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  • Questionable website

    I just received an enquiry from one of the headsmen of the Kiowa Gourd Clan concerning a "questionable website" and the information that this website contains.

    Tell me whatcha' think?



    www.redstargourd.com/

    "On April 23, 2004, at the “Gathering of Nations“ Pow Wow in Albuquerque New Mexico, William “Two Horses“ Stogsdill, Walter “Paw-e-tan-wi“ Stogsdill, and Al “Nighthawk“ Bellamy were inducted into the Cherokee Red Star Gourd Dance Society Of New Mexico. The Cherokee Red Star of New Mexico was sanctioned as a Gourd Dance Society by the Kiowa and Comanche and brought to the New Mexico group in 1998 by Mr. Short, of Oklahoma.

    After William “Two Horses“ Stogsdill’s induction, as a long time gourd dancer, he was given the honor of being selected to be Headman of the East for the Society. In that position, he could bring the Gourd Dance to Eastern tribes and Native American veterans groups who wished to learn the dance and be sanctioned as Gourd Dance Societies."




    Hmmmmm???
    Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

  • #2
    I think they are colored impaired... just my first thought!

    Comment


    • #3
      In my opinion, this is another group who is doing things "their way."

      Anybody have any idea what Kiowas or Comanches "sanctioned" this gourd group?

      After looking over the rest of their website......


      HMMMMMMMM???????
      Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

      Comment


      • #4
        That was my question...who are they sanctioned by? I feel that its a lie.

        After looking at the first set of photos of their "naming" ceremony, I'd already made up my mind about this group, and I feel I'm pretty much right on the money in that they are not a real group.
        I think everyone on this rez is addicted to Harry Potter...lol...

        Comment


        • #5
          OMG whome dang see that what i've been screaming about its groups like that, that make me sick lol and they seem to think they have every right to do that. geeeeez...i know of a whitestar gourd clan group up north as result of pay off to somebody so they can get that type of name for the group.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by WhoMe
            "On April 23, 2004, at the “Gathering of Nations“ Pow Wow in Albuquerque New Mexico, William “Two Horses“ Stogsdill, Walter “Paw-e-tan-wi“ Stogsdill, and Al “Nighthawk“ Bellamy were inducted into the Cherokee Red Star Gourd Dance Society Of New Mexico. The Cherokee Red Star of New Mexico was sanctioned as a Gourd Dance Society by the Kiowa and Comanche and brought to the New Mexico group in 1998 by Mr. Short, of Oklahoma.

            After William “Two Horses“ Stogsdill’s induction, as a long time gourd dancer, he was given the honor of being selected to be Headman of the East for the Society. In that position, he could bring the Gourd Dance to Eastern tribes and Native American veterans groups who wished to learn the dance and be sanctioned as Gourd Dance Societies."


            Anybody heard of:

            Mr. Short from Oklahoma?

            A "Headman of the East" who through his position "could bring the Gourd Dance to Eastern tribes and Native American veterans groups who wish to learn the dance and be sanctioned as Gourd Dance Societies."

            The Cherokee Red Star Gourd Dance Society of New Mexico?
            Last edited by WhoMe; 01-30-2006, 04:32 PM.
            Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

            Comment


            • #7
              http://www.ibiadecisions.com/Ibiadec.../35ibia157.PDF

              here's something about bill "two horses" stogsdill!
              Last edited by WocusWoman; 01-30-2006, 04:57 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                WTF?
                1998?? I did plenty of powwowin' in Walters and Cache and Lawton 'round then...I never saw any of these folks in the real Comanche country LOL...what a crock!

                Mr. Short???? nevahearduvhim
                sigpic


                See my trading post ads
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                See walela49's myspace page

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by walela49
                  WTF?
                  1998?? I did plenty of powwowin' in Walters and Cache and Lawton 'round then...I never saw any of these folks in the real Comanche country LOL...what a crock!

                  Mr. Short???? nevahearduvhim
                  Then you must not have been at the 'happenin' powwows!!!


                  Jussss kiddin.


                  Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


                  "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

                  Mr. Rossie Freeman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    funny

                    frikin white guyz get your own site i hate when those kind of people do this why cant they just enjoy that we have ceromonies and not have to have them too.Stupid i hate when that happens.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Joe's Dad
                      Then you must not have been at the 'happenin' powwows!!!


                      Jussss kiddin.

                      shush you...nothin' wrong with podunkie okie powwows!! LOL
                      sigpic


                      See my trading post ads
                      See my photo gallery
                      See walela49's myspace page

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        whoa

                        now that naming ceremony lol tall squirrel and crying bird i want a cool name too
                        SOUTHERN XTREME.....WE HERE NOW!!!!! www.myspace.com/southernxtremesingers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Before I looked at their website I was wondering..........

                          Is that the same society that was wearing the garters right below their knee's and over their jeans @ Gathering of Nations in 2004????

                          And yes it is!

                          I am not happy to see things like this.
                          undefinedwww.myspace.com/ladysingerkiowa

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by southern_xtreme2k5
                            now that naming ceremony lol tall squirrel and crying bird i want a cool name too
                            O.K.... you wanna cool name...???...How about rabbits foot? Or Albino raccoon? hmmmm.... Well, since your from New Mexico, how about Coyote Ugly?
                            Kio-Manche
                            Oklahoma Proud!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by WhoMe
                              I just received an enquiry from one of the headsmen of the Kiowa Gourd Clan concerning a "questionable website"....www.redstargourd.com/
                              We are under attack from folks that think that it is their right to steal dance and song from us.

                              We don't have individually the resources to fight against it.

                              Our enemies know this.

                              Our Gourd Dance is being subverted and taken from us as if it were public domain.

                              Every pretend society that claims a bogus right to dance steals honour and effort from each of the real societies that made the effort to actually approach one of the founding Gourd Societies to gain the endowment of our dance.

                              This should not be encouraged.

                              We fight. We must fight. We cannot let these pretenders take for theirs what we have been endowed.

                              It cheapens and soils our legacy. For folks like this to claim a right they don't have, and have not even tried to obtain is despicable.

                              They simply take. Like so many before them...they simply take. Like the stock they come from, they simply take.

                              It's every Gourd Dancer's duty to show them that they cannot simply take.

                              The Gourd Dance WILL be honoured, not stolen.

                              A "Mr. Short" 'gave' the 'Red Star Society' permission on behalf of the Kiowa and Comanche to TAKE the Gourd Dance as theirs, and further to give our dance to anyone in the East??

                              Hello??

                              Who is this "Mr. Short"??

                              He is not a Gourd Clan Headsman.

                              I'm gonna guess that he's not the headsman of any real Gourd Society.

                              Every one of these circus-puppets that claim our dance and songs, and steal from our endowment, soils the legacy we hand over to those who come after us.

                              Unless we want to pass down a Gourd Dance that has clowns like these as an example, then we should all fight to uphold the traditions we have been taught.

                              Each of us Gourd Dancers have the responsability to ensure the legacy we received. Your endowment brings also the responsability of upholding the trust placed in you towards protecting the dance.

                              Protect the dance by your example of how it should be held, and kept. Protect the dance, by supporting those that keep it likewise and discourage the ones who simply steal our legacy.

                              My children will inherit the dance you protect. Your children will inherit the dance I protect.

                              Let's cooperate.
                              Scott Zotigh
                              Kiowa Black Leggings
                              Kiowa Gourd Clan
                              Kiowa Tiah Piah
                              Kiowa Marine Veterans
                              American Indian Veterans

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