Contest Judge Horror stories

[dmoccasin]

Many pow wow committees have the best interest of the people in mind when they have a contest pow wow. However, things change when they include the human factor in evaluating and judging contest dancing. I wanted to see what other people have experienced in the past. The for instance examples.................

[ndnMSW]

Do you mean horror stories about judging contests, or horror stories about being a HEAD JUDGE???? lol....I have both.

[Kiwehnzii]

The ABSOLUTE worst thing that happened to me. I am not kidding. I was running the singing contest. Everything was going fine. This one very, awesome drum group was leading. Barring any mess-ups in the one remaining song to be judged, they was going to be in for first.

The rules were laid out. Amount of points for drum roll call were given to each head singer. They got copies of the criteria in which they were being judged.

Here is the horror. One guy from that group shows up for drum roll call! One guy! I had to mark them accordingly. That dropped them from 1st to 5th in a closely judged contest.

Holy snappin' ****holes! People who heard the same thing I did, who knew that that group should have placed higher because of their jammin' tunes were like WTF????
I woulda said the same thing. But.............. I knew why they didn't place higher.

It got worse. People on the internet were saying WTF???? How could they know if them fellas didn't show up for roll call?? I was getting blasted by people who were 2000 miles away. But........ I didn't say a word to attempt to justify anything. I knew that I didn't have to.
That's my horror story. I didn't accept the job the following year. Too much bull from people who weren't even there.
But, ya know something? Those guys were gentlemen. They knew what happened. They never said one bad word. Classy.

[ndnMSW]

Kiwehnzii, I used to live up that way and I've been to powwows where you and your spouse were head dance judges. Although it's been awhile, I remember them as being fair. Singing contests are always tough to be a head judge for. Seems like people always have alot more to say about how singing contests come out than dance contests for some reason.

*sigh* I have alot of stories, not sure they are as bad as "horror" stories, but I'll try to think of some of the funny ones.

This make take awhile......the thinking process. I'll get back to you on this one.....lol.

[dmoccasin]

Contest judge horror stories

Certainly can be a true test of own's integrity.
Hmmm. Thinking takes a lot of energy.


d

[CHEROSAGE]

I have been asked from time to time to be a judge both dancing and drum. I enjoy the challenge of being a judge. This is a difficult moment especially when there are some very good dancers. You just have to look for the right moves at the right time. What many people have to remember is that often times the Committee has set down points outside of the actual contest song. The drum contest is the same, often the drums have points for many catagories outside of their songs. Some of these may be a clean drum area, at least a certain number of singers, etc.. The judge has no control of these other points, but these judges get most of the flack when the RIGHT dancer or drum doesn't win.

[kiyaanii mom]

I was at a big money powwow recently, and I saw a lady judging her "sister in-law" Then I got to thinking, are in-laws really relatives? The lady never excused herself, and the head judge didn't subsititute her. (They had 10 rotating judges, so it seems it would have been easy to slip a replacement in.)

Then I was wondering if maybe she didn't excuse herself, because she is not legally married to the father of her two children. (In Navajo way, she is married.)

Anywayz...... so now I'm wondering, how far do we count relatives? Immediate family? distant family? Adopted family?

I think she should have excused herself. Anytime it is questionable, you should excuse yourself. That is the honorable thing to do. Her sister in-law didn't place.

[kiyaanii mom]

The ABSOLUTE worst thing that happened to me. I am not kidding. I was running the singing contest. Everything was going fine. This one very, awesome drum group was leading. Barring any mess-ups in the one remaining song to be judged, they was going to be in for first.

The rules were laid out. Amount of points for drum roll call were given to each head singer. They got copies of the criteria in which they were being judged.

Here is the horror. One guy from that group shows up for drum roll call! One guy! I had to mark them accordingly. That dropped them from 1st to 5th in a closely judged contest.

Holy snappin' ****holes! People who heard the same thing I did, who knew that that group should have placed higher because of their jammin' tunes were like WTF????
I woulda said the same thing. But.............. I knew why they didn't place higher.

It got worse. People on the internet were saying WTF???? How could they know if them fellas didn't show up for roll call?? I was getting blasted by people who were 2000 miles away. But........ I didn't say a word to attempt to justify anything. I knew that I didn't have to.
That's my horror story. I didn't accept the job the following year. Too much bull from people who weren't even there.
But, ya know something? Those guys were gentlemen. They knew what happened. They never said one bad word. Classy.

I think it would have been O.K. to post that they missed a grand entry. Then everyone would have understood.

I also think it is O.K. to remind people that the head judge doesn't score, add-up, make the contest rules. They just pick the judges.....

Sounds like the drum group and the head judge are both Classy! LOL

[chazziff]

The ABSOLUTE worst thing that happened to me. I am not kidding. I was running the singing contest. Everything was going fine. This one very, awesome drum group was leading. Barring any mess-ups in the one remaining song to be judged, they was going to be in for first.

The rules were laid out. Amount of points for drum roll call were given to each head singer. They got copies of the criteria in which they were being judged.

Here is the horror. One guy from that group shows up for drum roll call! One guy! I had to mark them accordingly. That dropped them from 1st to 5th in a closely judged contest.

Holy snappin' ****holes! People who heard the same thing I did, who knew that that group should have placed higher because of their jammin' tunes were like WTF????
I woulda said the same thing. But.............. I knew why they didn't place higher.

It got worse. People on the internet were saying WTF???? How could they know if them fellas didn't show up for roll call?? I was getting blasted by people who were 2000 miles away. But........ I didn't say a word to attempt to justify anything. I knew that I didn't have to.
That's my horror story. I didn't accept the job the following year. Too much bull from people who weren't even there.
But, ya know something? Those guys were gentlemen. They knew what happened. They never said one bad word. Classy.

my partner had a similiar experience - he was an assistant AD and a fellow singer from the drum group they both sing for was the assistant drum judge - for the casino they both worked for and there was another well known lead singer as the head drum judge and another man as the AD. and have been for years now been ASSISTANT drum judge/AD ..

well the head drum judge physically picked the judges and the assistant more or less just ran the ballots back and forth for him. any hoo one of the judges (who i might add was also from a well known drum group) really skewed the results against another well known group. he gave them a 5 (lowest possible mark and the other judges gave them 18 - 20's. well that one group ended up not placing.

and somehow or other it was my partner and his friends' drumgroup's fault!! and they didn't even judge and havn't been judges for the years the pow wow's been going!!! they knew that since they were from that area they knew something like that might happen soo when asked to judge they declined. it too was plastered all over the internet that THEY fixed the drum contest!!!

[WhoMe]

Then I was wondering if maybe she didn't excuse herself, because she is not legally married to the father of her two children.

They may have not been his! *L j/k

Anywayz...... so now I'm wondering, how far do we count relatives? Immediate family? distant family? Adopted family?

I think she should have excused herself. Anytime it is questionable, you should excuse yourself. That is the honorable thing to do.

This is a good question? Everybody has extended relatives in the powwow world. What if it is a tribal powwow like Navajo fair and your clan brothers and sisters are judging/dancing. What do you do?

[chazziff]

i remember this one time this guy held a winner take all prairie chicken special and had a bunch of elimination rounds until his brother in law (wife's brother) was picked ... everyone was like wtf!! and the dancers were like "why the hell did you guys get us to dance all those songs?!?! - you should have stood up in front of everyone and handed him an envelope of money and been done with it"

[Kiwehnzii]

How does that quote go? " All my relations"

If we are all related, how can we have a contest where everyone has to excuse themselves?

Aye. Jus kiddin', jus kiddin'.

[kiyaanii mom]

They may have not been his! *L j/k




This is a good question? Everybody has extended relatives in the powwow world. What if it is a tribal powwow like Navajo fair and your clan brothers and sisters are judging/dancing. What do you do?

Some of us half Navajos would have an easier time getting judged. LOL

Maybe we should use the standard Govt. definition of relatives, that gets used for bereavement (sp?) leave. JEEH!

[kiyaanii mom]

I have a new horror story.....

Recently (very recently) a head singing contest judge was not being fair. There were no established rules so, there was nothing to fall back to when questioning this head judge. But here are the details.

1) First round of contest songs were straight contest songs for the adult contest categories. When the drum sitting near (Drum A) me was asked to sing the last song, it was Northern men's Traditional. The 3 lead singers were all Northern Traditional Dancers in the contst. The head judge would not change the singing order or let them sing for another contest. He said, "that's the way it works out and that is the way it's done in Oklahoma." So their drum was judged on that song.

2) THe next day during the evening session. The committee had 3 specials back to back right after grand entry. So people were all wandering around and stuff, including some of the guys from this drum. Then they announced they were going to have the drum contest during the adult contest again. And the first drum was the next drum in the singing order. (About 4 drums away from these guys.) The dancers were called out (women's fancy shawl), then the head judge moved the judges down to Drum A at the last minute. 4 of the guys were out and about. So they started scrambling to find them. They got there. And in the mean time the m.c. announced that the contest song had to be a specialty song. I never heard him say it, and evidently the singers didn't either. The head judge just stood there and never told them to sing a specialty song. After the specialty song, the host drums were suppose to sing the straight song. (it's usally the straight song first then the specialty, but I know is can be changed.) Thankgoodness the singers had to wait for the mic man to bring the mic, it gave them a little more time to get it together.

3) Then they final straw, was during the same rotation, the last two songs for men's grass and men's traditional. The last drum to sing had a grass dancer at the drum. So they switched the drum rotation, so that he can contest and still sing with his drum.

It just seemed unfair.

[dmoccasin]

Contest drum horror story

Yeaaaaaauk! Follow the bouncing ball and where it lands the drum will sing. Songs like the underlying story is that someone was trying to upset the balloting process and get a favorable vote on their favorite drum. I really feel for the dancers though, as a dancer you really look forward to the perfect song.

That was a great story and how you explained the details and using letters for the drums to keep the innocent and guilty clueless.

Don