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  • #16
    I'm not sure who this "Mr. Short" is bu tI know some Shorts and they are Cherokee. In fact one of my cousins married into the Short family. This particular family lives in the Lawton area.

    The website story of the group explains why some of these guys start howling like a dog in heat after each song.
    BOB

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    • #17
      I debated long and hard about posting on this topic. I would like to say I mean no disrespect to anyone here, it is not my way. But I seem to be confused about some issues and need some clarifications.

      Mr. Zotigh, I respectfully ask can you tell me exactly which gourd groups ARE sanctioned? Who is this sanctioning body? Do the Comanche or the Cheyenne have this authority or just the Kiowa? Are all Kiowa gourd dancers sanctioned, or only the ones belonging to the Kiowa Gourd Clan?

      Are any of you here sanctioned? WhoMe? Cherosage? This issue seems to be a reoccuring theme here. If the answer is no, how does this make any of you better than this group that is being criticized?

      I gourd dance. I belong to no clan, society, or group, but I try my best to do things in a right way, with respect and honor. I do not, on the other hand, view myself as a thief or any other derogatory thing I have read here. I do my best to learn the history of the dance, it's meaning, and dance with the best of my ability with honor and dignity, to pay respect to my father who fell in service, to all warriors, and to my ancestors. Could someone please educate me on these questions of mine, I'm more than willing to learn from anyone with a valid reply, to more fully understand my place in the gourd dance. If I've gone off topic, for that I am sorry, but I really need some clarification. Thank you for your time.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by streamhawk
        Are any of you here sanctioned? WhoMe? .....If the answer is no, how does this make any of you better than this group that is being criticized?.

        Shawk,

        I am a product a long line of individuals who have always been Tdia'npiahgah since it's inception.

        Even with this background, I would never "sanction" anybody.


        What is this "sanctioning bizeeness" anyways???
        Last edited by WhoMe; 02-01-2006, 02:00 PM.
        Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by WhoMe
          What is this "sanctioning bizeeness" anyways???

          lol, heck, I dunno, beats me. Perhaps I misunderstood the gist of the original post. I thought it was about the "sanctioning" of this group, and their authority to "sanction" other groups. Me, I just wanna dance and not be subject to these types of ridicule. Maybe I'll have the pleasure of dancing with you one of these daze.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by streamhawk
            lol, heck, I dunno, beats me. Perhaps I misunderstood the gist of the original post. I thought it was about the "sanctioning" of this group, and their authority to "sanction" other groups. Me, I just wanna dance and not be subject to these types of ridicule. Maybe I'll have the pleasure of dancing with you one of these daze.

            Shawk,

            The purpose of this thread was to fulfill an enquiry from one of our headsmen.

            If you wanna ask him these questions personally, I have his tell #.



            P.S. I only gourd dance one time a year, during our ceremony.
            Last edited by WhoMe; 02-01-2006, 02:25 PM.
            Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

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            • #21
              Good Question WhoMe

              "What is this sanctioning bizness anyway?"
              That is a very good question. Damn good question, really.

              Everybody wants to be seen as "authentic" nowadays. I believe some of these groups have good intentions, some don't. For some, I think its about status. For some, I think its a poor mans social club.

              I don't know. I was raised in Lawton, as many of you know. Mostly around the old Comanche Gourd Clan. My Grandmother, who is no longer with us, was Kiowa. We attended Kiowa Gourd Clan functions, as well. I don't recall ever hearing anyone talk about "sanctioning". Or, those people dancing over there are "sanctioned". Never heard that until recently.

              I live in Northern Ok. and the tribes I dance with, always give their respects to the Kiowa people, and the Comanche as well.

              Personally, I am a member of the Kiowa Gourd Clan. I say that reverently, and with respect. I don't go around "sanctioning" anybody, I DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT. Its not my place. I know my place. I'm proud of my place. Its a good place to be. I'm young, and I have a lot to learn. But one thing I'm pretty sure of, this bizness of sanctioning is silly. Thats my OPINION anyway.

              I was kind of wondering too, could our Gourd dance be considered for the Indian Arts and Crafts Law???

              One more thought, I remember watching professional rasslin' when I was a kid, and the announcer would always say, "This match is "sanctioned" by the World Wrestling Federation. Hmmmmmm......
              Kio-Manche
              Oklahoma Proud!!!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Numunu1971
                ......Personally, I am a member of the Kiowa Gourd Clan. I say that reverently, and with respect. I don't go around "sanctioning" anybody, I DO NOT HAVE THAT RIGHT. Its not my place. I know my place. I'm proud of my place. Its a good place to be. I'm young, and I have a lot to learn. But one thing I'm pretty sure of, this bizness of sanctioning is silly.......

                Numunu,

                Ditto for me too!!!!

                ___


                Shawk,

                Are YOU a part of the Red Star Gourd Society? ? ?
                Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

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                • #23
                  really 4 sure?

                  r u really sure i can be coyote ugly? like named after the bar and the movie? really really
                  i got a name for you..... " Chief Numb Nuts" lol cant we all just get along.....i was poking fun of the website ok geez

                  Originally posted by Numunu1971
                  O.K.... you wanna cool name...???...How about rabbits foot? Or Albino raccoon? hmmmm.... Well, since your from New Mexico, how about Coyote Ugly?
                  SOUTHERN XTREME.....WE HERE NOW!!!!! www.myspace.com/southernxtremesingers

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by southern_xtreme2k5
                    ....i got a name for you..... " Chief Numb Nuts" ....

                    POPCORN TYME!!!
                    Last edited by WhoMe; 02-01-2006, 02:51 PM.
                    Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by WhoMe
                      Shawk,

                      Are YOU a part of the Red Star Gourd Society? ? ?

                      As I said, I belong to no gourd clan, society, or group. Good reply Numunu.

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                      • #26
                        Disclaimer: I'm not Kiowa and am not speaking for anyone other than myself.

                        I was introduced to gourd dancing about 15 years ago when I was taught about the dance by some great friends of mine from Carnegie. Subsequently, I was "brought into" the gourd arena and have gourd danced some in the last 15 years, although I do not consider myself a gourd dancer as I participate quite sporadically and not every one I attend.

                        I have no idea if I am "sanctioned" or not...they didn't tell me I was so I assume I'm not LOL

                        I have seen a lot of changes in the past 15 years from what I was taught about gourd dancing to what I see at pow wows today. Granted, all of these changes exist outside of Oklahoma so that may be the problem in and of itself.

                        In asking around, I've come to find out that there is/was a Red Star Gourd Society that did a LOT of good, but this group is not a part of that.

                        Now to my question...what about these other gourd dance groups that we see out there (White Star Gourd Society, Memphi Tia-piah, Texas Tia-piah, etc.)...are they legit?
                        I think everyone on this rez is addicted to Harry Potter...lol...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Dang, ANOTHER good question SingerD,



                          Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by southern_xtreme2k5
                            r u really sure i can be coyote ugly? like named after the bar and the movie? really really
                            i got a name for you..... " Chief Numb Nuts" lol cant we all just get along.....i was poking fun of the website ok geez
                            Hey, I'm with ya southern xtreme! Just havin' some fun. I'm glad to know, that you recognize my "chiefly" assets!! Heh, heh...Hope things are good your way....
                            Kio-Manche
                            Oklahoma Proud!!!

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                            • #29
                              everything....

                              everything is good out this way looking forward to area pws coming up, denver march, Santa Ana Star casino PW week before GON, bernalillo pw day before GON, and of course GON .................ok so on that webpage it says they howl like wolfs or dogs after each song>? so i think we should do the same after each post lol ..........also i wonder if they allow @ there lil lake?
                              SOUTHERN XTREME.....WE HERE NOW!!!!! www.myspace.com/southernxtremesingers

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Numunu1971
                                Hey, I'm with ya southern xtreme! Just havin' some fun. I'm glad to know, that you recognize my "chiefly" assets!! Heh, heh...Hope things are good your way....

                                roflmao @ chiefly assets!!!!!!!
                                sigpic


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