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  • Tibiki Kinew
    replied
    Hey Suzze! I agree completely here with you.

    The great Missionaries that brought disease and corruption are not to be blessed and put on pedastals for bringing christ to the "savage/heathen" ,,, I always thought that they were the savages for the treatment worldwide to the pure people that did nothing more than mind their own business!

    When I think of the crap that the church has done for centuries to aboriginal people of the planet it makes me want to scream "Open your eyes and see the damage you are causing!"

    Leave a comment:


  • SuzzeQ4
    replied
    Originally posted by Dance 42 View Post
    Kevin Locke is Kevin Locke. No one can speak for him any more than he can speak for us. he does not speak for all Lakota much less all Indian nations.

    It has never been the goal of any Indian nation to "spread the knowledge" we are not a missionary people... anyone who says that it is their goal to spread Indian wisdom is a fraud.

    We do not spread our traditions, and culture to outsiders... That is not something we do, especially today. Non Indians are certainly allowed to watch and even encouraged to participate in some of our social functions. I have even seen some sincere non-Indians become members of communities but that takes years of living with and working with Indian people.

    Are you sure you are not wasicu? wasicu does not mean white man... it means fat taker. You may not know or understand but your actions here are very much the actions of a wasicu. You do not know the boundaries, you do not know what is appropriate and not appropriate. You can not learn this from books, seminars, and movies, you can not learn this from a website or the entire internet. You can not learn this in Turkey.

    Yes we are proud of our cultures and we are working to protect them and strengthen them for future generations. We have and continue to have far to much interference from outsiders. If you want to help us, then come to our social functions, eat our food, buy real Indian art, from the artist, Indian made items or from Indian owned businesses... and most of all when an Indian person says stop.... do not push back.

    You are not entitled to know "everything" about us. You do not have a right to participate in every aspect of our cultures.
    Good words, very well said. On the issue of not being a missionary people I would like to expand on this.

    Some religions are open to all, these religions (most notably christianity) have missionaries because it is there belief to recruit people into their religion to beilive as they do.
    Some religions are cultural based & are more a spiritual aspect of a specific culture then a religion (for example any indigenous culture). Such belief systems do not recruit people because it is something you are born into, & in some may marry into. The largest example of a culture based religion would be the Jewish religion. You can't convert into a Jew, either you were born one or not although you can marry into the Jewish culture / faith. Like our spiritual beliefs the Jewish people have an offshoot of people (mostly not Jewish by blood) who have their own little group that converts people in. We to have a few NDN's running around with a bunch of non-ndn's doing similar stuff. These types & groups can't make you NDN, or Jewish, or African, or Asian or anything else, you are or you are not. I hope by using more understood poplulations I helped to get our point across without disrespecting anyone
    Suzze

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  • owlsong
    replied
    Please respect our elders!

    Please do try to respect those teaching passed down by our elders. Simple rule: if you can't, don't!

    Leave a comment:


  • Dance 42
    replied
    Originally posted by theguyfromtatooine View Post
    I understand, this is your culture and you must keep it. But what's wrong wtih sharing your culture with sincere people? If it is something wrong, what do you think of Kevin Locke? He introduces native culture all around the world.

    Kevin Locke is Kevin Locke. No one can speak for him any more than he can speak for us. he does not speak for all Lakota much less all Indian nations.

    It has never been the goal of any Indian nation to "spread the knowledge" we are not a missionary people... anyone who says that it is their goal to spread Indian wisdom is a fraud.

    We do not spread our traditions, and culture to outsiders... That is not something we do, especially today. Non Indians are certainly allowed to watch and even encouraged to participate in some of our social functions. I have even seen some sincere non-Indians become members of communities but that takes years of living with and working with Indian people.

    Are you sure you are not wasicu? wasicu does not mean white man... it means fat taker. You may not know or understand but your actions here are very much the actions of a wasicu. You do not know the boundaries, you do not know what is appropriate and not appropriate. You can not learn this from books, seminars, and movies, you can not learn this from a website or the entire internet. You can not learn this in Turkey.

    Yes we are proud of our cultures and we are working to protect them and strengthen them for future generations. We have and continue to have far to much interference from outsiders. If you want to help us, then come to our social functions, eat our food, buy real Indian art, from the artist, Indian made items or from Indian owned businesses... and most of all when an Indian person says stop.... do not push back.

    You are not entitled to know "everything" about us. You do not have a right to participate in every aspect of our cultures.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kaina1128
    replied
    Deleted
    Last edited by Kaina1128; 11-14-2018, 08:22 PM. Reason: Deleted

    Leave a comment:


  • SuzzeQ4
    replied
    OK if you beleive that you respect our people then you will listen to what we have to say & then respect our answers, I will start & others can add.
    Yes you are a Turk, not white BUT you are not NDN. There are things we are willing to share & things we are not.
    Dancing in our regalia is special to us, we like to keep it as ours. HOWEVER we have intertribal dances during our powwows where non-NDN people can join us (in their clothes). This is part of how we share at powwow.
    Those who respect us except this, come visit the powwow, buy good food & beautiful things from the vendors. They keep their hands off our regalia, ask polite questions and may politely ask for a picture, Maybe we say yes, maybe we say no. Then they join in at the intertribals, listen to the MC & follow the directions & learn what we are willing to share. They even get to go to a sunrise ceremony something we have chosen to share. And go home having learned something new & with good memories.
    Those who don't respect us snap pictures without asking, take pictures of our children & during ceremony. They ask questions as though we are their for their entertainment. They get put out when told no & they go home copy are regalia & return the next year calling themselves things like "beautiful crystal buffalo spirit" etc.
    Second yes there are substance abuse issues. All us many NDN's who are sober are aware of this & there are many NDN programs for this. Learn about something else. Here's one. I think it's pretty amazing that despite all of our cultural & spiritual differences (amoungst our NDN Nations) we can get together & celebrate with each other. If a few other religions could except the similarties between them we would have alot less wars in this world. Or you could look at the bigger picture of social issues (like certain government policies, actions & in-actions) and educate yourself about the sort of changes we would like to see. How about mining issues, the price of food up north, etc Or the issue of cultural appropriation. I think many would agree with me that we get tired of "oh you poor NDN's I understand & feel for you & you substance abuse problems" Yes it's there, no one should pretend it isn't but there are other issues.
    Ok so now I hand it over to the next person, and remember, you said you respected us so please respect our answers & we will give them in a respectful manner.
    Thanks - Suzze
    Thought of something else. It is not just you. My husband is Mohawk, I am Lakota, I don't go to longhouse, I know his stories, I don't tell them, his Elder invites me (at socials) to learn some Mohawk songs on the water drum, but I don't then go off & sing these elsewhere because I respect his people.
    Last edited by SuzzeQ4; 10-09-2008, 10:22 AM.

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  • theguyfromtatooine
    replied
    Regalia Advice

    I'm not talking about western movies or something like that. I'm talking about the Battle of Black Hills, the massacres of Wa****a, Sand Creek and Wounded Knee. I admire artists like Gordon Tootoosis and Russel Means. And i want Leonard Peltier to be free!

    Leave a comment:


  • theguyfromtatooine
    replied
    I understand, this is your culture and you must keep it. But what's wrong wtih sharing your culture with sincere people? If it is something wrong, what do you think of Kevin Locke? He introduces native culture all around the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • theguyfromtatooine
    replied
    I live in Turkey, but i have some information about the problems of native people. Alcoholism, drug usage, unemployment and suicide. And i know that Native American reservations in the USA have the highest unemployment rates.
    I know "the stolen generations" and the keepers of native cultures. White people humiliated them and called them "blanket indians".
    Here is something else. All my resources are books and internet. I would be happy if i had an opportunity to meet tribal elders. Maybe one day i can visit the USA and Canada. Then i can visit Black Hills and Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump.

    Leave a comment:


  • theguyfromtatooine
    replied
    I feel like an attorney since i joined the site. In fact, i hate trying to explain my thoughts in such cases. First of all, i'm interested in Native American cultures since my childhood. I'm not an expert, but i know that native people have a very rich heritage. I read about famous leaders, such as Sitting Bull (should have i said Tatanka Yotanka?) and Black Kettle (should have i said Otavalo?).
    I read articles about "Okipa" and sun dance ceremonies. And once again you should remember that i'm not a "wasicu". Take care.

    Leave a comment:


  • theguyfromtatooine
    replied
    I respect your culture, i don't want to buy or steal it. If i were a Native American descendent, there wouldn't be any problem, am i wrong?

    Leave a comment:


  • _wuliechsin_
    replied
    Originally posted by Dance 42 View Post
    .................................................. ...........................I know you are probably thinking "I want to help preserve those ways." That is not for you to do, it is for us to do.

    I am not telling you to stop learning... I am asking you to show a small bit of respect and understand that there are limits.
    Well said, couldn't said it any better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dance 42
    replied
    Originally posted by theguyfromtatooine View Post
    First, i like Lakota tongue. Second, i like plains culture a lot. Unfortunately, i have never been to a pow wow before.
    P.S.: I'm interested in plains and northwestcoast cultures. And, i'm a TURK, not an American.
    I know you are not an American. That makes your quest all that more ridiculous. If American people do not even know us... how can a Turk?

    The point we are trying to make here is that our dances, our language and our cultures are ours. Not yours, not playthings. Imitation of our ways is offensive to us.

    Sure you can learn our language and study our people but to become a dancer? By living in Europe how can you even know that what you have seen and read is even real and not the typical romanticized BS that is so popular? You have never even been to a pow wow and want to dance? do you not see how ridiculous you sound?

    for over 100 years the American government has tried to destroy Lakota culture. Non-Indian people have taken even what remains of our culture/traditions and twisted it to their own needs. Our culture is ours not yours or anyone elses to take. The Boy Scouts have been in the forefront of the current cultural assault on Indian people.

    I know you are probably thinking "I want to help preserve those ways." That is not for you to do, it is for us to do.

    I am not telling you to stop learning... I am asking you to show a small bit of respect and understand that there are limits.

    Leave a comment:


  • SuzzeQ4
    replied
    Originally posted by theguyfromtatooine View Post
    First, i like Lakota tongue. Second, i like plains culture a lot. Unfortunately, i have never been to a pow wow before.
    P.S.: I'm interested in plains and northwestcoast cultures. And, i'm a TURK, not an American.
    Yes and as a Turk you have something in common with Americans...your not NDN!
    As a Turk you have your own rich culture to learn about & be proud of. I know I've travelled there. I went as an NDN (cause thats who I am) seeing another culture, not becoming another culture. If you care about our cukture and people you won't beome one of those vultures trying to rip off our culture. Learn about our currant plights with our governments, about how neither the Canadian or American governments are willing to sighn the UN's declaration of Indigenous rights, how they ignore our treaty rights etc & educate others about these things but respect the fact that there are things about our culture we want to keep to our selves. This isn't your fault, this is because we have all these yahoos here on this continent playing NDN like the boyscouts. It has become a danger to our own people. With so many of our people removed from the culture & people by the government (as children) these people grow up & try to find their way back to the culture. I was one of these children And it was sheer luck that on my journey back I met actual NDN's to bring me back to the culture. To many get swallowed up by these wannabes who are like vultures & then they never know who they truly are. We have all seen this. Sure you probably won't do this because you live in Turkey, but at this point we can't be to careful. Please start by understanding this and respecting this.
    Suzze

    Leave a comment:


  • theguyfromtatooine
    replied
    Nice joke.

    Leave a comment:

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