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  • New gourd dance society

    A veteran's group in my area recently formed a new gourd dance society.

    One of the members does not think it is right because they are not from gourd dancing tribes and he believes that they do not know what they are doing. He has brought this to my attention.

    Recently, I got a call from one of their leaders. I think he wants to talk about this gourd society.

    If you were me, what you say to him?
    Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

  • #2
    just reading your post it sounds like you know the answer, but are stalling cause your torn about giving it. I'm not able to answer because I don't have teachings about gourd dancing. I have been torn between my honest opinion & hurting feelings of people I respect before though. Maybe this person is asking you more to talk about how to have such a conversation politely then about needing your opinion.
    Suzze

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
      A veteran's group in my area recently formed a new gourd dance society.

      One of the members does not think it is right because they are not from gourd dancing tribes and he believes that they do not know what they are doing. He has brought this to my attention.

      Recently, I got a call from one of their leaders. I think he wants to talk about this gourd society.

      If you were me, what you say to him?
      Some that ask
      Some that dont ask
      Some that dont care to ask

      It comes down to this:
      Do you want your Name to be associated with the formation of this group that has good intentions but after the founding members lose interest they leave and the remaining members are clueless.

      LOL
      Tell them to come to Carnegie Downtown Park July 4th and ask permission
      Make sure they wear their Ballcaps...
      ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
      Till I Die!

      Comment


      • #4
        Follow up to this as I was thinking about it
        Only the Headsman of the Kiowa Gourd Clan/Societies can give permission
        ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
        Till I Die!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
          A veteran's group in my area recently formed a new gourd dance society.

          One of the members does not think it is right because they are not from gourd dancing tribes and he believes that they do not know what they are doing. He has brought this to my attention.

          Recently, I got a call from one of their leaders. I think he wants to talk about this gourd society.

          If you were me, what you say to him?
          Why did this member join this 'group' (for lack of a better word) if he feels the group doesn't know what it's doing?

          And WhoMe...if the other person wants to talk to you about the protocol of Gourd Dancing...zip your lips!

          I'm positive you will know the correct words to say.


          Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


          "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

          Mr. Rossie Freeman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Joe's Dad View Post
            Why did this member join this 'group' (for lack of a better word) if he feels the group doesn't know what it's doing?

            And WhoMe...if the other person wants to talk to you about the protocol of Gourd Dancing...zip your lips!

            I'm positive you will know the correct words to say.
            Joe's,

            This concerned person was already a member of the veteran's group/color guard. He doesn't feel that being a part of the gourd dance group is right without permission.

            I am not a headsman, nor do I have the right to say yea or nay.

            My concern is that I may be guilty by association if I speak to the leader.
            Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
              Joe's,



              I am not a headsman, nor do I have the right to say yea or nay.

              My concern is that I may be guilty by association if I speak to the leader.
              Perhaps you have answered your own question.......

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rez_hopper View Post
                Perhaps you have answered your own question.......
                I wished it were that easy....

                I am announcing a powwow this weekend and have been told there will be gourd dancing. The leader of the veteran's group is the head dancer for the powwow.

                I know the conversation is upcoming and cannot be avoided.
                Last edited by WhoMe; 10-01-2008, 11:40 AM.
                Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
                  I wished it were that easy....

                  I am announcing a powwow this weekend and have been told there will be gourd dancing. The leader of the veteran's group is the head dancer for the powwow.

                  I know the conversation is upcoming and cannot be avoided.
                  Very Ticklish situation full of problems

                  How do you comply with the wishes of your Own Gourd Organization that only have given permission to one tribe...

                  But at the same time you are asked to be MC and by not saying anything it could be construed that you are approving what they are doing

                  Well when all else fails....
                  Let the truth set you free
                  They may not like it, but you know in your heart what the answer is...
                  ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
                  Till I Die!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Josiah View Post
                    Very Ticklish situation full of problems

                    Let the truth set you free
                    They may not like it, but you know in your heart what the answer is...

                    Josi,

                    I often look at my father for inspiration particularly in situations such at this.

                    In reflecting back, there was a time when gourd dancing was introduced to the part of the country where I grew up.

                    I think my father could/should have said something in the way of advice or guidance. But he never did. Back then, I think that people would have listened to him.

                    Today some of the gourd dances where I grew up are are bigger than the ones in Oklahoma with over 100 gourd dancers. The protocol at these gourd dances are quite different from Oklahoma.

                    Needless to say, this is a touchy situation.
                    Last edited by WhoMe; 10-01-2008, 01:42 PM.
                    Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Josiah View Post
                      Follow up to this as I was thinking about it
                      Only the Headsman of the Kiowa Gourd Clan/Societies can give permission
                      So WhoMe...can u weasel your way out of saying anything by having somebody who has proper permission from a Gourd Clan/Society get up and talk?


                      Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


                      "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

                      Mr. Rossie Freeman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Joe's Dad View Post
                        So WhoMe...can u weasel your way out of saying anything by having somebody who has proper permission from a Gourd Clan/Society get up and talk?

                        There is nobody around here that can speak with authority on behalf of any of the gourd clans/societies.

                        I don't think I have the right to say anything.

                        I am not the gourd dance police.

                        I am not an elder.

                        I am not Sam I Am. I do not like green eggs and ham.
                        Last edited by WhoMe; 10-01-2008, 01:58 PM.
                        Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
                          A veteran's group in my area recently formed a new gourd dance society.

                          One of the members does not think it is right because they are not from gourd dancing tribes and he believes that they do not know what they are doing. He has brought this to my attention.

                          Recently, I got a call from one of their leaders. I think he wants to talk about this gourd society.

                          If you were me, what you say to him?
                          This is a tricky one. Perhaps this would help; its not the same scenario, but it kind of boils down to the same situation.

                          I was recently asked to lead the Singing portion of a Memorial Service for a Native Person who walked on out East. I was told by one of the organizers that they planned to have me sing in a situation that is very far outside the norm insofar as traditon is concerned. I prayed on this for a time and the answer I got was clear. I had to respectfully decline the invite.

                          As my Daddy used to say, "Be it big or be it small, do it the RIGHT way, or not at all."

                          Give it some time and the answer will present itself. Hang in there!
                          Last edited by tsuj510; 10-01-2008, 07:13 PM. Reason: 'Cause I dont want to sound bad...
                          Because of our treaty status, the distinction of being 'Cherokee' is a status of citizenship, not a racial issue.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
                            Josi,

                            I often look at my father for inspiration particularly in situations such at this.

                            In reflecting back, there was a time when gourd dancing was introduced to the part of the country where I grew up.

                            I think my father could/should have said something in the way of advice or guidance. But he never did. Back then, I think that people would have listened to him.

                            Today some of the gourd dances where I grew up are are bigger than the ones in Oklahoma with over 100 gourd dancers. The protocol at these gourd dances are quite different from Oklahoma.

                            Needless to say, this is a touchy situation.
                            Yes I can totally understand that.
                            For the most part we are a polite people and dont feel its our place to police what others do...

                            At the same time, like it or not You are looked upon as an Authority otherwise they would not seek you for counsel

                            Now what...
                            Last edited by Josiah; 10-01-2008, 03:01 PM.
                            ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
                            Till I Die!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Big D, the truth will set you free. I'd pretty much tell the man what you're saying here, with kid gloves on if you have to. If they are going to dance, and they probably are, they ought to know where the dance comes from, do it right, and acknowledge the history, with the proper protocols and etiquette in place. As you say, you are not the gourd police or an elder, so just say so, as you've done here. There is declining to speak. Good luck on your decision.

                              Comment

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