my memory all wrong...it seems Jimmy Carter was President...when the Iranians took the hostages at the American Embassy...it also seems that within 3 months after Reagan took office..the hostages were released...why do I remember that?...I went into the Marines at that time..before I got out of Boot...the prisoners were released...
I think I have heard...that Nixon had done more for the Native Americans than any other president too...but noone hears about it..because of the Watergate issue...
About Iraq...yes...I agree it was a little too late...alot of innocent Iraqis died because we stopped when we should have pressed on to Bagdad...but we made an agreement with the other Muslim countries that we wouldn't persue any further...Terrorism has been supported in this area for years upon years..mainly it was directed at the Isrealis...then they learned that Americans wouldn't take action when it was directed at them...history shows that...I got to witness first hand that...I was in Beirut in 1983...the largest non nucleur explosion on this earth since WW2 took out the Marine headquarters at the Beirut Airport...earlier that same year....a car bomb took out the American Embassy...I was at the embassy only days before...it has came out that Iran financed the destruction in Beirut..did the US retaliate?...no...then came the bombings in Africa..and Saudi....did Clinton do anything?...no...then the Cole.....then the World Trade Center Towers...finally...someone decides enough is enough...so we go after the people sponsering the terrorism......now you guys sit in here whining about yer Democratic views about why the Republicans are so full of crap....you are not even providing the correct facts in this discussion...kinda like arm chair quarterbacks..
What worse...both of the parties are full of crap...neither one looking out for the working man...both playing lip service to what their parties supposedly stand for...and for the Canadians...who chastise the American way...there is a reason you don't have a large military..you rely on the US military to cover you.because of your location...you can act like your passive..but the facts are the facts...the US and British governments have always covered your best interests..you have the luxery of being able to sit back and critique whats happening in the world...when you know..you don't have to play a major role in the protection in the peace process...it shows when we catch terrorists coming into the Us through your borders...ie..up in Washington State....
We are all Indegenous people of this land...Native Americans..on either side of the border..and we have become citizens of each of our respected countries.We as American Indians have fought for this country since the early days...per capita...we are the most represented race within the American military..at times of war...some tribes even had as much as 80% of their tribal members in the military..We will feel the effects of any attack on American soil..and we as a People will defend this land more fierce than anyone else..because this land belongs to Us...
I know people in Washington DC make mistakes...they are as human as anyone else..as I said before..I don't trust any politician...they are all crooks...from the local governments on up...but...I will not sit by and allow this country to be destroyerd by terrorists....and take what little of this land and culture we have retained..
Say what you may...I have served in the Marines for 7 years..my father served...as did his...I have seen first hand...what you have't..I know what has happened in places..that the media didn't report..or colored over...I admit...I don't know everything..or pretend to...but I can speak on what my eyes have seen.

[alamosaurus]

1. The Reagan people paid of the Iranians before the
election to embarass Carter so that he would lose the
election.
2. Saddam was never a terrorist threat to the U.S. Only
to his own people. We could have deposed him with a
covert operation.
3. The REAL source of terrorism is Saudi Arabia. Didn't you
notice that almost all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis, as
is Osama Bin Laden? If there is any country in the middle
east that we should have invaded it is Saudi Arabia. But
the Bush administration is in bed with the corrupt Saudi
Royal Family. They use him and he is too dumb to realize
it.

[Stirbaby]

I must have my memory all wrong.

( Well, not all wrong, but wrong about some things, like i am, and most of us are}

...it seems Jimmy Carter was President...when the Iranians took the hostages at the American Embassy...

{ Carter didn't guard the embassy, nor was he running the CIA. the CIA was behind the hostages capture, and they work for what Eisenhower called the Military Industrial complex. I often wonder how many would have died if a Republican had been in Office, perhaps WWIII}

it also seems that within 3 months after Reagan took office..the hostages were released...

{ WELL, it seemed like it happened the afternoon that Reagan was Inaugurated, like during the acceptance speech.
If Bush can blame his troubles on the Dems, can Dems accept the praise for the hostages release.}


why do I remember that?...


{Well, you don't remember that because it didn't happen}


I went into the Marines at that time..before I got out of Boot...the prisoners were released...

{They must have heard you were on your way}

I think I have heard...that Nixon had done more for the Native Americans than any other president too...

{That's like saying that rapist is better because he doesn't break both your arms when he holds you down, or , the devil is good, because he passes out sunscreen in hell}

but none hears about it..

{If the Republican base, who believe GOD gave them the America because the Savages needed Jesus, thought that their Nixon was helping the RED MAN, they would have impeached his ***}

because of the Watergate issue...

{Remember, Nixon had nothing to do with Watergate. He lied to congress about his participation in the cover-up, but that was the least of his sins. Remember Cambodia, carpet bombing of indigenous people}

About Iraq...yes...I agree it was a little too late...
{And built on lies, and so on}
allot of innocent Iraqis died because we stopped when we should have pressed on to Baghdad...

but we made an agreement with the other Muslim countries that we wouldn't pursue any further...

{Is there any evidence of this claim}
Terrorism has been supported in this area for years upon years..mainly it was directed at the Israelis...

{Terrorism , the modern version, was developed by the Jews in the Ghettos of Warsaw Poland. they were Freedom fighters, remember?
the Jews brought their new form of fighting to Palestine, and used it fight the British, then the Palestinians.}

then they learned that Americans wouldn't take action when it was directed at them...history shows that...
{Remember the Maine. remember the Alamo. Remember Little big Horn.
Remember the Gulf of tolken.
Remember 9/11.
And Granada, and Panama, and Guatemala, and Nicaragua, and the Philippines, and so many more.the USA is , has been, and will always be a government of lies}

I got to witness first hand that...I was in Beirut in 1983...the largest non nuclear explosion on this earth since WW2 took out the Marine headquarters at the Beirut Airport...earlier that same year....a car bomb took out the American Embassy...I was at the embassy only days before...it has came out that Iran financed the destruction in Beirut..did the US retaliate?...no...then came the bombings in Africa..and Saudi....did Clinton do anything?
{Like invade the wrong country, well, I guess you are right. And did the World trade centers Fall under Bush's watch?}

...no...then the Cole.....then the World Trade Center Towers...finally...someone decides enough is enough...
{Can you say Halliburton. the reason the war is now is because they want the war under Bush administration so that Halliburton could make the war time profits}

so we go after the people sponsoring the terrorism......
{ Not the UN, and definitely not with me}

now you guys sit in here whining about your Democratic views about why the Republicans are so full of crap....

{You miss the point. Its not the republicans, its people. I would be a crook with enough power. we all would be. The answer is god, not man. but, the Dems have stood for the average worker, while the Refuges have stood on the average worker}

you are not even providing the correct facts in this discussion...
{ Well, facts do seem an endangered species when discussing bush}
kinda like arm chair quarterbacks..
{ Or like a guy who went awol during Vietnam. I think we call them chicken hawks}

What worse...both of the parties are full of crap...
{YES, we are making progress}
neither one looking out for the working man...
{well, one step forward, and two steps back}

both playing lip service to what their parties supposedly stand for...
{ uh, so you say}

and for the Canadians...
{ these are the people who created the First Nations, a concept that the USA has yet to grasp}
who chastise the American way..
{ And you are a promoter of the "American Way"}

.there is a reason you don't have a large military..
{Yes, its called no Imperialist Dreams, and a social conscience that spends collected money from the people to be spent on the educational and medical needs of the people}

you rely on the US military to cover you.because of your location...you can act like your passive..but the facts are the facts...the US and British governments have always covered your best interests..you have the luxury of being able to sit back and critique what's happening in the world...when you know..you don't have to play a major role in the protection in the peace process...it shows when we catch terrorists coming into the Us through your borders...ie..up in Washington State....

{How about the terrorist coming into the borders of New York via the country of .... Boston}
We are all Indigenous people of this land...Native Americans..on either side of the border..and we have become citizens of each of our respected countries.

{You have. I have rescinded my USA Citizenship. My soul is to important for me to throw it all away for a rag/flag}
We as American Indians have fought for this country since the early days...per capita...we are the most represented race within the American military..at times of war...some tribes even had as much as 80% of their tribal members in the military..We will feel the effects of any attack on American soil..and we as a People will defend this land more fierce than anyone else..because this land belongs to Us...
I know people in Washington DC make mistakes...{Well, the people of DC don't even have the rights of Americans s. }

they are as human as anyone else..as I said before..I don't trust any politician...they are all crooks...from the local governments on up...but...
{ But, if you pay me, give me some cool guns and neat uniforms, and have a parade for me, i will kill the indigenous people that you point me at, cause i am a warrior}

I will not sit by and allow this country to be destroyed by terrorists....
{But you have no problem with this "country" being destroyed by Capitalists}
and take what little of this land and culture we have retained..
Say what you may...I have served in the Marines for 7 years..my father served...as did his...I have seen first hand...what you haven't..I know what has happened in places..that the media didn't report..or colored over...I admit...I don't know everything..or pretend to...but I can speak on what my eyes have seen.

{The most dangerous people are the ones who , with half facts, base their decision to kill other people on pride and fear}

[whirlwind]

Peacekeeper 83

Just wanted to let you know that there are LOTS (I only personally know of two or three others that disagree) out here that agree with you. Especially in flyover country.

I have a very simply question for you other folks.

Why do you hate the United States so much, that you are willing to step aside and let it be attacked and destroyed?

Why don't you follow Stirbaby's example and get the Heck out of the US!

Ken Weidner

[alamosaurus]

Its not the United States I hate--its George Bush and his cronies.
THEY are destroying the country--getting us involved in foreign
adventures while the country's economy goes to h*ll in a
wheelbarrow at home.

[alamosaurus]

Saddam Hussein may have left something to be desired as
a leader, but he kept the islamic fundamentalists in check.
(He also gave equal rights to women). By deposing Hussein,
Bush has handed Iraq to the Islamic fundamentalists on a silver
platter. And they are MUCH worse. If I had to choose between
communists (are there any left?) and islamic fundamentalists, I
would choose the communists. They may have been power
hungry, but at least they were somewhat rational. These
Talaban types are crazier than bedbugs--and Bush has all but
turned Iraq over to them.

[whirlwind]

Alamosaurus

I've read your responses and was debating about even bothering to respond, but I think I will try, even though it obviously will do no good. You are so mired down in your emotions that you can't see facts.

The economy? You must not be watching the news. Even the liberal biased media doesn't touch this one very much lately. If you haven't heard we're in one of the most rapidly rebounding economic recoveries in the last twenty years.

Looks like George W's tax cuts ARE WORKING, just as they were supposed to.

See here is how it works. If everyone, gets to KEEP some of their money, they will spend it on whatever THEY want, not what the Government wants. This CREATES demand for goods and services which in turn creates more demand.

It's all pretty simple, if you will just think about it for a little bit.


Now for foreign policy.

I'll address Saddam's equal treatment of women. Although I must admit that this is the first time I've ever heard of that.

I guess he did treat them as equal to men. He killed them just as quickly as he killed men, plus as an added bonus many of them got to enjoy one of his rape rooms first!

I believe that we are all in agreement about Islamic Fundamentalists.

But guess what, we haven't turned Iraq over to them! We're still there trying to root them out. And they had a pretty good foot hold before we ever arrived. Lets see there was that Ansam Al Asar ( I'm not sure if the name is correct) training camp that we destroyed in the opening weeks of the war, and are still battleing the remnants.

Now this is, I'm sure some will say a selfish viewpoint, but I'd rather we fight the crazies over there than have them coming here to blow themselves up.

And by the way, there have been several Airplane flights cancelled lately. Terrorists still want to do whatever they can to destroy the USA. And beleive me, if you or your family happen to be wherever their next target is, it won't bother them to blow you or your children's bodies to bits.

I remember, but I wonder if others do, when several airplanes were flown into our buildings. If you or I had been visiting those places , we'd be dead. Your wife would be dead. Your kids would be dead. They don't care who they kill.

One cold realization that we must all come to grips with is that the world is now a different place. We will be attacked again. It's just a matter of time, and frequency. Hopefully attacks will be niped in the bud, as they have been, and why hasn't George W been given any credit for that?


I'll now go on the offensive, and hit a coule of typical Democratic complaints that you haven't been offered up yet.

How about the lack of International support for our invasion?

That is a slap on the face to all the nations that have joined us in our fight. Nations such as England, Spain, Italy, Australia, Poland, etc.......

Lets see the ones who opposed us were France, Germany, Russia, most Mid Eastern countries, etc....

Now fast forward to the recently discovered bribes of Irag's oil for FOOD, Did you catch that, Saddam was supposed to, (under UN sanctions) trade oil for FOOD TO FEED HIS PEOPLE!!!!!!

Guess what, millions of barrels of oil were diverted for bribes to lets see, France, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Syria, etc.......

Now why do you suppose France and Russia didn't want to help us out?

Oh yes, the WMD that haven't been found. YET! Perhaps they are in Syria's hands......(granted, that is just my idea, not anything solid, so don't go quoting me on this!)(everything else in this letter is pretty well documented, but not neccesarily reported by the main stream press!!!!!)

And don't forget the never ending discussion of David Kay's report of no WMD's.

BUT when Kay was asked if the war should have been avoided and let the UN sanctions take place.

Kay said that no, the war was worth it, and that Iraq was MUCH MORE DANGEROUS THAN WE THOUGHT IT WAS.

Now, let me ask, have you heard that part of his report?

Probably not, as that is not what Peter Jennings wants you to hear. But the fact is that it is in the same report to congress that the Democrats are touting about lack of WMD's.

You know, you folks really ought to read and do some research into this stuff. You might learn something.


Ken Weidner

[quicksilverwade]

Alamosaurus, I work in Montebello so surely I may have seen you around the southern California powwow network. If not then you may not be as authentic as one might think. Which powwow clique do you associate with?

But back to the war. It was necessary and proved to be the right choice. We've got to sacrifice soldiers and possibly civilians to be able to get the point across and that is don't fyck with the USA. It doesn't matter if it's Bush, Carter, Nixon or Clinton they are all one in the same (WASICUS). Every action in the past funneled into September 11, 2001 and now that the USA captured Saddam it still isn't over. It's a dog eat dog world, every man or country for himself!