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Roaches, Mandans, What else?

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  • Roaches, Mandans, What else?

    Ok what other headresses besides Roaches and Mandans appropriate for this style. As PowwowBum49 said in another post, fiber roach kits are not worth it. After making one and comparing it to a friend's old one, he is correct. In SE Louisiana some Traditional dancers wore bandannas, Is that appropriate, especially since I am now in NC? Also where are some good places, besides Crazy Crow, to get the porcupine hair.
    Thanks for the info,
    Jerry

  • #2
    Roaches and mandans are pretty much it............I don't reccomend the bandana. I am a northern tradish dancer (obviously...lol) so I wear a roach. I don't claim to know much about southern regalia but overall I would say a bandana isn't appropriate dance clothing. I may be wrong though. Hope this helps.

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    • #3
      Oh I forgot to say- a good place to get all crafts is Sioux Trading is South Dakota. They have good prices, a great staff and everyone there knows their stuff to help you get what you need.

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      • #4
        By FAR, the most commond headdress you'll see is the roach! To answer one question and give you an opinion, I don't feel that a bandana is an acceptable headdress. I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't suggest it.

        Like I said, it's just an opinion.

        I'm sure you've looked into this, but you really should be careful if you're considering a "mop-top." The roach is by far the most universal headdress seen.

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        • #5
          Thanks for the input. Like I said, I just finished a fiber kit and it looks crappy. In about 2-3 months, once I am finnished my beading project, I am getting a porky kit or materials and make one before i go back to school.
          thnaks agaqin
          J

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          • #6
            GJJudd

            if you do go with the kit, DONT go to crazycrow.com. they sell a lot of stuff made in china.. I'd recommend seeing if you can purchase one from here, or on ebay first, may be a bit more expensive, but will be worth it.

            I bought a bustlekit from crazycrow, only to find out the feathers are ugly and look like crap, the beeded center piece was made in china (say's so on the back) and it's materials aren't that good. so now I get to go to a real native distributor and get a real kit.

            but thats my 2 cents.
            Ezaasakwaadek-bkwezhigan ndaa miijin

            ~Though I wear a shirt and tie
            I'm still part red man deep inside!~
            <Paul Revere and the Raiders>

            A very wise old Chief (Archie Mosay) once said to listen carefully when a White man tells you specifically that he won't do this or that, because more often than not he is telling you EXACTLY what he IS about to do.

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            • #7
              Does Anyone know if PowwowBum49 sells kits? It will take me until MAy to complete the beading. By that time I should have the money for a kit. I would prefer to make my own beacuse, 1 I am a poor college graduate waiting to get back to s chool and on a tight budget, and 2 it means alot more when you make the item.
              Jerry

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              • #8
                The thing is....it takes a LOT of skill and experience to tie a porky roach and make it look good. You're already familiar with how much labor is involved. Tying porky hair is a skill. The stuff is coarse and stiff (which is why it's used) and the technique is different from tying fiber.

                As for the statement about "making it makes the item mean more,"....usually that is true. I made 75% of my dance clothes. The beadwork, which I poured more time into than anything, DOES mean the most to me. However, being as difficult as roach tying is, I leave THAT part to the pros. I've seen MANY people buy kits with the best of intentions and tie roaches that turned out not-so-great.

                That being said, I've made bustles, done beadwork, made mocs, done quillwork--pretty much everything you can think of on a traditional outfit. Tying roaches is one thing I will happily PAY for so that I can get one that looks good.

                Roaches really won't wear out, if you take good care of them. Take the time, save the money, and invest in a nice roach. I learned beadwork, quillwork, featherwork, etc. so that I wouldn't have to pay through the nose for them. Tying roaches is another thing all together to me. I'll pay the pros to tie my roaches. Why? Because I know I don't have the skill to make a roach look right, and don't have the patience to dedicate the necessary time. (and a lot of people say I have quite a bit) With all the items I CAN make, I WON'T tie a porky roach. I just won't do it.

                If you can AT ALL swing it, take the time, save the money, and buy a nice roach. I think you'll be glad you did.

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                • #9
                  Why buy a kit??? You can by premade bases or tie your own. You can buy deer hair already dyed and you can buy porky hair from many places. NocBay, Crazy Crow, etc. so why buy the kit, it's no cheaper!!! I have not made a roach and don't plan on it. Sounds like to big of a pain in the @ss, I may change my mind. But everything else I have found out what I need and then made it. If you need directions there are videos and books on making a roach.

                  So why buy a kit and worry about the contents and what you are getting, when you can make your own "kit"?????
                  The things you are doing today are the traditions of twenty-five years from now.
                  -Daryl Baldwin: Miami


                  https://www.facebook.com/SpottedeagleFans

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                  • #10
                    Just to put my 2 cents in.

                    If you can do beading, ribbon work, or fingerweaving, then I suggest giving roach making a try. The primary skill needed is patience, and careful attention to what you are doing.

                    There just isn't a lot of folks around to talk about it. Except on this site! Some very experienced folks here.

                    Now I've only made six roaches. But I have learned from each one. First off, determine what type of roach you want. Different regions/tribes have differing roaches. Flat, straight up, or somewhere inbetween. Length also comes into play. As well as the style of dance you will be doing. Look at various roaches, and maybe ask a dancer to look at his roach. Buy him dinner and talk about it with the dancer.

                    The Scott Evans book is a nice start to show you the basic techniques, as is the Video that is available. But once these are learned the rest can only be found in "real life".

                    One hint. Buy a bit more hair than you think you will need. This allows for a fuller, longer haired roach. Plan carefully so the transition from short to long hair is smooth and looks nice over the the whole roach. Me, I sort the hair down to the 1/4 inch varience. Also ask your supplier to match the color, and maybe specify lighter or darker hair. Mixing colors looks odd.

                    When you start off, take some of the short, nasty hair, and practice tying it on a throw away thread. This will give you an idea of how much hair is needed for a given length. I use small bundles of 10-12 hairs. Avoid the desire to type larger bundles. It takes longer, but the roach will fall apart.

                    Same for the deer tail. Determine your colors. Practice with some spare hair, and give it time. Again same for the base.

                    Have fun. When you tie on a roach that you made yourself, it will mean that much more....

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                    • #11
                      The crazy crow kits are not very good. You get a rope base, porky hair, deer tails, and instructions all of which can be gotten from other dealers, or from crazy crow individualy. I bought 2 ounces of porky hair and got some pretty good stuff from them. Thier yarn bases arnt that bad. The only thing worth getting from the kit is instructions. Which you can probobly get on the internet for free or both of scott evan's books have instructions on how to tie and measure.

                      As for other head gear, Ive mostly seen roaches, mop tops, and animal skins(wolves, coyotes and ocasionaly foxes, badger and just about everything else on little kids) By far the roach is the most widely used and you probobly wont be challenged for wearing one unlike with the mop top.

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                      • #12
                        I want to thank everyone for their input. Being the unemployed college graduate that I am, I am going to save up my money over the next few months and buy one. By the time I have the money saved up for supplies, I'll be back in school with no freetime, so wait a little longer and but it.
                        Jerry

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                        • #13
                          Just a roach question,,,would the long hair from the moose work?????? Serious I am asking, any one try it yet???
                          Listen to my heart, not just my mouth! The most powerfull thing we can do is,,,share,,, if we don't it dies with us.

                          It is the year of the bear, I am sharpening my claws and will no longer tollerate harrassment.

                          Born in Winnipeg raised in the Pikwakanagan, Deutschland was never home! Army brat that had no choice in a parents duties to home and country. I Too Serve our flag and work for the uniform.
                          Stand behind our troops or stand IN FRONT of them.

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                          • #14
                            Moose hair works great-most of we use back home is moose hair (we shoot more moose than porcupines).

                            The noc-bay roach kit is pretty good. $55 gets you the materials to make a good 12" head roach and it comes with an instructional video as well as the instructions on paper. The porky hair stands about 6 inches tall and the kit comes with one row of deer hair (outside usually, although you can request enough hair for two roows at an additional charge) with 5 colors to choose from. I forget what the shipping charge is off hand - but the kit weighs under 5 lbs.

                            Happy tying!
                            Mii iw keyaa ezhi-ditibiseyaan

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                            • #15
                              I have done moose hair tufting in the past and enjoyed doing that. So moose hair will do?? I can get tons of it , just have to go and pull it off the hides. That is a lot of work in itself but why waste the hair!!! I still make fishing lures using moose hair! Also I make ladies hair barrettes with deer or moose hair. So with roaches is there a special shape or are they all the same basic configuration as here??? I could start making them as a side line instead of just carving all the time!!
                              Listen to my heart, not just my mouth! The most powerfull thing we can do is,,,share,,, if we don't it dies with us.

                              It is the year of the bear, I am sharpening my claws and will no longer tollerate harrassment.

                              Born in Winnipeg raised in the Pikwakanagan, Deutschland was never home! Army brat that had no choice in a parents duties to home and country. I Too Serve our flag and work for the uniform.
                              Stand behind our troops or stand IN FRONT of them.

                              Comment

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