Another contravercial tattoo question.

[Spiritflight]

Strange how many people get random tattoos these days. Everywhere. It won't keep you warm. Belonging to a group identification? Free born (without tattoos) narrows natural freedom. Because it shows your belonging to something or someone. Try body painting, can wash it up when you feel tired of looking at it after 40 years. I won't talk about sacred tattoos since I have no clue about this but generally speaking, I don't like tattoos, no matter how pretty they look. My opinion.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

This symbol was stolen by others, still misused / used today to represent evil
.

[OLChemist]

Thank you for listening.

The shame is that all my cultures symbols have been raped and overused to the point that they no longer hold any meaning. Just another reason I turned to these because they hold great meaning and with such a blind eye turned to your culture I don't see that happening to them.

You don't see it because you're an outsider. But it has happened/is happening to us. I can take you on a road trip through the US and show you: distorted images of Shalakos used as signs to denote the gender of rest rooms, a state flag with a Pueblo symbol rendered in the colors of ancient Spain, drunken bikers with medicine wheel tattoos, an Anglo storefront fortune teller who will lay out a deck of tarot cards adorned with symbols taken from Lakota ceremonial altars, appropriated Cherokee depictions of the water spider tattooed on the knee of Anglo college girl, Yeis painted on the wall of a tourist trap, fake totem poles in front of gas stations, clan crests tattooed on the arm of a man who hadn't even heard of the Tribe whose symbol he had stolen.... How long do you have for the road trip?

[renia58]

This symbol was stolen by others, still misused / used today to represent evil
.

swastika accompanied humanity since the dawn of its history, runs through all cultures and civilizations
She was also and Slavic swastika

[Joe's Dad]

Thank you for listening.



You don't see it because you're an outsider. But it has happened/is happening to us. I can take you on a road trip through the US and show you: distorted images of Shalakos used as signs to denote the gender of rest rooms, a state flag with a Pueblo symbol rendered in the colors of ancient Spain, drunken bikers with medicine wheel tattoos, an Anglo storefront fortune teller who will lay out a deck of tarot cards adorned with symbols taken from Lakota ceremonial altars, appropriated Cherokee depictions of the water spider tattooed on the knee of Anglo college girl, Yeis painted on the wall of a tourist trap, fake totem poles in front of gas stations, clan crests tattooed on the arm of a man who hadn't even heard of the Tribe whose symbol he had stolen.... How long do you have for the road trip?

And let us not forget Kokopelli.

Looks like he's playing a trumpet, eh?

[Thisistheday]

Amigo,
Very true, the swastika is just another *******ized symbol. A shame that it's original meaning has been completely lost because of its horrible misuse.
Olchemist,
As blind as you think I may be, I do see all the misuse you speak of. It is a shame. But so if other people misuse those symbols and bury their meanings beneath fake interpretations, that means I will do the same? Because guns can be used to kill, should we take them away from everyone? Just because some have incorrectly used native imagery does not mean that everyone will. Hold your judgement for the fools that deserve it.
-H

[renia58]

This symbol was stolen by others, still misused / used today to represent evil
.

This "mark" is accompanied by mankind since the dawn of its history, runs through all cultures and civilizations
He was also and Slavonic

[OLChemist]

What gives you a right to those symbols?

[wardancer]

This "mark" is accompanied by mankind since the dawn of its history, runs through all cultures and civilizations
He was also and Slavonic

renia58 : This is a moderated thread , meaning posts must be approved before they show up here. Posting the same thing over and over won't change that. I tried to delete most of the duplicates . Thanks

[wardancer]

Amigo,
Very true, the swastika is just another *******ized symbol. A shame that it's original meaning has been completely lost because of its horrible misuse.
Olchemist,
As blind as you think I may be, I do see all the misuse you speak of. It is a shame. But so if other people misuse those symbols and bury their meanings beneath fake interpretations, that means I will do the same? Because guns can be used to kill, should we take them away from everyone? Just because some have incorrectly used native imagery does not mean that everyone will. Hold your judgement for the fools that deserve it.
-H

If you have no claim to specific tribe's symbols , as you claim , then just the fact that you use any of them puts you in that category. What gives you the right to use any native symbolism ?
In the very first post you said "I have my mind made up, but again I am not looking to offend. While there is native blood in these veins, it is not much and I don't want to use that as an excuse as I was not brought up that way at all."

My opinion is that if you use them at all , you are no different than any of the other "culture thieves" !

[OLChemist]

Just because some have incorrectly used native imagery does not mean that everyone will.

Are you not hearing Native people saying, this may not be appropriate? Because, I sure am.

The fact that you think your state of mind when/about using these symbols excuses the appropriation and entitles the use, tells me you don't get it.


"...Nor is symbolic respect for Indians and their history, culture and religion enough. Again and again during the past half century I have been approached by people who want to honor and show respect for Native tradition and practice by erecting a statue or establishing a fanciful prayer garden or developing an exhibit or, worst of all, reenacting sacred Native practices. What we -- Native and whites alike -- need is not symbols of respect but respect itself."

Roger Welsch, Embracing the Fry Bread: Confessions of a Wannabe University of Nebraska Press, 2012, p141.

"A very real problem in any cross-cultural adventure is that we are not only seeing another culture and trying to understand it but also trapped in our own culture... We come to think of the way we do things as the normal way to do things, the right way to do things, the logical way to do things."

Roger Welsch, Embracing the Fry Bread: Confessions of a Wannabe University of Nebraska Press, 2012, p145.

"Far too many learn a little and then guess or presume a lot. This is dangerous because the guesses and presumptions are based in most cases on their own cultural matrix. The sum totals are inevitably wrong....

I have seen this enough times to know how the thought process goes: ...We are all humans. We eat, we tell stories, we sleep, we love, we die. There you are. And we all react to those events pretty much the same. Don't we? Well, no. We don't...."

Roger Welsch, Embracing the Fry Bread: Confessions of a Wannabe University of Nebraska Press, 2012, pp 254-255.

[Grits & Beans]

And to the artist, I would love to know more, but I am in florida so I don't know how realistic the idea of getting work from you would be.

-H

i am not a tattoo artist, i was joking around with my pws friends. funny that you said you would love to know more, and it is being spelled out for you (a waste of time tho like jd said), because you ain't trying to hear it.

deeper meaning my rear end, this isn't any different than the recent hipster dude hair trend i see recently. but anyways the realisticness of you getting ink from me would entail so much more than just highway and gasoline. its been spelled out for you and you still don't get it so im just gonna say it ain't happening.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

swastika accompanied humanity since the dawn of its history, runs through all cultures and civilizations
She was also and Slavic swastika

Yes. We discussed this here on the forum 3 years ago, very good thread.

[Joe's Dad]

Amigo,
Very true, the swastika is just another *******ized symbol. A shame that it's original meaning has been completely lost because of its horrible misuse.
Olchemist,
As blind as you think I may be, I do see all the misuse you speak of. It is a shame. But so if other people misuse those symbols and bury their meanings beneath fake interpretations, that means I will do the same? Because guns can be used to kill, should we take them away from everyone? Just because some have incorrectly used native imagery does not mean that everyone will. Hold your judgement for the fools that deserve it.
-H

If this is the case, and you are not in the group categorized as 'fakes'...eplain to us what creator gave spirits to and why.

Shouldn't be that hard since you are not in the fake group. No need to become defensive, or even aggresive. A simple answer will suffice.

[Thisistheday]

This will be my last post.
Thank you all. My opinions have been changed. However not just the ones related to tattoos.
My eyes have been opened, both to my sub-surface interpretations of your culture, and your unwillingness to accept someone so curious and inspired by it.
I whole heartedly understand. Perhaps some of you should simply think about the way you convey your ideals, especially to someone you do not know.
And to grits & beans,
Sorry I misunderstood. It is hard to tell sarcasm in written text so I simply read what you wrote and replied politely. Good joke.

What a great community you all have here.
Funny that you think that I wasted /your/ time.

-Hassun