Spectator Dancing

[hobbs49]

I admit I have seen some crazy spectators who gave their best/worse interpretation of what Indian dancing is. Sometimes it does appear as disrespectful.

But there are also positive experiences. At a recent powwow in DC, there was a really good feeling as hundreds of spectators danced during the intertribals.

I heard comments from some of my friends who are top dancers that this was the most audience participation that they had ever seen.

To the best of my knowledge, no spectator was dancing inappropriately.

The feeling was so good, I even got out there in street clothes and one of our hearing impaired guest's came and danced with me!

I agree WhoMe! I wasn't suggesting that spectators shouldn't get out and dance and have a good time. I wasn't able to make that dance, but it sounds awesome! Heck, everyone has to have a first time and likely that first time will be in street clothes. It's that flexibility that brings people into the circle for without that first experience, you're likely never to make it a part of your culture.

You also hit upon another thing and that is that you went out and danced with someone, and given that they were hearing impared, you probably helped them out.

Some people are thought impared and maybe the guy who sparked this whole thread just needed someone to dance with him and help him out. Maybe I missed an opportunity there. But at the same time, I can be somewhat heritage impared, and if the dude was native, well... I preferred not to go there.

By the way WhoMe, since DC is right there by Virginia and NC, did all the spectators come out and do the hold-each-others-hand-round-dance? That's one of my regional favorites here

[WhoMe]

I agree WhoMe! I wasn't suggesting that spectators shouldn't get out and dance and have a good time. I wasn't able to make that dance, but it sounds awesome! Heck, everyone has to have a first time and likely that first time will be in street clothes. It's that flexibility that brings people into the circle for without that first experience, you're likely never to make it a part of your culture.

You also hit upon another thing and that is that you went out and danced with someone, and given that they were hearing impared, you probably helped them out.

Some people are thought impared and maybe the guy who sparked this whole thread just needed someone to dance with him and help him out. Maybe I missed an opportunity there. But at the same time, I can be somewhat heritage impared, and if the dude was native, well... I preferred not to go there.

By the way WhoMe, since DC is right there by Virginia and NC, did all the spectators come out and do the hold-each-others-hand-round-dance? That's one of my regional favorites here

Hobbs,

You're right about the hearing impaired lady. Everybody has to start somewhere and I wanted her first cultural exchange in the dance arena to be a positive one.

It's funny you asked about the round dance....

It was Sunday evening. All the ties had been danced. It was time to announce winners and... somebody gave me the high sign to stall for 10-minutes while they finished up the tabulations.

So I just called for all the spectators to come down for a round dance! It was great! Dancers and spectators alike danced to Battle River and Southern Thunder - holding hands, holding babies and holding new snags!!!!!!

[crazywolf]

I have seen this at Powwows myself mostly to the east of Oklahoma
I cant speak for Northern Powwows
But for a time I lived in the east and they seem to take the Arena waaay too seriously!
I can understand the rope going around the dance arena and the haybails but to only enter from the east and have to be smudged before you go in
Come on! a bit much

I have seen the dances with wolves dancers usually wearing sleeveless leather vest unadorned and minnetonka moccs doing the kick dance that looks like they are having dry heaves

Around here I dont see that too much at all
No ropes or haybales
benches usually
only occasionally have to explain to someone the bench is for dancers not spectators that did not bring chairs
hahahahaha

You don't get to Florida much do you? At just about dern near EVERY pow wow down here they smudge before EVERY dance, and take it seriously. When they come to me standing in line there, I usually just tell them, that I smudged back at camp.

Down here, they believe that smudging removes all of the bad things and negativity. What I can't stand, is going by their logic, that when the smudging is done the guy gives you a hug. Well if he didn't smudge before he starts smudging people (and usually they dont) well didnt he just transfer some of his negativity back to you? Its like the cooties man.

This is what I believe. Smudging, no matter what you use, sage, creosote, or flat cedar, is used to cover body odor. Its very effective at it. What I was told by my elders, was that the spirits don't come around if you smell bad, so you smudge to make it better for them. Makes sense. Dunno about the negativity part though. I still feel the same after I got smudged as before.

Now that aside, as far as these crazy non-indian dances with wolves wannabes go, I have no problem sharing the arena with any one of them. Any number of those people can get into the circle with me and dance any way they want to their hearts pleasure. Its what the circle is there for, to call all nations together to socialize and have fun. Just please... stay out of my way, really. Too many times these people do not watch where they are going and end up in a 5 dancer pileup. Sometimes its just kids that do nothing but run around the circle, usually an older sibling followed by 2-3 younger brothers and sisters. I have seen people dancing with their eyes closed, which I myself do, but when I do so I am intune with just about everyone there, and I have never hit anyone, not once. These people go off into some other world, literally. I have even seen one get pretty close to the drum. He didnt make it, was intercepted by the AD and escorted out, and spoken to. Good Job!

Too many times I have to slow down or even stop what I am doing, because some little kid gets underfoot (thats not a dancer). I have come really close to finding speedbumps out there. Too many times I have swatted people, I try to keep my distance, really. Many times I have walked out because there just isnt room to dance out there anymore, at least, not the way I dance.

Derek

[Eagle Plumes]

as said before there has been a few interesting folks but I also think others are drawn to the circle as well. We were at a dance and all afternoon I saw a man and his parents and the son had Downs he would stand at the very edge of the arena and bounce. I went over to his mom and asked if he would like to join us? She said Oh I really dont know if he would. So I asked if he would come out with me and if at any tiem he felt uneasy I would take him back to him mom. He came out with me , we held hands and we went around several times, she later came over to me and thank'd me for being so kind to her son that it at times was hard for them, people were not so nice alot of the time. I told her that he was a great dance partner and I enjoyd my self as well.

[between2worlds]

Yeah, the DC spectators were awesome. There were a couple of ladies doing something that looked like a hoe-down move (you know choo-chooing with their arms - it was hard not to chuckle) and a few others that were beat-impaired but you could tell they were out there with all their hearts.

The only problem with spectators and dancing came on Saturday intertribals when the photogs started setting up their tripods in the arena DURING the dancing (and not just in the middle or on a corner or something) - then stopping random dancers and asking them to pose for pictures. You wanna talk about a traffic jam with random speedbumps *laffs* The MC finally came on and asked everyone to stop taking pictures for the next 6 songs so the "ndn people could visit one another in peace during the intertribals"

One other small request to parents of small (ie under 4 feet) children. Wheelchairs are not something to play chicken with, throw things under to retrieve while the chair is moving or to try to jump over the front of while in motion. This didn't happen in DC but has happened other places. One little fancy shawl dancer thought it was cute to repeatedly leap over Miika's foot plate during an intertribal. We have both left the arena on more than one occassion because we will not harm little ones (or anyone else for that matter). There is no such thing as a "gentle nudge" from a 2-4 hundred pound chair even going slowly (mass time velocity equals force, folks).

[ac_miss]

Eagles Plumes.....that's a great positive story. You have so much compassion that we should all take a lesson of compassion from you. :-)

[ac_miss]

EAGLE PLUMES.....great story. I think we should all learn a lesson of compassion from you.

[OLChemist]

Thanks for the kindness. Those of us with Down's family members really appreciate a break from the exclusion that is so common in the dominant culture. My brother has never been mistreated in the circle (or the broader Native community), which is more that I can say for the "good" suburban, dominant culture neighborhood where he and my folks live. (I can tell you some stories about how these "nice" educated people have behaved.)

[Eagle Plumes]

Yrs ago when I was a still living at home we had a neighbor that had a daughter with downs she was older than me but I still enjoyed spending time with her I would tell her Rochelle you have a heart as big as the sky! She would smile, laugh and say I know. I would go to school about the same time she was picked up to go to work, and we would get home about the same time and we would share how our days went. I dont think I ever heard an unkind word ever come out of her mouth, and always met you with a huge smile and a hug. I guess that why I wanted to mame any who dare be mean to her , and I would make them come and speak to her in the rite way and to say sorry for being ugly. She was the preachers daughter and they moved to anotehr church after a while , it was not a move I wanted but knew she had to.

[timmy tiger]

I was at a pow wow once and a young woman came up to me as we were standing in line for grand entry. She seemed unsure of where she should be and started talking to me. She asked me if she could go in with me and I, of course, said "yeah sure". She thanked me afterward and that was all that I could remember. Then the very next year a woman came up to me all happy and knowing my name. She asked me if I remembered her (I'm sorry that I didn't---I met so many people at that Pow Wow) and she told me that I did her the biggest favor and was so nice to her and that I helped her out alot. I didn't think that I had done all that much, but she sure was happy and it made me feel good. But I really didn't do all that much.

On another note. I, too, have seen some of the most interesting things. For a couple of years there were these two guys who would come to this one pow wow that I go to. When the MC would call for all the Vets to come into the circle, these guys came out wearing shorts, sandles (with socks on) and neckties around their heads with the knot in it like when you tie it around your neck and it hung down the side of their faces. The one was carrying some kind of rattle and when they came around where I was standing at the edge of the circle, the one guy looked right at me and shook that rattle like he was shaking it towards me for some reason. A few feet closer and I would have put it somewhere.LOL I haven't seen them there in several years.

[shay8317]

I thought I would share a story from a powwow I went to in june.

I myself am a spectator currently (am hoping to learn to dance). The Mc had announced a dance where everyone could go out. Lots of young kids and older people went, but one thing I found really inappropriate was a girl that was maybe 14. She decided she wanted to get up and dance. She was wearing really short shorts and a bikini top! Her mom was sitting right there and let her go out there like that. She didn't even make a full circle, I don't think. Then she ran back and sat down and put a shirt on. I think that is pretty disrespectful.

[spottedeagle]

Sorry about the double post

[spottedeagle]

I don't know how many times I have seen non native women wearing short shorts and tanktops, or bikini tops try to get out there and dance.

My least favorite, but funny incident happened at a small powwow several years ago. I wanted to kick the mc's @zz. He announces the next song is a 2-step, then he explains it's a social dance and it's women's choice. He takes it a step further and says that the women are to ask the men to dance, and if they refuse the men have to give them money. You should have seen the biker mommas and hillbilly women go running to get their mits on an NDN man or his money. Then there is me, holding my 6 month old son, standing with my other 3 children while my wife is going to the bathroom. Here comes this (still think she was on something) biker momma missing half her teeth, wearing a tanktop that was at least a couple sizes to big, stuff just hangin out, her daisy dukes, flip flops, with the fluffs tied to the aligator clip in her hair. I try to explain I can't leave my son and my wife is in the bathroom and she starts demanding $20. I was getting thoroughly embarrassed since she was starting to make a scene, saying the MC said if I refused her I had to pay her money and she wanted $20. Thank god her comes my wife, having observed part of this on the walk back from the bathroom. She walks up, takes my arm and smiles saying to me "I'm sorry I took so long". Then she smiles at the biker momma and says, sorry but my"HUSBAND" promised me this dance already. I was never so happy to see my wife!!!!!!

[leesi]

Is that what they're callin' Viagra nowadays?

hilarious.........pfft.......i'm tryin' ta be 'serious' here..but not too serious..