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How many dancers, are currently dancing without a permit? I am, i dont have my permit yet, but is it really necissary to get one? I mean if your using it just for pow wows?
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I'm interested more in self determination than gender equity. In other words, changing white men for white woman in the structures of power, does nothing to transform the opression in my community.
"You need to find yourself a girl, mate... Or, perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch, are you? [looks down]"
-Captain Jack Sparrow -
Yes
Good Questions.
If you can, take some time and check the archives as this subject has been discussed many times here at powwows.com.
If you really think about the Big Picture - there are many dancers without permits. Is it important? - yes to some and no to others. It can be a very subjective issue to many. But you have to think how important is it to you?
If you travel a lot or plan on doing a great deal of traveling, it is wise to have the permits. Anything can happen at anytime.Last edited by Tom Iron Eagle; 10-13-2004, 10:35 AM. -
Yeah it is a good idea to get a permit cause I know to many people that get pulled over for something like speeding and then getting searched and their feathers get taken away. Even traveling across the border sometimes they give you a hard time at customs.Comment
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Originally posted by Tom Iron Eagle
I have to agree with you on that one, better be safe then sorry, from what I have heard, those fish and gamers there in the US can be pretty nasty about those things.
Its a TOTALLY different story here in Canada. There are no such regulations when it comes to possession of Eagle feathers.
Anyone care to do a trade? I have acess to all kinds of feathers, just thought I would throw that out there, for you Canadians that is. Pm me if you are interested:)Comment
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Yeah, but what about the non federally recognized tribes? They arent recognized as indian, but they are. Does that mean they cant use feathers for religious or ceremonial use?I'm interested more in self determination than gender equity. In other words, changing white men for white woman in the structures of power, does nothing to transform the opression in my community.
"You need to find yourself a girl, mate... Or, perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch, are you? [looks down]"
-Captain Jack SparrowComment
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Sitcky Situation
RedThunder,
Well you hit it and asked the really strange question. That is the one question that really makes for a very sticky situation.
As far as culturally, yes you are entitled to your feathers. As far as leagally well the answer is yes and no. How? It can actually vary from Tribe to Tribe and from State to State even with Federal Law.
Example 1: A Native that is not of a BIA Tribe is charged with having Eagle Feathers without permits. That is both a State and Federal Offense. The Native fights the charges in court and wins based on cultural and religious reasons. Now the Native is allowed the feathers regardless of any permits or BIA status due to double jeapardy with the Justice System.
Example 2: A Native is not of a BIA Tribe but the Tribe is State Recognized. The Native is charged with having Eagle Feathers without permits which is a State and Federal Offense. The Native fights the charges but only wins the State Charges but not the Federal Charges. This becomes a "Catch 22" or "Double Standard" as the Native can have the feathers according to the State but the feathers are still in violation of Federal Law.
Example 3: A Non-Native has been practicing a Native Religion for well over 20 years. The Non-Native is charged with having Eagle Feathers without permits. The Non-Native fights the case based on Freedom of Religion. Even though the person is Non-Native, they have been practicing their religion for over 20 years and the law as written violates their freedom of religion. The courts agree and now the Non-Native is allowed feathers due to the Justice System and not the BIA.
These three are real cases that are listed in the Encyclopedia of Amercian Indian Religions section on Legal Cases involving Native Religious Freedom.
There are many, many more every year related to Feathers, Hair Length, Clothing, etc.
So if possible, get the permits. If not be careful and make sure you have a great attorney that knows Native American Law.Last edited by Tom Iron Eagle; 10-13-2004, 02:44 PM.Comment
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Hey thanks Tom (and everyone else, who contributed to this thread), You really cleared up a whole lot of foggyness.....I appreciate it!I'm interested more in self determination than gender equity. In other words, changing white men for white woman in the structures of power, does nothing to transform the opression in my community.
"You need to find yourself a girl, mate... Or, perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch, are you? [looks down]"
-Captain Jack SparrowComment
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You're telling us ey? I heard they can be really hard on people if they do get caught....Originally posted by Tom Iron EagleComment
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I would be very careful if you do not have a permit. I have friends who are not federally recognized and use handpaints or turkey feathers. They don't risk it becasue of a major feather bust at a Gulfport, MS. This happened some time int he 80s or early 90s, but I was still hearing about it when I left last year. Good lluckComment
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I am a member of a Federally recognized tribe, but I do not have a permit. So how does one go about obtaining a permit? Any help would be most appreciated.Comment
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Other Points
You are so right Ciso Geek.
Even with permits, some DNR and Customs Officials are real hard asses about everything.
I also need to mention some other very important points.
Don't rely on being Federally Recognized as your right to have Feathers - that is a grave ignorance of the law. Even if one is Federally Recognized it is not a substitute for the actual permits. Granted most Federal Indians are not botherd as much because of that Federal Status but it is not a blanket by any means.
And, even with Federal Status, the DNR can still charge one in violation of other Feathers under separate State Laws dealing with other birds of prey and even song birds.
To get a permit:
Contact the U.S. Fish and Widlife for the application. Get it filled out and then it is a waiting game. Or if you already have feathers - you need to prove several things. But whatever you do - do no indulge any information to any U.S. Officer or DNR Officer.
AND FINALLY:
Be careful and very cautious - both the U.S. Fish and Wildlife and States DNR organizations have secret and confidential informants working for them.Last edited by Tom Iron Eagle; 10-13-2004, 11:07 PM.Comment
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dang now im just worried, cuz i got a eagle fan.....damn....its tuff being an ndn.......I'm interested more in self determination than gender equity. In other words, changing white men for white woman in the structures of power, does nothing to transform the opression in my community.
"You need to find yourself a girl, mate... Or, perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch, are you? [looks down]"
-Captain Jack SparrowComment
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Dam
Those HARD HEADS!EastcoastComment
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I know it man. Just think about it, its just another way for the US to decrease the amooount of indians, or indians practicing their religion. Like the blood quantum ****!I'm interested more in self determination than gender equity. In other words, changing white men for white woman in the structures of power, does nothing to transform the opression in my community.
"You need to find yourself a girl, mate... Or, perhaps the reason you practice three hours a day is that you already found one and are otherwise incapable of wooing said strumpet. You're not a eunuch, are you? [looks down]"
-Captain Jack SparrowComment
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its a good idea to get a permit even for powwow use onley cuz i had a friend who the gov came in there home and tried to take there eagle feathers away from them.Powwows my life styleComment
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