Another contravercial tattoo question.

[gilisi]

i am not a tattoo artist, i was joking around with my pws friends. funny that you said you would love to know more, and it is being spelled out for you (a waste of time tho like jd said), because you ain't trying to hear it.

deeper meaning my rear end, this isn't any different than the recent hipster dude hair trend i see recently. but anyways the realisticness of you getting ink from me would entail so much more than just highway and gasoline. its been spelled out for you and you still don't get it so im just gonna say it ain't happening.

Does this mean u aint gonna do that tattoo i wanted of ryan red corn wearing a man bun?

dammit.

[milehighsalute]

hey thisistheday.........why dont you copy a local gangs name and symbol/logo and walk around thir hood and see how that works out for you?

if you wouldnt do that to them why would you do that to us?

[Spiritflight]

What if it's an imported cultural symbol to have made "one's own" because it's required from the govt. in timelenght of a few hundret years when generations were told to have that as their own? Following generations see it as their own when it isn't. Many different symbols in society groups from many different backgrounds or ideals. I think you can only make a symbol your own either if get born into that group believe and maybe change it once you are grown if you don't like it or you make yourself part of groups with whatever they hold as their own symbols, if the group wants you to be part of it.

[OLChemist]

"My own culture's symbols are meaningless" is the argument of someone who wants to show off how "different" they are from the rest of their cultural cohorts.

Well, said.

I go have a little emergency surgery and I missed a really good response.

[RDNKJ]

...they will not be visible, again they aren't to show off, they would be to hold a meaning to me...The shame is that all my cultures symbols have been raped and overused to the point that they no longer hold any meaning.

I make no comment concerning cultural appropriation; I am unqualified to opine in this context.

However...you say that your own culture's symbols (i.e., symbols you actually would have a right to) have no meaning anymore. It would seem that if your planned ink were truly for yourself only, and not to be shown off, then it wouldn't matter how overused or "raped" those symbols have been because only yourself and any intimates would see them anyway. Symbols have the meaning(s) we ascribe to them. If a symbol is meaningful to you, then it is meaningful, regardless of what others have done with that symbol.

"My own culture's symbols are meaningless" is the argument of someone who wants to show off how "different" they are from the rest of their cultural cohorts.

[DeafElderWoman]

Instead of using tattoos, how about using henna to find the right designs on the skin?

My daughter-in-law has hennas to put design on people's arms or hands or necks or body parts (not sure if that would be comfortable to show off).

I want to have henna designs on my skins but never did. I have never have tattoos (I am glad I don't have to have tattoos) either. I have not decide what I want to have it on my arm or body part.

[milehighsalute]

This will be my last post.
Thank you all. My opinions have been changed. However not just the ones related to tattoos.
My eyes have been opened, both to my sub-surface interpretations of your culture, and your unwillingness to accept someone so curious and inspired by it.
I whole heartedly understand. Perhaps some of you should simply think about the way you convey your ideals, especially to someone you do not know.
And to grits & beans,
Sorry I misunderstood. It is hard to tell sarcasm in written text so I simply read what you wrote and replied politely. Good joke.

What a great community you all have here.
Funny that you think that I wasted /your/ time.

-Hassun

wait.....dont go......i wanna be your friend

[milehighsalute]

Wardancer,
It is not just anyones' opinion I care about. But the people who's heritage defines these symbols opinion does matter to me. I would never want to offend a people who's ideals and culture gives me such rich inspiration.
-H

here is my opinion......you are looking for "symbolism" right? and you claim to have native blood.......its ok......almost all of your type make such claims also

but if you have to ask.....then that means the "symbolism" is NOT for you

why dont you look deeper into your own white culture and get a tat done that means something to you and honors YOUR ancestors?

[Thisistheday]

This will be my last post.
Thank you all. My opinions have been changed. However not just the ones related to tattoos.
My eyes have been opened, both to my sub-surface interpretations of your culture, and your unwillingness to accept someone so curious and inspired by it.
I whole heartedly understand. Perhaps some of you should simply think about the way you convey your ideals, especially to someone you do not know.
And to grits & beans,
Sorry I misunderstood. It is hard to tell sarcasm in written text so I simply read what you wrote and replied politely. Good joke.

What a great community you all have here.
Funny that you think that I wasted /your/ time.

-Hassun

[Joe's Dad]

Amigo,
Very true, the swastika is just another *******ized symbol. A shame that it's original meaning has been completely lost because of its horrible misuse.
Olchemist,
As blind as you think I may be, I do see all the misuse you speak of. It is a shame. But so if other people misuse those symbols and bury their meanings beneath fake interpretations, that means I will do the same? Because guns can be used to kill, should we take them away from everyone? Just because some have incorrectly used native imagery does not mean that everyone will. Hold your judgement for the fools that deserve it.
-H

If this is the case, and you are not in the group categorized as 'fakes'...eplain to us what creator gave spirits to and why.

Shouldn't be that hard since you are not in the fake group. No need to become defensive, or even aggresive. A simple answer will suffice.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

swastika accompanied humanity since the dawn of its history, runs through all cultures and civilizations
She was also and Slavic swastika

Yes. We discussed this here on the forum 3 years ago, very good thread.

[Grits & Beans]

And to the artist, I would love to know more, but I am in florida so I don't know how realistic the idea of getting work from you would be.

-H

i am not a tattoo artist, i was joking around with my pws friends. funny that you said you would love to know more, and it is being spelled out for you (a waste of time tho like jd said), because you ain't trying to hear it.

deeper meaning my rear end, this isn't any different than the recent hipster dude hair trend i see recently. but anyways the realisticness of you getting ink from me would entail so much more than just highway and gasoline. its been spelled out for you and you still don't get it so im just gonna say it ain't happening.

[OLChemist]

Just because some have incorrectly used native imagery does not mean that everyone will.

Are you not hearing Native people saying, this may not be appropriate? Because, I sure am.

The fact that you think your state of mind when/about using these symbols excuses the appropriation and entitles the use, tells me you don't get it.


"...Nor is symbolic respect for Indians and their history, culture and religion enough. Again and again during the past half century I have been approached by people who want to honor and show respect for Native tradition and practice by erecting a statue or establishing a fanciful prayer garden or developing an exhibit or, worst of all, reenacting sacred Native practices. What we -- Native and whites alike -- need is not symbols of respect but respect itself."

Roger Welsch, Embracing the Fry Bread: Confessions of a Wannabe University of Nebraska Press, 2012, p141.

"A very real problem in any cross-cultural adventure is that we are not only seeing another culture and trying to understand it but also trapped in our own culture... We come to think of the way we do things as the normal way to do things, the right way to do things, the logical way to do things."

Roger Welsch, Embracing the Fry Bread: Confessions of a Wannabe University of Nebraska Press, 2012, p145.

"Far too many learn a little and then guess or presume a lot. This is dangerous because the guesses and presumptions are based in most cases on their own cultural matrix. The sum totals are inevitably wrong....

I have seen this enough times to know how the thought process goes: ...We are all humans. We eat, we tell stories, we sleep, we love, we die. There you are. And we all react to those events pretty much the same. Don't we? Well, no. We don't...."

Roger Welsch, Embracing the Fry Bread: Confessions of a Wannabe University of Nebraska Press, 2012, pp 254-255.

[wardancer]

Amigo,
Very true, the swastika is just another *******ized symbol. A shame that it's original meaning has been completely lost because of its horrible misuse.
Olchemist,
As blind as you think I may be, I do see all the misuse you speak of. It is a shame. But so if other people misuse those symbols and bury their meanings beneath fake interpretations, that means I will do the same? Because guns can be used to kill, should we take them away from everyone? Just because some have incorrectly used native imagery does not mean that everyone will. Hold your judgement for the fools that deserve it.
-H

If you have no claim to specific tribe's symbols , as you claim , then just the fact that you use any of them puts you in that category. What gives you the right to use any native symbolism ?
In the very first post you said "I have my mind made up, but again I am not looking to offend. While there is native blood in these veins, it is not much and I don't want to use that as an excuse as I was not brought up that way at all."

My opinion is that if you use them at all , you are no different than any of the other "culture thieves" !

[wardancer]

This "mark" is accompanied by mankind since the dawn of its history, runs through all cultures and civilizations
He was also and Slavonic

renia58 : This is a moderated thread , meaning posts must be approved before they show up here. Posting the same thing over and over won't change that. I tried to delete most of the duplicates . Thanks